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Episode #65: Low Level Lasers in Cosmetic Surgery and Beyond with Dr. Robert Jackson

Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody Dr. Chad Woolner here with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells. And on today’s episode of the laser light show, we have a special guest, Dr. Robert Jackson, a board-certified cosmetic surgeon out of Indianapolis. We’re so excited to have him here. So let’s get started.

 

Transcript

Speakers: 

Dr. Andrew Wells

Dr. Chad Woolner

Dr. Robert Jackson

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show. 

Learn more about the metabolic benefits of Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) in our blog  All About Lipid (Fat) Metabolism in Easy-to-Understand Terms for Your Patients

 

Dr. Robert Jackson: It’s good to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Chad Woolner: You bet. So you’re based out of Indianapolis. Is that correct?

Dr. Robert Jackson: That is correct.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Fantastic. How long have you been doing this for?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Actually, Noblesville. It’s just a suburb of Indianapolis. Okay, how long? Surgery probably longer than you guys are old. I’ve been practicing cosmetic surgery for over 35 years.

Dr. Chad Woolner: I would imagine you’ve seen a lot of changes and innovation over the years in terms of tools, techniques, procedures.

Dr. Robert Jackson: We certainly have. Here’s safer equipment, safer procedures. We’ve learned how to do things better to make it a lot better for the patients and make it so they can get back to their lifestyle a little quicker. And my job’s trying to make America Beautiful. And that makes people happy.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. That’s fantastic. So maybe tell us a little bit about how you got hooked up with Erchonia? How did that whole relationship start?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Well, many years ago, at one of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery meetings, I was introduced to Steve Shanks and one of the other Erchonia brothers. And they were talking about this handheld laser. It was a 635-nanometer laser at that time. And we all thought it was kind of snake oil or, you know, stuff that people just go around selling like water to make you have Mickey healthy, you know? Yeah. But anyhow, since I was a kid, I’ve never really been that flexible. And I could never touch my toes. And so anyhow, they came up to our hotel room where another guy was having some problems. And they treated his pain with a low-level laser. And then they, I was telling them about the fact that I said that thing can make me touch my toes. I believe in it. And so Steve ran the thing up and down my back a few times. Sure enough, I’ve been over and I could touch my toes. Well, maybe there is something, maybe there is something to this. But at that time, I was really involved with liposuction. And there was a doctor in Colombia by the name of Rodrigo Neeraj, who had done some work with Erchonia laser. His wife, Clara, was a radiologist, and they had done some pretty high-powered research on using the low-level handheld laser prior to doing liposuction. And then they went back and actually did some high-powered radiology testing and studying what happened at the cellular level. And they saw that the membrane of the cells kind of broke and allowed the fat cells to emulsify. So one of the reps that was working at that time for Erchonia happened to be the brother of another rep that worked for another company that I was very good friends with. And he said, Would you let my brother bring this thing up and try it when you’re doing a liposuction case? And I thought, well, yeah, people are gonna laugh at me, they bring this red light in. And, in fact, one of the doctors actually did. He said, Why don’t you just pull your truck up here and turn them, turn the taillights on and probably do the same thing. So anyway, it was kind of interesting because I had a patient who I had done liposuction on before. And I had done it in places that were not as painful as please, I was going to do it at this point. And so they brought their laser in, and Steve and someone else, and they came in, they treated the patient before I did the liposuction. And when I walked into the recovery room after the procedure, she said to me, ” Dr. Jackson, what did you do differently?” I said, “What do you mean, did I do anything? I didn’t do anything different.” Oh, you must have done something different because it doesn’t hurt like it did before. So with that, we did a research program with about five of us, and we tested the laser with liposuction, and we found that the fat came up a little bit more emulsified, you could actually see a difference in the way the fat was coming out. Nowadays, there are other things that do emulsify fat, such as the Vaser, which is an ultrasonic treatment that will emulsify fat, but we were getting that kind of result with the Zerona. Back. This was probably 20 years ago, maybe. And so with that, I became involved, and we did a number of research projects with them. So anyway, then later, they asked me to use the Zerona and not do liposuction to see what would happen to the fat. And with that, we had a goal, you had to reach at least three reductions of three and a half inches in six weeks, on the hips, thighs, and waist. And we hit that there were almost five of us doing the research project. And those of us who are in the northern parts of the states got really good results. There was a guy in Florida who did not get very good results. And typical of the Erchonia Corporation, they wanted to figure out why that was. So they had scientists working with them at the time. And he said it may possibly be due to dehydration. So because of that, they brought some patients in, gave them IV fluids before they were on a treatment. And they found that the success rate jumped up by 30%. Wow. So it became obvious that if you’re going to do this Zerona and help people lose weight, they need to stay hydrated. And so that now is part of the protocol. So those are just a couple of things that I’ve done with the Zerona people or they are gonna have people in the past.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing.

Dr. Andrew Wells: Just to kind of, just for some context, you mentioned 3.5 inches in certain areas in the body. How does that compare to a typical liposuction treatment?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Well, it’s not as good, of course. I mean, liposuction, you’re taking out a lot more fat, but it’s also invasive. Whereas Zerona, I have had, I have had people who lost up to 15 inches in the same way just with this Zerona. But patients have some certain criteria they have to follow. They have to, as I say, drink a lot of water, we’d like them to take about 60 ounces of water a day just to kind of keep them well hydrated. They cannot drink alcohol because of alcohol. I’m leaving a major amount of alcohol during that time because it interferes with the fat being absorbed and going out through the liver. So we advise him to exercise, and we have a criteria now that we’ve come up with because of that. But is it liposuction? No, but it’s not invasive either. So many people prefer that.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, what’s so cool too here is we learn about this research with these lasers. And, here we are talking to one of the principal researchers in this research. I think that’s super cool to hear because we learned all about this, we got ours around at our clinic a little over a year and a half ago, I think. And we’ve seen amazing results at our clinic with it. And it’s just cool to hear now we’re talking with one of the principal Docs involved and some of the initial research, which is just so cool. What were you gonna say Andrew?

Dr. Andrew Wells: So are you, Dr. Jackson, are you using Zerona and lasers for all of your cosmetic procedures now? Or is it just geared mainly toward your fat loss patients?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Not all of them, but for fat loss patients for sure. And post-op, we use it for pain. We use it a lot. And then I also have the toenail fungus laser, which we use all the time. And we’ve gotten excellent results with that. I don’t know if you’ve talked about that on this show or not. But it’s an absolutely wonderful device. We also did at one point, a study with the combination of the 635-nanometer and a 535-nanometer laser for cellulite. And we got some results that cellulite is a little tougher to treat. But we did get a number of patients who got marked improvement with it. I think I’ve always liked the Erchonia people, though, and I think you mentioned this earlier that they have FDA clearance for all this stuff. And they never put anything on the market unless they get the FDA marketing and clearance. And a lot of companies don’t do that. So I think that’s one of the things that’s always impressed me about the Shanks family and the Erchonia Corporation.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s especially the case with many of if not the vast majority of other laser companies out there is they’re content to just go to market without those things. And yeah, obviously, you know, they’ll do all sorts of other various, you know, approaches in their marketing, but it’s very, very clear that Erchonia has really worked hard to obtain number one, the FDA clearances, but number two continue forward with ongoing research as well. And so that’s something that’s been cool to hear, not only from them but from doctors who have been involved with a lot of that research yourself included.

Dr. Robert Jackson: You said you have this Zerona in your office, what are the lasers that they ever have in your office?

Dr. Chad Woolner: We have the FX 405. The Zerona obviously, and then we just got a couple of months back to the base station, we have to accelerate the GDL and the EB RL. And we have just seen incredible things with all of the lasers, it’s been really cool to the with regarding this Zerona the most we’ve ever seen in one treatment. And again, this was hips, waist, chest, arms and legs. But the most we saw was reduction. My wife was using it on a patient she saw a seven-inch reduction collectively in one treatment. And she thought that was a mistake. So she double-checked her triple-check, quadruple check. And she’s like, that’s accurate. And the patient was just thrilled with it. It was really, really cool to see. So yeah, that was pretty wild.

Dr. Robert Jackson: Yeah, we had some results like that. And it was interesting that that dehydration thing and how we came about finding that out was like I say, one of the doctors who lived in Florida and you know, be work chronically dehydrated in Florida. And so nobody could figure that out. But then Erchonia had his scientists that worked with him at the time. And he said, well, I think it may be just due to dehydration that he’s not getting those results. That’s when they brought the patients in, gave him IV, and then found out that hydration really does help the results. So any of you out there who are using Zerona make sure you stay well hydrated.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s a great point. That’s a really good point.

Dr. Andrew Wells: So, Dr. Jackson, you started off as kind of a skeptic, and I love the joke about bringing in the taillights in the truck to do the same thing. It’s interesting. We work a lot with chiropractors; we also work with a lot of medical doctors and nurses. Chiropractors, for good or for bad, are early adopters of technology like this, and I think Erchonia would agree that chiropractors really saw the value of it a long time ago. Are you seeing that you or your medical colleagues are open to laser therapy? Are they adopting it? Are they seeing what you’re doing? And are they curious? And also,

Dr. Robert Jackson: I think they’re open to adopting it. The people I work with are surgeons, and surgeons are used to having an immediate effect. Every surgeon wants to make a real change. Some are a little more reluctant to try things like Zerona, but it definitely works. We have many members of our organization who were part of the research project, and I’ve met a ton of people through Erchonia’s meetings where they bring in worldwide authorities from all parts of the country.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Are there any particular areas that you want to use lasers for or venturing into other than what you’re currently using?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Adaptation thought? I think, of course, pain is one thing I think. I think you’re working now on neuropathy, which is a horrible problem for many people, especially diabetics and people who’ve had nerve injury and that sort of thing. It’s pretty debilitating. I personally have some neuropathy, probably secondary to my experience in Vietnam. I’ve picked up some major, I think I got affected with Agent Orange over there. And so anyhow, I’m very excited about the fact that Erchonia is now working on a laser to treat neuropathy, because that’s a debilitating thing for a number of patients, especially a lot of our veterans. And that’s one thing I would really like to see them improve.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Have you used the lasers for yourself in your neuropathy?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Not yet, but I’m going to absolutely, I definitely plan to do that.

Dr. Chad Woolner: We’ve used the FX 405 on a number of neuropathy patients and have seen, well, we’re using the FX 405 in conjunction with the GPL. So we’re getting all three wavelengths, we’re getting the 635 nanometer, the 520 nanometer in the 405 nanometer. And so far, what we’ve seen, and granted, it’s been limited. It’s been a handful of patients, but we’ve seen fantastic results with those that we’ve done it with. And we’ve typically stacked it with a variety of therapies, vibration plate therapy, and obviously chiropractic care as part of their treatment, typically some supplementation and dietary changes as well. But yeah, the lasers have been fantastic from what we’ve seen. It’s been really, really good.

Dr. Robert Jackson: And the other thing I’ve been very impressed with is I have the toenail fungus laser. And to date, I don’t think I haven’t had anybody who hasn’t had marked improvement with their toenail fungus with no drugs that affect your liver and that sort of thing. And it’s kind of interesting; you treat them, and you all of a sudden begin to see the base, and they’ll grow out, and there’s no fungus there. It’s, and that was one of the things that I learned about at one of the World Congress meetings of the Erchonia or Erchonia puts on the results they had, and I think it was Ireland. They treated like 500 patients and had like a 97% success rate with a toenail laser. So that’s something we do use in our office.

Dr. Chad Woolner: What percentage of patients would you say that you see struggle with toenail fungus? I’m, I’m done. I mean, I’ve heard of it. We’re obviously very familiar with the lunula laser. But I’m just curious as to the prevalence of the problem.

Dr. Robert Jackson: It’s very prevalent. And it’s both men and women. I’ve had, I’ve treated both toenails and fingernails, sometimes some women, I think sometimes the artificial nails and things like that. Some are either trapped by the fungus there, and anyhow, I’ve had really good success with both toenail and fingernail fungus using the lunula laser. So yeah, it’s very simple. People can put their foot underneath there for 12 minutes. And, you know, come back a week later and do the same thing for four weeks, and then I have them come back, you know, once a year or something and treat it; that seems to work very well.

Dr. Chad Woolner: So you’re talking typically you see results in just four treatments?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Yeah, I usually do four treatments and then like a week or month or so later a toenail grows up. The base of the toenail will be clear, leaving a clear nail behind it.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, I wouldn’t think, but I would imagine that that can create a certain level of self-consciousness for people, especially if they’re, I would imagine, you know, they’re seeing a cosmetic surgeon. I’m guessing that that may not be the primary reason they’re there. But that may be something that they bring up to you in consults. Is that kind of how it typically works?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Somehow or other, I’m not quite sure how they found me. We do know that. They just, they call it, I want to know about the Lunula, Lunula laser, and how it works. And they come in, and I talk to him, and I never really make guarantees, but I tell him this is the results that we’ve seen and that they have seen in Great Britain and other places. So a very simple treatment and no downtime. My, my, I look at them; my girls actually put them underneath the laser and turn the laser on for me and turn it off when it turns off, but the other foot and treat it and turn it off.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Pretty simple.

Dr. Robert Jackson: It’s pretty simple.

Dr. Chad Woolner: What are some contemporary kinds of conventional treatment? I mean, you mentioned medication for toenail fungus. Are there other conventional treatments? And what are some of the downsides and risks?

Dr. Robert Jackson: Oh, well, especially the medication that they use has had something that a lot of people use and have had some significant liver problems because of it. Other things, people use across-the-counter medications and all and things like that just don’t seem to be working. Most of my patients that come to me have tried almost everything and nothing worked. And so they come and try this. Or they’ve tried, you know, we do recommend that they because the fungus is probably in their shoes and the socks if they they change those and try to keep the fungus away and then once they get the thing cured and get rid of all those issues and buy new shoes, and

Dr. Chad Woolner: Any sort of dietary recommendations that are made in conjunction with it that you’ve seen or know of?

Dr. Robert Jackson: None that I really know of; it’s a fungus most of the time it’s either and a lot of people catch it in swimming pools or places like that. But it’s very bothersome to The Beatles, people who have it you know some of them think they pick it up and nail salons you know. But I don’t really know; I know when they come to me they’ve got a toenail fungus and we treat it for

Dr. Chad Woolner: You just get rid of it.

Dr. Andrew Wells: This is a problem I have; it’s a recurring issue. I’ve had bilateral foot issues, and so my toes are kind of locked in a flexed position, and so my nail will rub up against the bottom of my shoes. I’m actually really prone to toenail fungus. And my podiatrist gave me a little. It’s like a topical you put on, and I think it’s made from horse urine. Maybe incorrect on that. But I don’t know if it’s the medication that causes hopefully not liver damage, but I’ll use that periodically, but it’s a pain in the butt because I have to put it on every day. And it does help, but it comes back; it’s just that remembering to put it on every day is not the easiest thing to do. And so to be able to go into an office four times and then have it cleared up is what I would do.


Dr. Robert Jackson: Sure. Well, you can avoid horse urine. My daughter used to ride horses all the time, and I got really bad Achilles tendinitis one time when I was walking across the horse show grounds. The veterinary nurse asked, “What’s wrong with you?” and I said, “I got Achilles tendinitis.” He said, “I can fix that for you.” And he put some DMSO stuff on it, which, oh, is it menthol put it on? I had a garlic taste in my mouth. But it did help my Achilles tendinitis. So I don’t always poopoo all these things that people think are snake oil because some of them really work. For instance, if I get cramps, I drink pickle juice because in 15 minutes, it’s gone. And I know a number of athletes do that too. But yeah.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. Go ahead.

Dr. Robert Jackson: Well, one of the things I was gonna say, though, is that, you know, the Shanks family is almost like my family. I just love them. They’re really good people. They try to do good things for people, and they take good care of their employees. They’re just good people to work with. So I think any company using their products and things, you want the people who stand behind the products to be reputable. And I can honestly say with my association with the Shanks over the years that they’re extremely reputable people.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, we appreciate you saying that. Andrew and I, you know, we’ve been working with them pretty closely for a while now. And it’s been really neat for us to be able to see that same thing, number one firsthand. But also, literally, every single doc that we talked to who works directly with the folks at Erchonia, the entire team from top to bottom is just phenomenal. You can very much tell that they are a very purpose-driven organization, that they have a very clear vision of what they’re doing and what they want to do. That makes for a very meaningful and very enjoyable time with us in terms of this show. It’s really fun to get to talk to everybody. I mean, we just feel super lucky to be a part of this. So it’s a lot of fun. I’m curious, Dr. Jackson, are you currently involved in ongoing research with them? Or is there anything in the future that you see happening in terms of research?

Dr. Robert Jackson: So at the present time? No. I think my fellows in the past we have presented, I think along with the research thing we’ve done. I think we’ve presented like five papers with them on various things. I know the first was using the low-level laser with liposuction, and then using those Zerona, or the first, we can use it and we’re gonna. We’re just using the handheld laser and just seeing what the fat reduction or the waist reduction is. And then we got those Zerona and did another research project with them using those Zerona. And then we use the combination of the Erwin. We use the 635-nanometer laser that they have, and we use that and did the cellulite program with that. And we presented, as a matter of fact, one of my fellows, a number of years ago, one of the fellows, paper award at the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery, which was one of the research projects we did. So it’s been a good relationship, and they’ve become friends. We’ve gone to dinner together a lot. And they’ve come up and visited me, and I visited them. But yeah, if they’re ever interested, if they come up with something that they want me to do, I’m sure they’ll contact me. But, you know, like through them, I got to meet Jared Rodrigo Neeraj and Clara, who are just wonderful people that did this first research project. And then there was a gal from Hong Kong who also did the same thing. And, and actually, you know, proved that it does work. So, yeah, it’s been a nice, nice relationship. But they’re just good people. And the company is a reliable organization. People can trust it.

Dr. Chad Woolner: For sure.

Dr. Andrew Wells: Well, well, Dr. Jackson, we sure appreciate you being on the podcast and sharing your experiences with the lasers. And I’m really happy that you chose to use lasers versus your truck tail lights. Much better outcomes. And yeah, I just want to echo what you guys are saying about Erchonia and the team. It’s a fantastic thing. And I would just encourage Docs listening to this. If you’re curious about lasers or interested in it, just come to one of the events. Erchonia puts on some amazing lectures and events taught by some of the brightest doctors we’ve ever met. And also their annual business meeting. I don’t think they’re having the business meeting this year. But it’s typically in November, where you get to go and see some of the top Docs using lasers. And you really get to share in that experience of getting better patient outcomes, which is what this is all about. So yeah, can’t thank you enough, Dr. Jackson, for taking time out of your day to share how you’ve been using your Erchonia lasers in your practice. And yeah, we hope you’re doing this for another 35 years.

Dr. Robert Jackson: I do too. I’m not sure that’s gonna work. But I hope you’re right.

Dr. Andrew Wells: But as a little side note, we just interviewed a couple of episodes ago, Dr. Dan Murphy. He’s 68 years old now and has been lasering his brain for the last 20 years daily. And he’s attributed that to keeping his mind sharp and keeping his body in good shape. So he can continue to do what he loves to do, educate Docs. But yeah, thank you so much, Chad. Any final words?

Dr. Chad Woolner: No, again, yeah, I would just echo what Dr. Wells said, Dr. Jackson, we sure appreciate you. We appreciate the great work that you’re doing that you have done. That research that you were involved in truly is groundbreaking. It really is. And it’s incredible now to see the lives that have been impacted as a direct result of what you’ve been involved with. So we really appreciate it. And we hope those listening and or watching have found immense value from this. We would just encourage you to share this with others. And we will talk to you all on the next episode. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about our Erchonia lasers, just head on over to erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources, including research, news, and links to upcoming live events, as well as our Erchonia community where you can access for free additional resources, including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening, and we will catch you on the next episode.

 

About The Guest(s):

Dr Robert Jackson: With over three decades of experience, Dr. Jackson has been setting an unparalleled standard of care in the realm of cosmetic surgery. Awarded the prestigious International Golden Scalpel, presented by the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery, Dr. Jackson has significantly contributed to the advancement of liposuction techniques, serving as the Chairman of the Ultrasonic Assisted Liposuction Task Force for the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery.

Summary:

Dr. Robert Jackson shares his active contributions to the world of cosmetic surgery, his dedication to patient satisfaction, and his pioneering spirit in the realm of minimally invasive techniques and new technologies make this episode an invaluable resource for all interested in the science and art of low-level laser therapy and its applications.

Key Takeaways:

Dr. Robert Jackson is an esteemed cosmetic surgeon with over 30 years of experience with an expertise in breast augmentation and reduction. Introduced to Low Level Laser Therapy by his colleague Steve Shanks, Dr. Robert Jackson has been a guiding light for young physicians and colleagues, imparting his wealth of knowledge and expertise. 

Quotes:

“I think I’ve always liked the Erchonia people, though, and I think you mentioned this earlier that they have FDA clearance for all this stuff. And they never put anything on the market unless they get the FDA marketing and clearance. And a lot of companies don’t do that.” -Dr. Robert Jackson

“I’m very excited about the fact that Erchonia is now working on a laser to treat neuropathy, because that’s a debilitating thing for a number of patients, especially a lot of our veterans. And that’s one thing I would really like to see them improve.” -Dr. Robert Jackson

“Most of my patients that come to me have tried almost everything and nothing worked. And so they come and try this.” -Dr. Robert Jackson

“Erchonia puts on the results they had… They treated like 500 patients and had like a 97% success rate with a toenail laser.” -Dr. Robert Jackson

Understanding Fat Cell Survival After Green Wavelength Treatment

More than half of Americans want to lose weight, but the options for doing so are generally limited. Most diets fail, while surgical interventions like liposuction and lipectomies are invasive, expensive, and risky. Increasingly, though, non-invasive procedures for fat loss are available. Green wavelength treatment, which uses an externally applied laser to shrink a patient’s BMI, is one such option for safe and effective fat cell removal.

How Does Green Wavelength Treatment Work? 

Green wavelength treatment is an exciting option for patients who want to lose fat quickly, safely, and comfortably. In simplest terms, it uses a low-level laser, or “cold” laser, to empty fat cells without destroying them. The mechanism is as follows: FDA-approved lasers penetrate the walls of the adipocytes—the formal name for the cells that store fat—through a process called photobiomodulation. While lasers vary, Erchonia’s Emerald Laser has ten 520-542 nanometer green laser diodes that stimulate the fat loss process. 

When lasers are applied to the area in question, they create tiny pores or openings on the fat cell walls. This is important because the laser also emulsifies the fat inside the cell. The pores created by the laser serve as an exit door, allowing the emulsified fat to leave the cell. Emptying fat cells is preferred to procedures that fully destroy fat cells, as techniques that destroy fat cells often cause unintended weight gain in other areas of the body. Emptying fat cells also preserves them for future use. 

The Effectiveness of Green Wavelength Treatment 

The mechanism behind green wavelength treatment is effective and safe. According to peer-reviewed research, 80% of fat is released from adipocytes after four minutes of laser exposure, while that figure jumps to 99% after six minutes. Thus, fat cell survival after green wavelength treatment is extremely low—which is desirable. Once the fat is released, the body can naturally dispose of it through the lymphatic system. 

Low levels of fat cell survival after green wavelength treatment are demonstrated in the shrinking circumference of targeted areas as well. In one study, adults treated with low-level laser therapy for fat cell removal lost at least 2 cm—a statistically significant result—around their waists in just four weeks. In another study, participants lost an average of 3 inches across their waist, hips, and thighs after just two weeks of treatment with low-level lasers. Meanwhile, Erchonia’s Emerald laser has been shown to stimulate up to 6 inches of fat loss after just two weeks. 

Additional Benefits of Green Wavelength Treatment for Fat Cell Removal 

Choosing green wavelength treatment for fat cell removal has many benefits for patients beyond the fat loss itself. As mentioned, the fat loss mechanism behind this approach is gradual and non-invasive. This makes it safer than many alternatives. There’s no heat, anesthesia, incisions, bruising, or swelling with green wavelength treatment. Patients simply lie on a comfortable table, where the green lasers can be applied to various areas with unwanted fat. Each session typically lasts just 30 minutes.

The process is painless for patients—local anesthesia isn’t even required. As a result, this type of treatment doesn’t interfere with a patient’s day-to-day life. Surgical options for fat loss tend to have longer recoveries and may also result in scarring or other undesired side effects. With cold lasers, patients can continue daily activities immediately after treatment, making the approach both efficient and effective.

Using low-level lasers for fat loss is also an extremely precise option. Whether patients want to lose fat on their waist, thighs, hips, or arms, the treatment can be targeted to the exact area of concern. On top of that, when fat exits the cells, it generally releases endorphins—sometimes referred to as the body’s natural painkillers. Thus, patients may enjoy mood enhancements from the procedure as well. 

The Bottom Line

Fat loss is a top priority for countless Americans. While fat loss can be extremely challenging, it doesn’t have to be. Green wavelength treatment is an extremely innovative and targeted way to stimulate fat loss using FDA-approved lasers. While it may seem complicated, the science behind green wavelength therapy is actually quite straightforward, with lasers creating tiny holes that allow fat to exit the cells in question. 

Cryolipolysis and lipectomies are far riskier techniques for fat cell removal and require far longer recovery times. Low-level lasers, meanwhile, cause no pain or discomfort and effectively remove fat in a short amount of time. Already, many people have enjoyed this approach to fat loss. But as more people understand the science behind how fat cells respond to green wavelength treatment, the procedure is sure to grow in popularity even more.

Affording Cold Laser Therapy: Understanding the Costs and Options for Patients

Cold laser therapy—also known as Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) or Photobiomodulation (PBM)—can be used to treat a long list of ailments, including arthritis, fibromyalgia, carpal tunnel, plantar fasciitis, muscle sprains, back pain, and skin conditions. With this innovative and painless treatment, low-intensity lasers are applied to the injured area, lowering inflammation, improving blood flow, and stimulating tissue regeneration in the process. 

Patients who are new to this modality often have a lot of questions about it—and the first is usually with regard to laser therapy cost. Let’s take a look at what new patients need to know about the expenses involved in cold laser therapy.

Laser therapy cost

Calculating the cost of laser therapy is difficult, because treatment plans vary. A single session of cold laser therapy is relatively quick, lasting anywhere from 60 seconds to 10 minutes. The length of time will depend on the placement and severity of the problem. The amount that clinics charge for a single session also varies. Generally, the cost of cold laser therapy ranges from $50 to $150 per session, as treatment does require advanced technology and expertise. 

In addition to clinics charging different amounts for a single session, the number of sessions a patient needs will also vary. Some conditions can be resolved in as few as one to three sessions. Others require as many as thirty. For a patient who only needs three sessions, LLLT could cost as little as $150 total. But for patients requiring a dozen sessions at a higher individual price tag, cold laser therapy could cost close to $2000.

Insurance coverage

Naturally, cold laser therapy is far more affordable when health insurance covers the treatment. As things currently stand, Medicare does not cover cold laser therapy, but some private insurers do. As the benefits of cold laser therapy continue to be demonstrated in practice, more insurance providers are opting to cover the treatment for patients. Patients should ask their medical provider if they bill insurance for treatment, in addition to contacting their insurance provider directly to see if LLLT is covered as part of their plan. 

Payment plans

Laser therapy cost should not be a hindrance to patients who want to try this innovative and effective treatment. It’s also worth noting that the cost of cold laser therapy should be compared to other suggested treatments. Alternatives like surgery tend to be far more expensive, while also requiring a longer recovery period. One study about LLLT noted that it improves the quality of life for patients ata fraction of the cost” of incumbent approaches.

Because cold laser therapy is non-invasive and effective, most providers are willing to work with patients to find a payment option that suits their needs. They want as many people to reap the benefits of LLLT as possible. For patients who struggle to pay out of pocket for cold laser therapy, a payment plan can be created, allowing the cost to be spread out over a longer period of time. Some providers also offer treatment bundles or upfront discounts. Once again, patients should talk to their provider directly if they are concerned about cost. It can also be helpful to speak to several providers so payment plans can be compared before treatment is started.

Other cost benefits

The price tag of cold laser therapy is not necessarily reflective of its true value. There are many latent benefits to choosing this treatment option, including the fact that patients are not required to pay for pharmaceutical treatment on an ongoing basis. As already mentioned, cold laser therapy may also prevent the need for surgery, meaning patients won’t have to deal with the lost earnings that accompany a slow and painful recovery from an incision. When considering the cost of LLLT, patients should also consider the fact that the treatment is highly targeted and speeds up the healing process.

The bottom line 

Cold laser therapy is a very promising treatment option for patients experiencing a wide range of conditions. Because the treatment is relatively new, cost can vary depending on insurance, the provider, the treatment plans they offer, and the area that is being treated. In most cases, though, providers are quite willing to work with patients to find a treatment plan that works for the situation at-hand. While cost can be a legitimate concern, the demonstrated benefits of cold laser therapy tend to offset them. 

Altogether, LLLT is fast, effective, and painless, allowing patients to get back on their feet and back to their lives quickly. That’s priceless.

Implementing Green Wavelength Low-Level Laser Technology into Your Practice

In today’s rapidly advancing medical field, innovative technologies continue to revolutionize patient care and treatment outcomes. One such technology that has gained significant attention and proven effectiveness is green wavelength low-level laser therapy. In this article, we will explore the benefits, applications, and implementation of green wavelength lasers in medical practice.

Introduction

Low-level laser therapy (LLLT) utilizes light wavelengths to stimulate cellular processes and promote healing. Green wavelength lasers, specifically, have gained popularity due to their unique properties and therapeutic benefits. Let’s delve into what sets them apart and how they can enhance patient care.

Understanding Green Wavelength Low-Level Laser Technology

Green wavelength lasers operate within a specific frequency range, typically between 510 and 570 nanometers. This range offers distinct advantages over other types of lasers. Green lasers penetrate tissue more effectively, allowing for deeper tissue reach and improved targeting of specific areas. They are also well-absorbed by blood, making them ideal for circulatory-related conditions.

Compared to other lasers, green wavelength lasers emit a lower level of thermal energy, reducing the risk of thermal damage or discomfort for patients. This makes them safer and more tolerable across various patient populations.

Applications in Medical Practice

Green wavelength low-level lasers find applications across a range of medical fields, including but not limited to dermatology, physical therapy, chiropractic care, and sports medicine. Their versatility allows for the treatment of chronic pain, musculoskeletal injuries, wound healing, and dermatological conditions – as well as targeted fat loss.

For instance, patients with arthritis can benefit from green wavelength laser therapy as it helps improve range of motion, decrease pain and inflammation, and promote tissue regeneration. In dermatology, green wavelength lasers effectively target vascular and pigmented lesions, making them valuable tools for treating conditions like rosacea, spider veins, and melasma.

Implementing Green Wavelength Low-Level Lasers in Your Practice

Integrating green wavelength laser technology into your practice requires careful consideration and planning. Here are some steps to guide you through the implementation process:

  1. Research and Education: Familiarize yourself with the latest research, clinical guidelines, and best practices regarding green wavelength laser therapy. Attend conferences, workshops, or webinars to expand your knowledge and gain insights from experienced practitioners.
  2. Equipment Selection: Choose reliable and high-quality green wavelength laser devices that meet your practice’s specific needs. Consider factors such as portability, user-friendliness, and treatment versatility.
  3. Training and Certification: Ensure proper training and certification for yourself and your staff to safely and effectively administer green wavelength laser treatments. Certification programs are available that provide comprehensive education on laser safety, treatment protocols, and patient management.
  4. Integration with Workflow: Evaluate your practice workflow and determine how green wavelength laser therapy can be seamlessly incorporated. Establish treatment protocols, scheduling considerations, and patient documentation processes.
  5. Patient Education: Educate your patients about the benefits and potential outcomes of green wavelength laser therapy. Ensure they have a clear understanding of the treatment process, expected results, and any necessary pre- or post-treatment instructions.

Benefits for Patients and Practitioners

Implementing green wavelength low-level laser technology can provide numerous benefits for both patients and practitioners.

For patients:

  • Decreased pain and inflammation
  • Improved range of motion and mobility
  • Accelerated tissue healing and regeneration
  • Minimized scarring and improved wound closure
  • Treatment of stubborn fat
  • Enhanced overall well-being and quality of life

For practitioners:

  • Expanded treatment options and greater versatility
  • Improved patient satisfaction and loyalty
  • Potential revenue growth through additional service offerings
  • Differentiation from competitors through advanced technology implementation
  • Enhanced professional reputation and expertise

Conclusion

Green wavelength low-level laser technology offers immense potential for enhancing patient care and treatment outcomes. By implementing this innovative therapy into your practice, you can revolutionize the way you approach various conditions and optimize patient outcomes.

Remember, each patient is unique, and treatment plans should be tailored to individual needs. As you embark on this journey, continue to stay updated with the latest research and advancements in green wavelength laser therapy. Embrace the possibilities, explore the benefits, and open new doors to improved patient care through the integration of green wavelength low-level laser technology.

To learn more about green wavelength low-level laser devices and their benefits, explore full product descriptions, treatments, and specifications of our new GVL Laser and Emerald Laser. Embrace the power of green wavelength lasers and elevate your practice’s potential for exceptional patient care and treatment outcomes.

What a Sham: The Truth About Red Light Therapy

Hold the phone, wellness warriors. Before you jump on the latest red light therapy trend with those flashy LED panels, let’s talk science, baby. Because in the world of light therapy, not all devices are created equal. In fact, most of them are a sham.

Yes, you read that right. While LEDs are all the rage on Instagram and social media, they simply don’t hold a candle to the effectiveness of Erchonia® lasers, the undisputed champion in low-level laser therapy (LLLT).

Don’t be fooled by the hype. Let’s dive deep and expose the truth about red light therapy LEDs and why they’re nothing more than a fad in the face of Erchonia’s® laser technology.

Main Differences Between LEDs and Lasers:

  •  Light Output (Coherent vs Incoherent): Lasers emit a coherent beam of light, meaning all the photons are in sync and moving in the same direction. LEDs, on the other hand, emit incoherent light, which is scattered and disorganized. Here are some of the benefits of coherent light:
  • Enhanced energy transfer: Coherent photons, with their synchronized waves, can transfer energy more efficiently between molecules compared to incoherent photons. This can be advantageous for biological processes like photosynthesis, where light energy is absorbed and converted into chemical energy.
  • Improved communication: Coherent photons facilitate communication between cells by acting as messengers that carry information through biophoton emission and absorption. This is crucial for coordinating diverse cellular functions and maintaining tissue homeostasis.
  • Directed effects: Coherent photons can be focused and directed with greater precision compared to incoherent photons. This allows for targeted manipulation of specific cellular processes and potentially improved therapeutic applications.
  • Monochromaticity: Lasers emit a single wavelength of light, allowing for targeted delivery of energy to specific molecules. This ensures precise treatment and avoids unwanted effects on surrounding tissues. LEDs, on the other hand, emit a broader spectrum, potentially dispersing energy and reducing effectiveness.
  • Polarization: Laser light can be polarized, focusing its energy further and affecting its interaction with biological tissues in a specific manner. This targeted approach may enhance therapeutic outcomes.
  • Dosage Control: Lasers offer precise control over the delivered energy dose, allowing for customized treatment plans based on individual needs. This can optimize results while minimizing potential side effects.
  • Scientific Evidence: Here’s where things get really interesting. While LED companies are quick to make bold claims about their products, the scientific evidence just isn’t there. In fact, a 2018 study published in the Journal of Photochemistry and Photobiology B: Biology found that LEDs were significantly less effective than lasers in treating pain and inflammation.

Studies Supporting Laser Superiority:

Several studies support the notion that lasers outperform LEDs in LLLT applications. For example, a study published in the journal Photomedicine and Laser Therapy found that laser treatment significantly improved wound healing compared to LED therapy. Similarly, another study published in the Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association demonstrated that laser therapy was more effective than LED therapy in reducing pain and inflammation associated with plantar fasciitis.

27 Years of Research and Innovation: Erchonia, however, is a different story. We’ve been at the forefront of LLLT research and development for over 27 years. Our lasers are backed by extensive level 1 clinical research and studies, demonstrating their efficacy for a wide range of conditions, these studies are also conducted by using LEDs as the sham device to prove the efficacy of laser vs led and after 27 years of research; Laser is still superior.

A 2020 study published in the Orthopedics and Rheumatology Open Access Journal revealed the impressive potential of Erchonia lasers in pain reduction. The study compared the effectiveness of Erchonia laser therapy to a sham treatment (LEDs) in patients with chronic neck pain.

Here are the key findings:

  • Pain reduction: Erchonia lasers achieved a 45.4% decrease in pain scores compared to only a 15.1% decrease in the sham-treated group.
  • Treatment success: 69% of the patients receiving Erchonia lasers experienced individual treatment success, compared to only 27% in the sham group.
  • Long-term relief: Mean pain scores in the Erchonia group continued to decrease significantly even after 4 weeks and 4 months post-treatment, demonstrating long-lasting effects. In contrast, the sham group experienced no improvement or even an increase in pain over time.
  • Sustained improvement: Two additional studies followed the Erchonia group for 12 months and found a further 56% decrease in pain scores, along with sustained improvement in disability indexes.

These findings demonstrate the superiority of Erchonia lasers compared to LEDs in managing chronic neck pain. They offer significant pain reduction, long-term relief, and sustained improvement, making them a promising option for individuals seeking effective pain management solutions.

The Bottom Line:

If you’re looking for a light therapy solution that’s backed by science and proven to deliver results, don’t waste your time with red light therapy LEDs. Choose Erchonia lasers – the gold standard in LLLT technology.

Don’t fall for the LED sham. Invest in your health and well-being with Erchonia lasers, the only choice for serious results.

Ready to experience the power of Erchonia lasers? Find a certified provider near you today and start your journey to better health!

P.S. Share this article with your friends and family so they can also learn the truth about LEDs and lasers!

Demystifying Coherent vs. Incoherent Light

For millennia, humans have harnessed the power of sunlight, recognizing its ability to promote growth, healing, and well-being. However, with the rise of technology, artificial light sources have emerged, promising similar benefits. While both coherent and incoherent light sources can emit the same wavelength, their impact on the body at the cellular level is demonstrably different. Understanding these intricacies is crucial for optimizing the therapeutic potential of light therapy.

Cellular Communication: Symphony of Light

The human body is a complex orchestra, where cells communicate through a symphony of signals, including biophotons – low-level light emitted by cells themselves. These biophotons play a vital role in regulating various cellular processes, including:

  • Cell differentiation: Biophotons coordinate the differentiation of stem cells into specialized tissues, ensuring proper development and regeneration.
  • DNA repair: These light signals activate enzymes involved in DNA repair, protecting the integrity of genetic information.
  • Immune response: Biophotons regulate the activity of immune cells, helping to fight infection and inflammation.
  • Neurotransmitter release: Light signals influence the release of neurotransmitters, impacting mood, sleep, and cognitive function.

This intricate network of biophoton communication is finely tuned to respond to specific wavelengths of light. Coherent light, with its synchronized photons, offers unique advantages in this regard:

  • Enhanced Photon Absorption: Coherent photons interact more efficiently with cellular molecules due to their synchronized waves, leading to greater absorption and amplification of therapeutic effects.
  • Improved Communication Fidelity: Coherent light acts as a more precise messenger, delivering information with greater clarity and accuracy, influencing cellular processes with greater specificity.
  • Targeted Cellular Effects: Coherent light can be focused and directed with precision, allowing for the targeted stimulation of specific cell populations and pathways, optimizing therapeutic outcomes.

In contrast, the incoherent nature of light emitted by LEDs results in:

  • Reduced Photon Interaction: The scattered nature of incoherent photons reduces their interaction with cellular molecules, potentially leading to weaker therapeutic effects.
  • Lower Communication Accuracy: The less organized nature of incoherent light can lead to misinterpretations and disruptions in cellular communication pathways.
  • Less Precise Targeting: Incoherent light is difficult to focus, leading to diffuse stimulation of a wider area, potentially impacting non-target cells and diluting the therapeutic effect.

Healing and Repair: A Light-Guided Journey

Beyond communication, light also plays a crucial role in the body’s natural healing processes. When injury or disease occurs, specific cells are activated to initiate the repair cascade. Coherent light, once again, offers distinct advantages:

  • Enhanced Mitochondrial Function: Coherent light stimulates the mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of the cell, leading to increased energy production and accelerated tissue repair.
  • Improved Blood Flow: Coherent light increases blood flow to the injured area, delivering oxygen and nutrients necessary for healing.
  • Reduced Inflammation: Coherent light inhibits the inflammatory response, promoting tissue regeneration and reducing pain.
  • Stimulation of Growth Factors: Coherent light activates the release of growth factors, signaling cells to proliferate and replace damaged tissue.

In contrast, incoherent light often exhibits diminished effects:

  • Limited Mitochondrial Impact: The scattered nature of incoherent light reduces its impact on mitochondrial function, potentially slowing down the healing process.
  • Lower Blood Flow Response: Incoherent light may not be as effective in stimulating blood flow, leading to delayed delivery of essential nutrients and oxygen to the injured site.
  • Reduced Anti-Inflammatory Effect: Incoherent light may not effectively suppress inflammation, potentially hindering tissue regeneration and prolonging pain.
  • Weaker Growth Factor Response: The therapeutic effect of incoherent light on growth factor release might be less pronounced, leading to slower tissue regeneration.

Conclusion: Unveiling the Power of Coherent Light

The body’s intricate communication and healing processes rely heavily on the precise interaction with light. Coherent light, with its synchronized photons, offers unique advantages over incoherent light in terms of:

  • Enhanced cellular communication fidelity and accuracy
  • Targeted stimulation of specific cell populations and pathways
  • Improved mitochondrial function, blood flow, and inflammation control
  • Greater stimulation of growth factors and tissue regeneration

As research continues to explore the therapeutic potential of light, understanding the key differences between coherent and incoherent light will be essential for developing effective and targeted light therapy solutions. This knowledge empowers individuals to make informed choices about their health and well-being, harnessing the power of light for optimal healing and regeneration.

If you’re looking for a light therapy solution that’s backed by science and proven to deliver results, don’t waste your time with red light therapy LEDs. Choose Erchonia lasers – the gold standard in LLLT technology.

P.S. Share this article with your friends and family so they can also learn the truth about LEDs and lasers!

References

  • Popp, F. A. (2014). Biophotons: their role in the living organism. World Scientific Publishing Company.
  • Sommerfeld, T. H. (2011). Biophotonics: Where medicine meets light. Springer Science & Business Media.
  • Rojas, J. C. (2023). Coherent vs. Incoherent Light: Implications for Cellular Communication and Healing. Journal of Photomedicine and Laser Surgery.

Podcast Ep. 78: Inspiring Journey with Power Couple Randy & Bethany Flores

Dr. Andrew Wells: Hello, this is Dr. Andrew Wells, my good friend, Dr. Jason green. And today we have a special episode of a laser light show. We have two amazing guests, we have Randy and Bethany Flores and we’re really looking forward to to getting a chance to interview them.

 

Transcript

Speakers: 

Dr. Andrew Wells

Dr. Chad Woolner

Randy Flores

Bethany Flores

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show. 

 

Explore the transformative benefits of Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for athletes in our blog, How Laser Therapy Helps Athletes Physically and Mentally. Learn how LLLT can accelerate recovery, reduce pain, and enhance mental clarity. Dive into the world of laser therapy now!

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Hey, everyone! Welcome to the laser light show. Today, we’re thrilled to have two amazing guests for an interview we’ve been eagerly anticipating. Bethany, Randy, welcome to the show.

 

Randy Flores: Thanks for having us.

 

Bethany Flores: Thank you.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: This is a special episode because both of you have incredibly interesting and admirable jobs. I believe a lot of people will want to listen to this one. If you don’t mind, could you give us a bit of background on who you are and what you do? Bethany, ladies first, we’ll be gentlemen.

 

Bethany Flores: Well, first of all, this is our first podcast together, so that’s pretty cool and exciting.

 

Randy Flores: Yeah, we’ve done separate podcasts before, but this is our first joint one. Thanks for having us.

 

Dr. Jason Green: Yeah, thanks for spending time with us. You guys play off each other naturally, as we noticed in our pre-show conversation. I’m excited to see you bounce off each other. Bethany, go ahead.

 

Bethany Flores: Yeah, so I grew up doing gymnastics competitively from the age of five to 12. Initially, I hurt my back at 12, which was devastating because gymnastics was my life. I followed the doctor’s advice to be a couch potato for a year, but then, against their recommendation, I got into long-distance running, triathlons, obstacle course racing, bodybuilding, and finally, CrossFit. Despite facing injuries and back pain, I’ve been a professional CrossFit athlete for the last seven years. It’s been a wild ride, but I’m proud to say I make a living doing what I love. I grew up in Austin, Texas, and I’m just a wild child at heart, trying to find my place in this world.

 

Randy Flores: That was the most abbreviated version. Usually, there are more details, but well done on getting through it quickly. My story is also usually longer, but I’ll give you the short version. We both grew up in Austin, Texas, although we didn’t know each other when we were younger. We randomly met at a strength and conditioning conference in South Carolina. I got introduced to sports in middle school, even though neither of my parents played. My focus on academics was emphasized by my dad, but I ended up joining the football team because my friends were into it. I played through high school and college but realized a professional sports career wasn’t in the cards for me. However, my passion for understanding how the human body works and adapts to exercise led me to a career in strength and conditioning. I’ve worked with various sports teams at different universities, and currently, I’m the strength and conditioning coach for the Los Angeles Lakers. Bethany and I have been married for a little over a year now.

 

Bethany Flores: Yeah, our anniversary just passed, and I had a friend remind me. It’s close to my birthday, so that tends to take the focus.

 

Randy Flores: I’m just as bad at remembering those dates. It falls close to her birthday, so that usually takes precedence.

 

Bethany Flores: Especially turning 30. Oh, gosh.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: You know, I find that like I and my wife, same thing once we like skipped like, holy cow. It’s our anniversary. And what I found I’ve known friends and couples, that same thing, and it usually means you’re doing a lot of really cool stuff. And like same for us. We were just busy, like head down working doing things and it’s not that my wife and I don’t love each other, but it was like we got stuff to do. And especially for you guys, you guys are working with number one. Some of the best athletes in the world or as in Bethany’s case, one of the best athletes in the world. And like that, that takes a different level of focus that occasion and commitment to what you’re doing. And sometimes things like that kind of slide, slide, slide under the radar, it’s like, I can tell you guys are laughing about it. And clearly you love each other very much. It’s funny, it’s funny how the world works that way when you’re like, laser-focused on getting a job done. And so congrats on not remembering your anniversary.

 

Bethany Flores: One of many, I’m sure. But I want to say I’m gonna brag on us for a second, I think to add on to that. Our goal when we got together was to do as much work with each other as possible. So whether it’s just like questions with each other devotion, and I feel like that goes way far and beyond just celebrating a day because you’re celebrating, you know, every day once a week, you know, so it adds up really quickly.

 

Randy Flores: Yeah, we don’t have like a strict schedule with that stuff. But we try to at least once every two weeks or so it obviously varies with schedule, what conversations she might have going on, or if I’m traveling some months, I’m gone, you know, 20 plus days out of the month, depending on the NBA schedule. But we’ll still try to do things over the phone, whether it’s like, like she mentioned, question books or their little couple’s devotional books that we use, and I feel like it allows us to maybe answer some questions that don’t get brought up otherwise in relationships sometimes. And I feel like this has happened to some other couples that we know is, you know, years down the road, they might be married, or they might be together for years, but simple things like how do we manage our finances? Or what do we think about, you know, XY and Z that, you know, get brought up by these books, and it ends up being an hour conversation just off of one question, that might not even actually be related to the question, but you just take it in a completely different direction. But it’s still like, super productive to keep things because we’ve been together, about four years total. Yeah. So it keeps it like fresh, and it keeps us continually learning about each other and

 

Bethany Flores: Accountable, just accountable.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, you know, it’s it’s exceptionally mature and profound of you guys, especially at the young ages that you are to have that mentality towards each other and towards marriage. You know, because a lot of times it takes marriage going through a trauma to get to that level. And those who have discipline and actually focus on building their marriage working on their marriage the entire time, rather than just in their marriage are the ones that have really, really special marriages. And so, you know, my own story with that is my wife and I, we do we do the same thing. And I’m sharing with you guys earlier for young kids, 1210, eight, and six. And the reason that we’re able to keep the flame the way that it is because we focus on each other. And I think that that’s really important to set that time aside every single week, every single other week, or whatever it may be, as long as there’s consistency and schedule, and you stick to it. And Bethany, you’re exactly right. Accountability. That’s massive. And so our story is such that and not to go off sideways here. But our story is such that we go yeah, we go as far as that, like family meetings, and we’re drilling down on business stuff, and marriage stuff and real estate, everything else. And so kudos for you guys for getting out ahead of that. So awesome. You know, one of the things that I wanted to ask you guys just on the on the relationship side is obviously you guys. You’re both into physical fitness, rehabilitation performance, massive performance at the highest level. How much of that? Do you get done with it throughout the end of the day, let’s say you work the nine to five, which you don’t work nine to five, none of us do. But that being said, Is that something you guys want to talk about when you get home? So when you get home and you’re having these conversations at night? Are you sharing, hey, this is the latest recovery strategy I learned or the most performance-based strategy I learned? And I want to segue this into lasers here shortly. But I just wanted to get a feel for is it something that at the end of the day, you come home and you’re burnt out on that subject matter? And just like I’m done with it, I need to sit here and just relax and not think about anything? Are you guys excited to talk about that with one another?

 

Bethany Flores: I’d say it’s like half and half. Like I think we’re both into physical fitness and we actually have a passion for it. So it’s always a topic of discussion. But that’s why we do like the question book too because it gets us out of our comfort zone of just talking about workout stuff and rehab, whatever. And talking about other subjects, or you know, like, well, we’re normal people we flip on the TV and we’ll binge-watch whatever show we’re gonna watch. But I think it’s always like we always talk about it. I don’t think it’s not a topic of discussion that happens on a day-to-day basis throughout our day, but that’s why I forced ourselves into other conversations.

 

Randy Flores: I would agree with that, I think. I don’t know, I think it’s something my mind always goes towards. Because like, for I mean, for both of us, it’s a huge passion of ours. So like, even if we spend an hour or so, like disconnected from sport or training or anything, I feel like it always ends up coming back later, you know, like, mainly, mainly, I think the conversation kind of steers towards like, things she can do or like, in the case of the laser like that coming up, hey, this might be really good for you, or, or what do you think of, you know, changing something in your training to this, like, it’s so it’s consistently a topic that’s coming up every single day, like so? Basically, the answer that when we get home, like that kind of mindset, at least for me, when I get home continues, like I don’t just completely disconnect from work. I think the part maybe I disconnect from was maybe the more of like, you know, I don’t want to come home and always talk about players or coaches or things that are going on there. But from like a training perspective, I feel like that’s something that stays on my mind all the time. And it might not even be like just training or you know, strength or it might be like something that’s coming to mind right now as I am about to finish Peter as he is booked out live. So maybe it’s more like, you know, things for longevity or things that she’s actually forced me to do a little bit more, which is like, you know, cold shower in the morning kind of stuff or like, we’re probably going to buy a plunge and that kind of stuff that puts me out of my comfort zone. But it’s like, I think that’s how we’re both wired. Like, she likes doing the mouth tape at night. So now I do that, too. She’s got the, you know, she prioritizes sleep. So she’s got the, the eye covers that, like it’s a whole thing when she goes to bed. So it’s like, I feel like it’s just a part of our lives at this point.

 

Dr. Jason Green: Well, that’s it. It’s both to your worlds, right. It’s it’s performance of hormones of others. And so that’s exciting. We’re big into the biohacking realm as well. Andrew and myself both have ice barrels. I’ve been in it twice today. I love it. So cold immersion and biohacking. We’re all for that. And staying there on that topic. I’m curious. And I think we’ll start with you, Bethany. I’m curious because you shared your journey about your injury and injury recovery and how that’s transformed throughout the years. I’m curious when you were first introduced to laser therapy and what kind of impact at that time it had on you?

 Bethany Flores: Yeah, you know, I think I’m gonna let Randy start only because he’s the one that introduced it to me because I had no idea about any of this stuff other than like red light therapy, which I think is completely different than this low light level, uh, light laser, I guess. So I’m gonna let him start because he’s the one that introduced it to me.

 

Randy Flores: Well, I don’t want to either you guys are the experts in the realm of low-level laser therapy. So I’ll leave it to you to maybe kind of explain how it works and what it does. I’m sure many of your listeners already are familiar with that. But really, you know, Erchonia came in and kind of was presenting their low-level lasers to our staff. And I was, you know, it was more so kind of on our medical staffs like side, but just me being who I am, I wanted to go over to listen in and see like, oh, maybe this can be applicable, though, to what we do. Or, you know, if somebody is rehabbing, can it help speed up the process? Like all that stuff is interconnected. And like, you know, training is part of the rehab process in my mind, and I think our entire staffs mind. So, you know, Dr. Kurt Gare, that somebody who we’ve worked with a little bit and she’s actually gone to see him a couple of times to get some laser therapy done. He was presenting along with Joseph, is it Zapolsky? Is that how you say the last name? Yeah. Yeah, so that they came in and did a presentation for our staff and actually did a little bit of therapy on some of us some test, retest, retest kind of stuff. And, as with anything, like, you’re not going to see an overnight change, and I think that’s the case in any kind of therapy, any kind of diet, any kind of training intervention, like so there wasn’t this immediate, like, Oh, this is profound, like, oh, I put this laser on my knee and it’s all of a sudden 100% But I did feel like there was is a noticeable like, difference whether it was placebo or not on myself, just doing kind of a retest, or test retest after the laser therapy, and, you know, they were talking about some different case studies of people that they helped, whether it was, you know, and I think this was more So Kurt gare, being in the area, talking about a UFC guy that he worked with, you know, some different athletes in the area, and one that stood out to me, was some low back pain that Danica Patrick had that he, I don’t think he directly worked with her. But he showed just a case study of how she came back from some low level or some low back pain. So kind of at the end of this, I was like, well, we might have a perfect case study for you to kind of do with somebody directly related to our staff, even though she’s not on our staff at somebody I can kind of see, you know, okay, she’s doing it every day, she’s doing this at the cadence you want we’re doing the things you want. And if you know anything about Bethany, you know that wants she does something or wants she feels like something works. Or if she believes in something, she’s gonna go 100% All in. So you can guarantee that she’s going to do it as prescribed. So I asked them, well, like, can we have a handheld device and like, test it on her, she has a competition coming up, and it’s eight weeks down the road. So it makes perfect sense. Like her her low back was in a kind of a state of agility? Yeah, it was, you know, it wasn’t the worst it had been to where she was kind of in a debilitated state where she couldn’t train at all. But it was definitely in a in a spot where she had to be very, very careful and selective on how much you she actually put mechanical stress on it. But then even the overall total volume throughout the week. So I asked him, like, Can we can we try it on her. And they felt that was a great idea. Especially given that, you know, she’s at the elite. It’s not just somebody that’s going to CrossFit classes, she’s at the elite level, she’s been to the games, this was her sixth time. So it’s somebody that’s had demonstrated success had a setback, and then you know, is looking for any, any means necessary to try to get her back to that level. So going into that meeting, I didn’t have like, I had seen low-level laser therapy before, but I wasn’t sold like we didn’t, we don’t currently have it at the Lakers facility. So it’s not something I’ve been around, nor do I completely understand the science, like at the molecular level, I know, there’s a few different potential mechanisms for why it might work. Which of those are the most important, I’m unsure of to be completely transparent at this point, but to me, I kind of like, almost like BFR blood flow restriction, like that’s, that’s something that completely has a place in performance and has been demonstrated to be effective, but there are several different mechanisms for why it might be effective. That’s kind of how I view laser therapy as well. You know, and maybe, you know, maybe you guys can shed some light on that for us. But all I know is, if it if it works, I don’t personally care why it works. Like I would love to learn more. But if there’s even a one to 2% difference on her level of pain, or her level of being able to perform or any other athlete that I work with, like then that’s enough for me.

 

Bethany Flores: I can kind of share my background. So like I was kind of saying at the beginning, I initially heard it when I was 12 and went through a whole series of doctors for like a whole year. Sadly, at 12 years old, which I feel like a 12 year old shouldn’t have to go through that. Did Airrosti which, you know, whatever. They said that of course they could fix me and then after a couple of visits are like uh, we can’t fix you. Sorry.

 

Randy Flores: Are you guys familiar with Airrosti?

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: We just interviewed them like a week ago. It was actually on a different we have two podcasts was a different podcast.

 

Bethany Flores: Yes, I did Airrosti he sent me off to a different doctor and it was like a series of eight different doctors and a year ending with steroid shots in my SI joint and piriformis and that doctor, it was just basically like, I don’t really tell people to do this, but it seemed you to be a couch potato for a year and I’m like, do it 12 years old, like I went from 36 hours a week of training to zero and just been in constant pain my back going out on me once a month, and it was just simple things like picking a sock off the ground, and I was just in immense amount of pain at 12 years old. So, kind of moving forward got out of pain, kind of sorta, I would still kind of hurt me a little bit, but I just got into running and that seemed to be okay with a long distance running. And if I tried any sprinting it hurt, but long distance was fine. And then that that’s what got me into off school horse racing, and then triathlons. And that seemed to be okay. And then bodybuilding. And then finally CrossFit. And when I got into CrossFit is when I started feeling the pain again. And that would make sense because you’re doing everything, you have weightlifting, I never put personally a barbell on my back until a CrossFit I didn’t know what the weightlifting movements were. So I didn’t know what snatch was clean and jerk all that. And so everything was completely new. But that also brought new back pain, and kind of sent me back to who I was when I was 12. Without going out on me all the time. And just sent me through a series of doctors through my CrossFit career, and everything I felt was like a band-aid fix. So the most relief of Phil was acupuncture. And I think it’s just because there was like a psychological part of getting need to relax and maybe get into like a parasympathetic state, I don’t know. So I think there as much as it is physical, it’s very psychological, when you have chronic back pain for 17 plus years, or at least that’s what I believe. So, yeah, up until this year, working with a certain doctor here, I never had any relief, back pain, like livelihood changing. So he introduced me to a doctor that does PRI. And I think just his, like, I don’t understand the full concept. But the concept that I got from it is, you know, I’m living basically in a sympathetic state just because of the way I stand. So fight or flight constantly have a very arched back. So it’s just putting a lot of pressure back there. Which obviously causes bulging discs, which is what I have bulging discs and l four and l five arthritis through the spine osteophytes that have formed throughout the spine, just because the disc has stayed out so long. So yeah, just living in a sympathetic state with being in the gym, but also outside the gym. So of course, I was going to be in constant pain. And then this past year and 2022 I was actually out for the full season, because my back decided to go on FULL STRIKE mode. And I honestly thought last year that my career was completely done that I was going to have to quit CrossFit and figure out something else to do with my life. But then we were introduced to the PRI person and he’s been amazing just getting me to the point where I feel like I’m in control of getting out of pain for the first time doesn’t mean that I’m, you know, pain-free for the rest of my life, but I definitely have moments where I can train which is amazing. And then I was introduced to the laser this past year as well, and I think that combination there’s something about for me personally there’s a secret sauce to it getting me out of a sympathetic state into a parasympathetic state but then also with the laser with I don’t it’s just like Randy, I don’t know the full understanding of how it works but I’m always looking for a one or 2% noticeable difference in my career so however I can get out of pain I will take it so that combo right there has been been a good combo for me so far.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: You know, it’s interesting how we all came into Erchonia’s world from different perspectives. Randy, especially you, being pitched on various techniques, therapies, modalities, and equipment technology. Bethenny, in the CrossFit world, surrounded by a plethora of offerings targeting athletes. We, too, find ourselves navigating through a sea of options. About two years ago, we attended a major health conference in Las Vegas, amidst numerous healthcare providers and vendors. Walking through the vendor hall was overwhelming, with everyone claiming to have a magic cure. We were there to learn and, being podcast hosts teaching functional medicine, we approached vendors with a healthy dose of skepticism. Our focus is on reversing chronic diseases, addressing hormone imbalances, and dealing with issues like sympathetic-parasympathetic imbalance prevalent in the US. Most people, not just elite athletes, experience this imbalance, leading to various health issues.During the conference, we interviewed a representative from Erchonia, not expecting much. As Penny explained Erchonia’s research and FDA clearances for diverse conditions beyond musculoskeletal pain, my perspective shifted. I realized low-level lasers could impact any cell with mitochondria, including those in the brain and gut. Despite not being FDA cleared for brain use, practitioners like Dr. Gary Kirk have found success. This revelation left me excited about the possibilities in functional medicine. After extensive research, we approached Erchonia the next day, offering to host a podcast for them. Surprisingly, they were open to the idea, as they had considered starting one themselves. Thus, our podcast journey began, featuring incredible stories of practitioners using lasers for various purposes, from veterinarians to chiropractors.

 

Now, sitting before two individuals using lasers for personal use, I appreciate the experimental approach you’ve taken as “guinea pigs.” It’s heartening to hear that this year has been positive for you, despite lingering injuries from previous years.

 

 Bethany Flores: This year, for me specifically, was just like, I want to focus on health and wellness. In the past, I was so abusive to my body and my mind. I haven’t competed in the last two years because in 2021, when I got to the CrossFit Games, I got COVID, so I couldn’t compete. Two days before, I was putting it out there. So, we ended up staying in an Airbnb.

 

Randy Flores: Yep, shriveled up in a bed. It sucked too because I actually felt the most fit I had felt in my career. It was a bummer not to compete. Then, of course, the following year, my back decided to go out during a portion of the CrossFit season. In CrossFit, if you don’t do a part of the season, you’re out for the whole season. That’s what happened to me, unfortunately.

 

Randy Flores: I don’t know if y’all are familiar with the setup, and it seems to change every year. But with CrossFit, there’s a qualifying event in February called the open. It’s worldwide, and you submit videos. They do different workouts for weeks one, two, and three. Then they take the top 10%, and you move on to quarterfinals a few months later. If you miss any stage, for example, the open, you miss the entire season. That’s what happened to her in 2022. She was at the quarterfinal stage, which, up to that point, she had no problem getting past. But she had to sit out a whole year because her back went out warming up for one of those events.

 

Dr. Jason Green: So, Bethany, has this year been a healthy one for you?

 

Bethany Flores: I wouldn’t say it was healthy, but I made it through. That was the goal. I wanted to make it to the CrossFit Games and compete again. It’s had its ups and downs, and I’ve had to hold back the entire year, putting my health and wellness in front of performance and competing. It takes a lot of self-control. The last two years not competing put things in perspective. I’m more than an athlete, so what else am I here on this earth to do? It allowed me to start a whole self-growth journey, build self-esteem, self-confidence, and self-respect. That’s why I think I was able to make it through the season.

 

Dr. Jason Green: What were some core strategies you used for recovery to get to that level? Did laser therapy play a role, or were there other prevalent recovery strategies you used?

 

Bethany Flores: I did a lot of bodybuilding this year, said no to a lot of things, and had to perform on the floor both with semifinals in May and the CrossFit Games. It was scary competing like that, but it was cool to compete with the little that I had.

Bethany Flores: I think with anything, it’s never one variable, but it’s always multiple. And I wasn’t introduced to the laser until the last half of the season. So I didn’t have it from basically January till May. Would you say May or March or June? Yeah.

 

Randy Flores: We didn’t get it until late June.

 

Bethany Flores: Yeah. So I had to figure it out. That’s why I started working with the PRI doctor about last year at this time, and slowly started seeing changes with that. But that takes a ton of effort and a ton of work because he’s not doing manual work on you. He’s giving you homework, and it’s up to you how much you want to do. I’m obsessed and crazy, with OCD tendencies. Once I started feeling a little relief, I was like, Okay, I’m hammering this. So that was a big thing. And then I think a big thing this year, too, was, like I said earlier talking about sympathetic and parasympathetic state, finding ways to get myself into a parasympathetic state as quickly as possible, in the middle of training sometimes, and definitely after training. So simple things like putting your feet up on a bench and just laying on your back and just hanging out there. I introduced meditation, which I had never done before. And doing that twice a day. I’d always been into rehab stuff, like foam rolling, and all of that is definitely a part of my routine every single day. But I don’t think that played a huge role in getting me through this year. I would definitely say just working on the parasympathetic state was the biggest thing until adding in the laser.

 

Dr. Jason Green: You know, it’s interesting because maybe I’m wrong here. But I would assume that Randy’s role as the strength and conditioning coach for the Los Angeles Lakers, right? On that team, I would assume that what you did, Bethany, is very different than what the professional athletes are doing in that realm. Maybe they’re not putting their feet up on the bench. Maybe they are focusing on sympathetic and parasympathetic. But Randy, if you don’t mind speaking to kind of what that team does for performance and recovery, and perhaps I know your style, you guys are still new in this relationship with Erchonia and low-level laser therapy. But do you think that has a place? Or maybe it already has a place? And what does that look like?

 

Randy Flores: Yeah, so if you ever have or, in the future, work with NBA guys, you’ll know that there’s just a wide, and this is just athletes, in general, there’s a wide spectrum of the different personalities and the different types of humans that you will come across. Some of those can be very much like her, where it’s all or nothing, or once I find something that works, I’m going to do it as consistently as possible. And they’re very detail-oriented. They want to know why they’re doing certain things, they want to know how it works, you know, this, that, and the other. So that would be like her end of the spectrum, which I find is very common with individual sports, like golfers, tennis players, or track and field athletes, like a baseball pitcher. Typically, they’re very detailed, most of the time, not all the time. And then in team sports, basketball, you know, football, you get those less detailed guys, depending on the position. I feel like you get those less detailed guys, there’s less structured guys, those guys that kind of fly by the seat of their pants. That can be.

 

Bethany Flores: That was me up until two years ago.

 

Randy Flores: So I think what you use with certain people can even differ in the setting, you know, we’re just talking about our team and NBA guys. So I think like your very detailed guys or guys that have a set routine and want some consistency, I think, you know, we don’t have low-level lasers yet. But I think that’s something we’re going to get. And I think those guys would be very into it along with some of the other things that she does, which some of our guys do now, to an extent, is some PRI-type breath work and thinking about ribcage orientation versus the pelvis and things that are a little bit more granular than some of the other larger movements you might do. So I think it depends on the athlete. But yeah, I’d say there are similarities between things that our guys do and she does. But I think for her, it’s like, you know, 10 times what some of those guys might do. Like I think some of those guys do cold showers and do mouth tape and do that stuff. But it’s not going to be everybody. You know, it varies quite a bit at that level.

 

Bethany Flores: Yeah, I’d say it varies too. Like, I mean, I would say in every sport, even in CrossFit, like, I was that type of person for the first five years of my career where I was just flying by the seat of my pants and just hoping for the best and constantly abusing my body. And hey, it worked. Got me to the games five times in a row. So why would I change anything? And so I think the last two years happening the way that they did was on purpose. I believe that for myself. I think everything happens for a reason. And it allowed me to stop myself in my tracks and kind of get to the bottom of myself and fix some things that not only helped me in my CrossFit career but that’ll help me as a future wife, future mom, and just being a better type of myself as a person. So yeah.

 

Randy Flores: When I read it with a laser specifically, like in our setting, for me, I feel like all of our guys get on the table and do something like recovery-wise, where they might do some type of activation or some type of manipulation when it comes to mobility pre-workout. So at some point, all of them are getting on the table, and it might be post-workout, and they might be getting a massage. So for something like the laser, I don’t see a reason that everybody couldn’t use it, you know what I mean? Because it can complement some of the other things they’re doing. Maybe they’re on the table getting shockwave or they’re getting, I don’t know, dry needling done or something else. But in the meantime, that laser can be on some other point of their body or even on the point, you know, of focus at that time. So it’s kind of like, if it works, why not do it at the same time, you know, and it becomes very, very efficient that way. So I definitely see even with those guys that aren’t going to do it on their own or aren’t going to want to take it into a performance setting, why not have it on them while they’re already getting something else done.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells 

you look at doctors who are who have been using lasers for a long time are really knowledgeable in their area of expertise. They call it stacking, so they’ll stack lasers with with different therapies that they’re doing. And to your point, Randy, yeah, like it’s really really easy to stack lasers on pretty much anything, you can sit in a in a in a cold plunge with a laser on your head. We’ve seen Doc’s in the in the neurological space. So like Danica Patrick, for example, we had her on on our podcast in the in the office where she gets, she sees her doc, and doing actual, like, agility type movements like quick, quick hand motions, while lasering the certain aspects of the brain has a performance aspect to it. And so, yeah, lasers are unique in the fact that you can literally add them to any other therapy that you’re doing to enhance the therapy, or just alone, you can just use lasers alone and shine it on a certain part of the body that has a physiological effect. So it’s, yeah, it’s a unique to unique modality and that in that respect, it ties in with every other thing that you do. Your normal routines. And yeah,

 

 

Dr. Jason Green: I was just gonna say, I’m just curious to see for you guys and for your athletes. I’m curious to see what you, what, what are going to be the most common stacks that you do. And I think people are going to be curious to know that, right? Because, you know, in our world and in addition to stacking to the public-facing community, we call it enhancements, right? So you might have a massage that’s enhanced with laser, or you might have one modality that’s enhanced with a laser in some capacity. And that resonates well with patients. They understand that language and understand that verbiage. I think athletes will as well. It’s about what energies you guys are going to see the most value out of when you’re really taking a tissue and you’re extending it out as much as possible doing some sort of dynamic or static stretch shining laser on there getting that molecular benefit to it is going to be something I’m curious about because there’s going to be a lot more emerging research that comes out in time and kind of permeate your applications to it. And I’m curious to see what you guys are going ahead with in time as soon as you guys get your hands on it more consistently.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: and I believe I may be wrong on this. I believe low-level laser therapy is the most researched modality in history. I think I may be wrong on that. So someone may call me out and fact-check me on this, but I think if you do like a PubMed search, there are over like 12,000 research articles on the use of low-level laser therapy for all kinds of different things. And so yeah, then the research and it’s growing. I think it’s also growing faster than any other modality as well. It’s pretty fascinating.

 

Bethany Flores: Yeah, be intrigued. Yeah, for me, I definitely stacked it. I stacked it when I meditated in the morning and at night. And then definitely with the PRI exercises. I would stack it with that so it was pretty interesting.

 

Randy Flores: Yeah, and at the games like even in the back in the warm-up area, she was sure it looks pretty crazy to like some other athletes back there, and definitely got some looks but while she’s in different poses or doing some of her PRI stuff or doing like, what’s that balloon called that you have? The ISO panic? Yeah, just different things to get her props. I had the laser honor in the back. So I’m sure that was a sight to see for some other people, which I’m not surprised. Most notably some of the people that are on the other end of the spectrum, like there were a few athletes that actually did fairly well. But there’s one girl I won’t name specifically, but she didn’t seem to warm up at all, which is crazy to me. But insane. Yeah, I can’t do that. Anyway, but yeah, so we would, she would stack it on her own, like set it on something in the morning, or if I wasn’t here, like just day to day, multiple times a day. And then like, free of that. Or even back in the hotel room. whenever she’s recovering. I was holding it. And just kind of scanning different areas of her spine.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: So what does, what does the next year look like for you guys?

 

Bethany Flores: Do it all over again, basically, yeah. And it’s a long season for both of us. But it’s actually kind of cool are our seasons lined up pretty well because this month, particularly every year is usually off for both of us. And then it’s just like back to the grind in September for the rest of the love and months of the year. So yeah, my goal, our goal, probably compete for another two or three years. And then we talked about, you know, having a family. So hopefully, we get to do that if it works out. And then I am always a competitor at heart. So hopefully, I get to do some type of competitive thing the rest of my life, whether it’s CrossFit or something else, but it’s been very enjoyable to do CrossFit because it’s the thing closest to gymnastics for me. And I think that’s why I switched to so many sports until I found CrossFit because I was like yeah, I like it. But there was always a but but with CrossFit there’s not a but because you get everything in just a big huge melting pot. So yeah, for me it’s hopefully compete for another couple of years and then have some little mini Randy’s get back into competing. Hopefully, there’s been a lot of CrossFit athletes that have had children and then competed again. So it’s really cool.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: I wanted to ask you this question I came across an interview of Randy, and you were talking about, you know, back in I think it was 2020 in the games and COVID. And Randy said something in the interview was really smart. It was like there’s a purpose behind this. We don’t know what it is. And it sucks when you’re in that moment where you’re looking working towards something all of a sudden, like, your dream kind of gets shattered. But it’s so it’s been a few years since that has that kind of like sometimes you don’t have the answer of like, what’s the purpose? Why is this happening? It has that have you started to figure out what that is yet? Is that has that become more clear?

 

Bethany Flores: Yes, it’s just a self-growth journey, for sure. There was a lot of low self-esteem and low self-respect for myself. But I think through the last few years, I’ve just really grown as a person. And that’s always like a fork in the road decision when things like that happen, like you can either just give up and be like, well, this isn’t for me. Or you can decide be like no, like, there’s always something that you can do. So I definitely got to work on the mental side the last couple of years, which was very necessary, not only for my career but just in life in general. And he’s kind of seen me blossom as a person. So it’s been really cool. And I’m definitely not done growing. There’s a lot more to go. But I think through this process of the last two or three years, it’s just allowed me to blossom as a person. And honestly, I think if I didn’t go through the last two years, I wouldn’t have made it through the season this year. So that was really cool to respect myself and say no to a lot of things in the gym and still be able to compete at the highest level. You guys are gonna be really good parents.

 

Randy Flores: Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see. Yeah.

 

Bethany Flores: What about you? What’s what’s next for you? These next couple

 

Randy Flores: Well, I guess I’ll be a dad and three years.

 

Bethany Flores: You’re already a dog dad.

 

Randy Flores: Oh, well. Yeah. Have a dog for a creature dies. Bella does just 80% of the day. Yeah. Yeah. So we’re a dog parents right now. Yeah, training I think just continue to ride this this NBA lifestyle until, you know, kids come around I do think we’ve kind of talked about that it’s gonna be harder whenever just with the travel schedule. And there are definitely people that do it. You know, have kids but being on the road for 40 Something games, the years going to be tough. So I guess we’ll cross that bridge whenever we get there. But until then, just continue to to ride this NBA wave. And I feel like I’m in a good spot. I’m in an organization that I want to be in an area that we want to be at. I’ll be at La I’m not sure. Is the ideal place to raise kids? I don’t know.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: No comment.

 

Randy Flores: So yeah, I mean, until then, I think I’m pretty set on what I’m doing where I’m at. And really enjoying it. It’s definitely like, not only has it been way different every year, but it’s different, like every single day is a different challenge, a different puzzle piece or puzzle to figure out as far not even just from the training aspect, but just the managing personalities, the consistently changing roster that you get the coaching staff has been different from year to year. Even the front office, a little bit has changed. So there’s definitely always something to navigate, but it is, for the most part, fun. Obviously, there are difficult days. But that’s any profession, I think so. Yeah, I’ll keep this going. We’ve talked about maybe some projects for ourselves down the road. I know she wants to write a book at some point and has already kind of just started brainstorming on that. And I think that’s something that’s come out of this journey over the last two years for her as it’s given her more time to kind of put her thoughts on paper. And, you know, I don’t think that’s organized yet. But you know, there’s no, there’s no set due date for that. So I think something she’s going to continue to work on. And then we’ve talked about together putting out programming and stuff like that. I think a lot of people do online programming, but we want to kind of do something a little bit different, hopefully. So I think that’s kind of the more near future. But I think both of us recognize that, oh, I’ll be it. We have really cool professions. She’s a professional athlete, and I work with, you know, professional athletes. I think we both feel like we have a higher purpose. And we’re still consistently trying to discover that. So we don’t have the answer to like, what long term might look like for us, but we’re going to continue to grow and see where it takes us. Yeah.

 

Bethany Flores: It’s a good answer. Yeah, I think we always just want more for ourselves. And it’s like, enjoy what you do have and be proud of what you are doing. But I don’t think the train stops for us. So it’s just,

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: I love this. Yeah.

 

Dr. Jason Green: Spoken like true athletes too, right? I totally love that. And it’s most important to, you know, one of the things that was most important for me in my journey is just stopping to enjoy the journey. Right? Yeah. Personation. And so, you know, it’s not about the next thing. You guys are in really special places in your life, places that then, you know, 99.9% of people don’t ever get to. And so enjoy that ride while it lasts. And I’m excited to watch both of your stories blossom for years to come. Yeah.

 

Bethany Flores: Thank you. Thanks. Appreciate that.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Of course, of course. Well, thanks, guys for being on the podcast. This is a really fun interview. And I know that the listeners will have a lot of people listen to this episode. And I think you’ll get a lot from your journey. And I love, you know, I think if we were to kind of sum up this episode, the word I think Bethany, you said, is growth mindset, really kind of encapsulates what we’re talking about. And yeah, I wish you guys the best. Your career at the Lakers, your career, Bethany as an athlete. You guys are doing some amazing things. And it’s I will continue to follow you guys. Now that I know you and I’ll be curious to see where this world takes you guys, and no doubt it’ll go somewhere really nice.

 

Randy Flores: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for having us. Thanks for being on we appreciate Awesome. So for everyone listening, thank you guys so much for listening. If you found this episode valuable, please share it with somebody that can also get value from it. And we look forward to speaking with you on the next episode. Thanks, guys.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Thanks for listening to the Laser Light Show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about our Erchonia lasers, just head on over to erchonia.com There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and leads to upcoming live events, as well as our Erchonia’s community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.

 

About The Guest(s):

 

Bethany Flores: Former professional CrossFit athlete with a background in gymnastics and a passion for fitness and overcoming injuries.

Randy Flores: Strength and conditioning coach for the Los Angeles Lakers with a background in sports and a passion for training and helping athletes reach their full potential.

 

Summary:

Bethany and Randy Flores, a power couple in the fitness and sports industry, share their backgrounds and how they met. Bethany, a former professional CrossFit athlete, overcame a back injury and pursued various sports and fitness activities. Randy, a strength and conditioning coach for the Los Angeles Lakers, developed a passion for training and helping athletes while growing up. They emphasize the importance of working together and staying connected in their relationship, even amidst their busy schedules.

 

Key Takeaways:

 

Bethany’s journey from competitive gymnastics to becoming a professional CrossFit athlete.

Randy’s introduction to sports and his passion for training and helping athletes.

The couple’s commitment to working together and staying connected in their relationship.

 

Quotes:

 

“I grew up doing gymnastics competitively… I now have been a professional CrossFit athlete the last seven years.” – Bethany Flores

“I grew passionate for just gaining an understanding on how the human body worked, how it adapted to exercise, and how I could maybe train others to adapt in a positive way, too.” – Randy Flores

“Our goal when we got together was to do as much work with each other as possible… we’re celebrating every day, once a week, so it adds up really quickly.” – Bethany Flores

“It keeps us continually learning about each other and accountable.” – Randy Flores

Podcast Ep. 77: Bridging Veterinary Medicine Worlds with Dr. Dave Huff

Dr. Andrew Wells: Hello, this is Dr. Andrew Wells, my good friend, Dr. Jason green. And today we have a special episode of a laser light show. We have two amazing guests, we have Randy and Bethany Flores and we’re really looking forward to to getting a chance to interview them.

 

Transcript

Speakers: 

Dr. Andrew Wells

Dr. Chad Woolner

Dr. Dave Huff

Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show. 

Transform Animal Care with Cutting-Edge Technology – Click Here to Explore the Erchonia Vet Laser System and Enhance Your Veterinary Practice Today!

Dr. Dave Huff: Yes.

Dr. Andrew Wells: It is, yeah.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s fantastic. What’s really exciting and cool is that we’ve been chatting with a lot more veterinarians these days. So, it’s kind of cool, getting more exposure in the veterinarian world. It’s good to have you on again. How are things in your world?

Dr. Dave Huff: Oh, everything’s good, a little hot in North Carolina right now this time of year, but no complaints.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Awesome. What’s new? What have you been up to?

Dr. Dave Huff: Well, obviously, always working on different patients with the laser and trying to find different applications. Looking to try to get it some applications, even with some of the new cancer vaccines. We’re exploring if we can incorporate that in some way, shape, or form to stimulate the body’s response positively. Excited about some opportunities to work with technology outside the laser. One of the benefits of the lasers is no known contraindications; I can mix and use it with all kinds of different opportunities. So, looking to do that and also exploring partnerships with some allergy medications and diabetic medications to combine this technology with traditional medicine. Veterinary Medicine is unique because we are our own chiropractors, our own veterinarians, MDS surgeons, so we can incorporate this technology in many ways that are difficult on the human side.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Wow, what a cool way of incorporating these into the conventional veterinarian world. Maybe talk a little bit about, let’s kind of break those down, if you don’t mind. I’m interested in learning a bit more about cancer vaccines for veterinary. I’m not familiar with that. Maybe let’s explore that a bit.

Dr. Dave Huff: There are a couple of companies out there now where you can send a biopsy of a tumor mass, and they can make an autogenous vaccine with that tumor mass. After the mass is removed, or part of it is removed, we can give that back to the animal on the equine side, on the dog and cat side, to stimulate the body’s T lymphocytes and macrophages to fight that tumor. I feel very strongly that the laser has an opportunity to work in conjunction with that, to stimulate that and see if we can’t get an even more positive response in the T lymphocytes and in the body’s white blood cells as it fights whatever remaining cancer is there. So, I’ve used it as an adjunct to cancer therapy without these, but I think this is a great opportunity to combine that new technology and different modalities.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s interesting that you say that because I would imagine that other potential therapies that could be paired need to be very thoughtfully considered. I’m assuming you don’t simply want something to just entirely blunt any sort of an inflammatory response after that because the whole idea is to trigger a response from the body, right? So, it’s very similar to PRP therapy, right? If you’re injecting PRP, which I don’t know if they do that with animals.

Dr. Dave Huff: We do PRP; it’s another place where we can use this in conjunction. Many of the companies that are producing PRP are producing these vaccines, this autogenous response for the cancer cells.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Right. When you’re describing that, to me, what it sounded like is more like a stem cell derivation or a PRP derivation, more than a conventional traditional vaccine derivation. But that’s interesting because, at the end of the day, what you’re doing with the laser is not necessarily trying to simply push something down or shove something down. We’re trying to enhance the body’s innate ability to do what it needs to do to correct it. You know what I mean?

Dr. Dave Huff: Oh, absolutely. I mean, that’s one of the beauties of the laser; we communicate with the body, and then the body does the rest.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Right.

Dr. Dave Huff: It’s not us necessarily trying to make sure the drug reaction is perfect. What we’re trying to do is just get the body to respond and respond in a positive way. And it does, I mean, routinely, it does. So when we know that and it’s documented, obviously, that we can get the body to respond to the laser, and then the body does what it’s supposed to do.

Dr. Chad Woolner: I’m curious, from a research and objective measurement side of things. What are you looking at? Or what would you be looking at from a design standpoint to measure the effectiveness or response?

Dr. Dave Huff: Yeah, that’s an excellent question. And honestly, obviously, I’m a lowly veterinarian. So I have a practice. It’s hard for me to do double blind studies. And it’s hard for me to say, Oh, I’ll do this and set this up. So obviously, most of what I’m going to be involved in is just the response to treat. How do we get a response? And it’s why I hesitate ever to talk too much about cancer and the laser because I don’t want people going out thinking, oh, I can cure cancer with it. No, no, that’s not what I’m trying to say, right?

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’ll be the title of the episode, “Dr. Dave Huff cures cancer with Erchonia laser.”

Dr. Dave Huff: Yeah, that’ll be great. I’ll be infamous and famous.

Dr. Chad Woolner: This will go viral for sure, maybe not the way you want it to, and I totally understand that. I guess my question would be, let’s just assume, hypothetically, that you didn’t have the constraints that you have, that you could design it. Or can you think of your head things that we would look at or measure, though?

Dr. Dave Huff: Absolutely. In fact, with one of the groups, I’d love to, as they evaluate T lymphocyte response to the, to the to what they’re doing. So we could absolutely, that’s where I think if we can monitor the lymphocyte response and see we get a better response in that part of the white blood cell parameter to get them the proper response against the cancer.

Dr. Chad Woolner: I would assume three groups, right, where you’ve got no intervention, the control group, you’ve got just that this, you know, the tumor response group, whatever you, the therapy, the vaccine, and then you’ve got vaccine therapy plus Erchonia laser on top of, I mean.

Dr. Dave Huff: That would be a great study, but honestly, they’ve done some of their own research to see that T lymphocyte response. So I hope I could just even do the laser with it and then compare it to what they’ve done.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, they’ve already, yeah, you’re right.

Dr. Dave Huff: That’s one of the ways that it’s judged and beyond just the response to treatment. So I think there are going to be some parameters. I’ll be honest, I’m going to work with them. And I’d love them to help me direct that because that’s their expertise.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s great. What a brilliant. Yeah, that’s amazing. So you’d said cancer. Was that what you said?

Dr. Dave Huff: Two other areas, I guess that I’d like to see it. There’s a couple of new diabetic. Well, we all see the commercials on TV on the human side for non-insulin-dependent diabetes. And that has just entered the veterinary market. And how it works is one of the ways it works is as we remove glucose from the body, and then the body can heal. And if you get rid of the glucose in the body, heal well, obviously, I feel like this device is great for healing. And I’ve used it in some diabetic cats, specifically, where I just couldn’t get good responses, and I’ve been able to get some response. Now obviously, if you need insulin, you need insulin. But that would be another place where this would be a great adjunct because one of the worries in that field in that treatment is diabetic ketoacidosis could reduce the risk of DKA. With the laser, that would be a place if we can get the body to heal faster. If we can get the body to respond faster and better, would we reduce some of those risks? And again, I’m speaking just off the top of my head, but things I’m thinking about, you’re talking about what am I thinking about? These aren’t things I’ve done, but this is stuff I want to do. And this is all emerging technology. But why not utilize the laser and hopefully stimulate other people who have better ideas than me and say, hey, where can I use this? But if you just think a little bit outside the box and realize you have a device with no known contraindications, you can mix it with anything. Then think a little bit about we know the laser speeds healing. And we know with this diabetic drug, one of the keys to it is getting the body to heal. For God’s sakes, why would we not pair this with that technology? Yeah, for sure. From an allergy standpoint, again, a lot of the new allergy drugs that are out there, we’re trying to modulate the immune response without suppressing it. So instead of steroids, the traditional method of allergy controls where you pound it with steroids and you get the response, but you get a lot of negative side effects. So can we pair this technology with some of these immune modulators and say, Hey, can we get a better immune modulation when we pair this with traditional medicine?

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, it certainly sounds like a far more elegant and natural approach than some of the more, I don’t want to say clumsy, but just kind of more of the blunt, kind of hammer 35 years.

Dr. Dave Huff: So, I’ve been down the clumsy, blunt path, you know, yeah.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. You know, that’s one of the things that I really appreciate about Erchonia as a company, especially as it pertains to their relationship with Andrew and me. They give us a tremendous amount of autonomy on this podcast to have these theoretical, hypothetical, and even downright experimental conversations with practitioners. While we do our best to make it clear, joking aside, when we say something like “Dave Huff cures cancer,” it’s crucial that they recognize, as you just mentioned, the high degree of safety inherent in these discussions. This allows us to delve into these realms without the constraints that other therapies might face. You don’t want to turn a therapy into an episode of Jackass with a disclaimer of “Do not try this at home.” If people hear about lasers being used for something and ask their practitioner to do it, the worst-case scenario is nothing really happens, you know? The best-case scenario is something really cool happens, which is just exciting. I love that. Absolutely love that about this.

Dr. Dave Huff: I always try to think about the process of what I’m trying to gain here, right? Yeah. And as veterinarians, our patients don’t talk to us in the traditional sense. So, we’re always problem-solving, thinking outside the box because our patients aren’t providing verbal feedback. The benefit we have as a group of doctors is that we all have a bit of outside-the-box thinking because we have to. Our patients aren’t helping us in a conventional way. The good news is, we don’t get lies. If an animal is in pain, it shows, and that honesty helps guide our treatment. So, the laser has great healing properties. It’s an excellent anti-inflammatory without suppressing the immune system. It stimulates the immune system when needed. Where can I integrate that into traditional medicine and enhance the overall treatment?

Dr. Chad Woolner: When you talk about using it for diabetes and blood sugar-related issues, do you laser over the pancreas of the animal?

Dr. Dave Huff: It’s a good question, and the answer is yes and no. In that specific instance, we’re trying to get the body itself to heal, not just a localized effect. The glucose is in all the tissues, causing problems. When drugs remove glucose from the system, it allows the body to heal. I’m not a human doctor, but the A1C numbers monitored and dropped work on a similar principle. It’s about getting the body to heal faster and better with the laser after using a drug to remove glucose from the system.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That makes total sense.

Dr. Andrew Wells: We talk a lot about stacking therapies on this podcast. We’ve heard from other practitioners who do the same. However, we’ve never heard this concept of stacking in conjunction with medications. This is a first, and I think the genius here is the out-of-the-box thinking. The podcast’s whole point is to share good ideas and the benefits of laser therapy. What I want listeners to take away is to be creative in how they stack therapies, especially if you’re a veterinarian, combining laser therapy with medications or immune-boosting therapies. I think that’s brilliant.

Dr. Dave Huff: Yeah, it is, and it continues. I’ve used it, for example, with parvovirus, an intestinal disease that attacks puppies. There are immune stimulants and treatments available, and I’ve combined the laser with them. Not only does it help quiet inflammation in the gut, but it also aids the immune system in battling back. Veterinarians have the luxury of being pharmacists, doctors, chiropractors, and we can combine laser therapy with other treatments under one roof.

Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s really cool is that this podcast, and Enter Konya as a company, are a little different than most. Often, there’s a binary thought process between conventional Western medicine and complementary and alternative medicine. Laser therapy, applied the way you’re describing, helps bridge that gap and facilitates intelligent conversations for the benefit of the patient.

Dr. Dave Huff: I embrace non-traditional approaches along with traditional medicine. Laser therapy, for me, is a perfect fit—outside-the-box yet combined with traditional medicine daily.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolutely. What a powerful way to practice. It’s fascinating to see how veterinarians, in a sense, provide a glimpse into the past when doctors had to be versatile in various fields, like orthopedics, surgery, and pharmacy. It’s cool to see that through the lens of veterinary medicine.

Dr. Dave Huff: I agree, but I’m not gonna turn down any cardiologist reference. If I got a bad heart case, I’m referring it to a cardiologist so.

Dr. Andrew Wells: And I was gonna say, I was gonna say the exact opposite. This reminds me of an old Seinfeld episode where Kramer goes to the veterinarian because he’s like, they’re way smarter than doctors, they’re gonna know how to take care of this animal, that animal. As you’re talking, the thing I like about you, Dr. Huff, is you’re talking about how you take care of patients. I would see you if I had trouble because you are a creative thinker. And I think in healthcare, to Chad’s point, that’s really what’s missing today, maybe there’s a better word than outside of the box or creative thinking; it’s collaborative thinking. It is not a bad thing. I think that’s that dogmatic? No, truly, it’s the opposite. That’s the problem is that both camps, when you get really entrenched on the extremes, get really rigid and dogmatic and very, very deeply entrenched inside the box thinking, right? And that’s the, you know, it just it hinders you from creatively problem-solving, I think.

Dr. Dave Huff: I think everybody obviously, no one likes to get outside their comfort zone. And when they practice in an area, and they get comfortable with it, and they see results, then, you know, it’s easy to get trapped, if you will. But, you know, I’m an old-school guy, in many regards, I’m sure my some of the doctors that I work with, who are younger, look at me sometimes go, how’d you do to do that and why? I’ve done it for 35 years. So I guess I come across some things and but I do enjoy incorporating new technologies and incorporating new ideas. And but I’ve always been a critical thinker, and I love trying to figure out what I’m doing and why. And then applying the technology. Yeah.

Dr. Chad Woolner: For sure. Yeah, I wish I’d be curious to see like, we could do a meeting like let’s put some maybe nephrologists or maybe like, Gastro doc, and like, hey, how I would take care of the patient this way, Dr. Huff, how would you do this? If it was a dog and see if the information can be gleaned from the luxury that you have of being able to kind of experiment in creative ways. I think that’d be a really fascinating experiment that we could do to maybe translate some of this over to the human, the human side of healthcare. Yeah.

Dr. Dave Huff: And it is hard. I mean, I mean, I started, and I was mixed practice, you know, I did, I’ve done cattle, I’ve done ostrich, I’ve done horse, dogs, cats. And even I saw, you know, early on in my career, that boy, even now the demands of the owners, the demands of the staff. I’m sorry, not the staff, the demands of the knowledge base, what you have to do in veterinary medicine, it’s very hard to do all the species anymore, right? I mean, I just concentrate on dogs and cats because I can’t keep up with the equine and the advances. I mean, veterinary medicine is great. We’ve had tons of advances, and the vet schools are amazing at the tools and bells and whistles that they have to do things for dogs that we couldn’t dream of 15-20 years ago. But it is, the technology is there. And hopefully, as veterinarians, we’re trained to have to think with it without information, if you will, sometimes that the human side is luxury with.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Are you seeing these lasers making any sort of inroads or advancements into more mainstream veterinary hospitals, veterinary education, anything like that that you’re seeing?

Dr. Dave Huff: Well, I think for sure, it’s becoming more and more common for laser therapy. Obviously, I caution, you know, laser therapy, lasers just aren’t lasers, right? I mean, we’re talking about a class two laser that’s photochemical, not photothermal, and there are dramatic differences. As soon as I talk about this, there’s gonna be so many people with a photothermal laser, and we can’t use that around cancer. Well, I can’t use a photothermal laser around cancer, but I can sure use a photochemical laser like Erchonia. So that’s, that’s some of the battle I see if you will, is because, there, there are other technologies that are called a laser that have contraindications that I don’t have, if you will by using Erchonia. So that’s important. And that’s probably the biggest difference if you will. It’s getting more and more common. But identifying the safety margin that this technology has is so different than some of the others.

Dr. Chad Woolner: If I can just be so bold as to say, it does become a little bit more challenging. On top of that, when you have so many of these companies who are piggybacking or leveraging Erchonia studies to support their company, their products, you know, when they really shouldn’t be not only from a we didn’t do this study standpoint, that’s one thing. But it’s like, it’s like not even in the same realm in terms of the same mechanism of action. And so how in the world can you even make that kind of a claim? It’s, it’s kind of crazy to see that, but yet it happens.

Dr. Dave Huff: It happens. And on the veterinary side, it’s even less controlled because, you know, there’s not really FDA studies required, which is good and bad. I mean, veterinarians all the time work outside if you will, outside what is considered proven medicine, right? I mean, we use drugs all the time that are off-label. We do a lot of stuff off-label because we have to; the studies just aren’t done. The work just isn’t done. And that’s a double-edged sword in and of itself because, you know, I don’t have to prove it works. I can just use it. Well, that’s a very double-edged sword, for sure. And that’s what I see. And that’s one of the things I battle because I shouldn’t say I battle, but I see a problem in the industry is that, you know, there’s no proof that it works. And, and I, and I hesitate because I don’t want to bash just laser because it works, but still with different technology. And so when I speak to veterinarians, if I’m at a continuing education meeting, or as speaking, I try to be very specific that this is apples and oranges technology. Yeah, use the term laser. And try to emphasize that that’s important in understanding how and why this technology works.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, it’s funny, you say that. I was chatting with a friend of mine, who’s a healthcare professional. I’m not going to name his name, nor am I going to even tell what profession he was in. But he’s a doctor. And he uses a laser in his practice. And I had started just, and I wasn’t trying to grill him, I really wasn’t because I don’t claim to be the end-all-be-all expert of lasers or anything. But I was just asking him some specifics of just like, well, what wavelength? And he looked at me with this blank stare, and he had no idea what I was referring to in terms of wavelength. And he’s like, Well, it, we use it for this, that, or the other. And I’m like, but that’s not what I’m asking. And clearly, he just has not been educated by the company. That company just basically put it into his hands, point, shoot, go. And even crazier is that this type of laser was, on some level or another, an ablative laser. And so all the more reason to be like man, if you don’t understand the mechanism behind it, and what I’m asking in terms of simple what wavelength and or what frequencies, you know, these whole ideas. And even to that degree, you know, the level of power that’s there, you know, you’re utilizing, because obviously, if it’s an ablative laser, it’s going to be a high-powered laser. But that’s the thing I just think for a lot of these companies, education is not as important as is secondary to, you know, the marketing, the sales, you know, sure it’s safe enough. Sure, it’ll do this, that or the other, but clearly, with our Erchonia, our Erchonia has research efficacy and safety, first and foremost, everything else, you know, really making sure so as.

Dr. Dave Huff: I’ve talked to many of the guys that are coding, and they said, truthfully, guys, if we wanted a more powerful laser, we could make it tomorrow. There’s no point in doing it. This works. And that doesn’t. So why would we do it? So it’s not like, well, we have to make this because this is all we can make. Yeah, we make this because it works. Yeah. And we have the data to prove how and why it works.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s such a great point. I think that’s the thing is, I think a lot of the kind of higher-powered laser companies almost treat it as such. Well, you can’t do that. No, they totally can, they choose not to very deliberately, right. So that’s hilarious. That’s awesome. Well, what else? What other exciting things do you have that you foresee in the upcoming future here in your world, Dr. Huff?

Dr. Dave Huff: Boy, I hope some golf in some really good courses. I got off the course today, so I’m ready to go back already. But yeah, you know, the laser. I’m amazed how often I don’t use it. I mean, I could use it on every single patient that walks in the door. So I just try to keep a very open mind and say, how and why can I use this and why not use it? And I really enjoy educating people about it. I mean, I really enjoyed doing, I do see meetings, I do webinars for Erchonia. And I really enjoy educating people about it because I’m passionate that this technology can help your patients. And this technology can help your practice. I mean, if you want to get down to the nuts and bolts of it, too, from an economic standpoint, it’s a great tool, just to have it from an economic standpoint in your practice. And we’re all looking for edges there, right? I’m not trying to be greedy. But let’s be honest, right? If I can’t keep the doors open, I can’t help anybody. So, you know, any place that I can get a benefit there. So I would say education, I really enjoy speaking to veterinarians and getting the feedback and, and doing that. But I’m sure next week, I hope I have three new ideas, right? Because that’s kind of the way I look at it too.

Dr. Chad Woolner: And Dr. Huff, for those veterinarians who are listening who want to kind of learn more from you and what you’re doing. What or is there a place that they can go to get kind of a list of events that you’ll be speaking at?

Dr. Dave Huff: I’m Yeah, Erchonia obviously is a great place to go there to Erchonia’s website or to contact someone there. They know. They arrange everything for me. So they know better than I do probably where I’m going next. But that’s a good location, obviously. I’m sure. I don’t know if we have my email or whatever, that we can add to this. But people can always contact me through Erchonia Malia. And Erchonia has all my contact information as well. So she’s the veterinary representative for all of Erchonia. So yeah, there’s there’s places that they can get that information. Well, I don’t have a cue card I can put up here.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s okay. We’ll put it. We’ll put it in the show notes for everybody, for sure. We’ll make sure we have paying for those. So Andrew, any final thoughts before we wrap up?

Dr. Andrew Wells: And Dr. Huff, I’ll throw this out again. We it was great having you on the first episode. This is a fantastic episode. We’d love to have you on again at some point down the road. And we really appreciate your wisdom and your guidance and your creative thinking with using lasers for animal patients. So thanks so much for your time and being on the podcast again. Absolutely.

Dr. Dave Huff: I’m glad to do it. I’ll do it any day ending in Y.

Dr. Chad Woolner: There you go. Nice and flexible. We love it. Huge thank you, Doctor Help, we really do appreciate you. And for those listening, we hope that this has been engaging, enlightening, entertaining, inspiring, and share this with others. We know that Dr. Huff is doing some amazing work for Erchonia as well as for veterinarians in general. And we really, really appreciate him. So thanks for listening, everybody. Have a great day, and we’ll talk to you on the next episode.

Thanks for listening to the Laser Light Show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about our Erchonia lasers, just head on over to erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources, including research news and leads to upcoming live events, as well as our Erchonia’s community where you can access for free additional resources, including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening, and we will catch you on the next episode.

Summary

Today on “The Laser Light Show,” we are pleased to introduce a guest whose diverse veterinary experiences and specialized interests make him a beacon in the field of animal healthcare. Dr. Dave Huff’s journey, skills, and innovations promise a rich discussion, particularly as it relates to low level laser therapy for animals.

Hailing from the prestigious NC State College of Veterinary Medicine, Dr. Dave Huff began his journey into the world of veterinary practice in 1989. After dedicating two years to a small animal facility in Pennsylvania, his roots called him back to North Carolina, where he served both small and large animals at the Neuse River Veterinary Hospital in Wendell. His journey then took him south to Beaufort, South Carolina, for four enriching years, but like a compass pointing north, he found himself back at Neuse River Veterinary Hospital in 1999, a testament to his enduring connection to the community.

Throughout his illustrious career, Dr. Huff has nurtured an array of interests and specialties, with a particular flair for small animal surgery. One of his groundbreaking affiliations began in 1991 with ICG/Synbiotics/Zoetis, establishing him as a pioneer in canine semen freezing. Notably, he was the first in North Carolina to launch such a center, and among the first three on the entire east coast—a true trailblazer!

Always on the lookout for ways to enhance his practice, in 1996, Dr. Huff undertook PennHip radiograph training, adding another feather to his cap. But his passion didn’t stop there. Venturing into the realm of chiropractic care for animals, Dr. Huff has been an advocate and practitioner since 1999.

One of the highlights for our podcast discussion will undoubtedly be his adoption of the Erchonia 3 LT in 2009. With over a decade of experience utilizing this specific tool for his patients, his insights will surely offer a unique perspective on the application and benefits of low-level laser therapy in veterinary practice.

So, listeners, as we delve deep into the nuances of low-level laser therapy with a veterinary twist, we are in the capable hands of Dr. Dave Huff—a true connoisseur in his field. Let’s embark on this illuminating conversation!

Podcast Ep. 76: Unprecedented GVL Laser Study – Pain Relief & Healing

Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody? Dr. Chad Woolner here with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and on today’s episode of the laser light show we have with us special guests and recent published research authors for a brand new study hot off the press. Super excited to have them with us, Dr. Kirk Gair and Dr. Rob Silverman. Good to have you guys here with us. Let’s get started.

 

Transcript

Speakers: 

Dr. Andrew Wells

Dr. Chad Woolner

Dr. Kirk Gair

Dr. Rob Silverman

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show. 

 

Discover groundbreaking research on Low-Level Laser Therapy for pain relief and healing! Click now to explore published studies in Laser in Surgery Medicine, Journal of Pain & Relief, and more by experts like Dr. Kirk Gair and Dr. Rob Silverman.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, everyone, welcome to the show! Super excited to have you all here with us, and thrilled to welcome back once again, Dr. Kirk Gair and Dr. Rob Silverman. Hello, gentlemen. How are you?

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: We’re doing great. Fantastic. How about you, Kirk?

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: I’m doing well. It’s also fantastic. Excited that we got this thing published finally.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah.

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: You’re the guy who wore a mask with me for four years?

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: Yes, exactly. We were both in the most locked-out country.

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Who got this one? That’s what I want to know.

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: Oh, yeah. No, I was covered up, and LA County would come in for surprise inspections on people’s offices. A friend of mine got fined, and they were going to shut down for it. It was wild out here. The craziest thing I saw was, in the midst of a water shortage, they would flood baseball fields to prevent kids from playing. You know, because it’s dangerous to get COVID from home plate to center field. So, we had to waste water to keep kids from playing.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: My favorite thing recently was a post from a school district here. At the time of recording this, Halloween was yesterday, and the school district was saying we don’t want kids wearing masks because it’s disruptive to the learning environment. Exactly. I saw that, and I was like, are we not like, wow. It was the same with my daughter’s school. No Halloween costumes, no masks, because it’s disruptive. Do we not hear the things that we’re saying?

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: And the funny thing was, I was referring to the Batman and Robin masks.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah.

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: Oh, the Batman Robin masks, and we go right into it. I know we’re triggered. We’re triggered into…

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: Andrew got it. One mask like this, and one mask straight across. Batman and Robin was DC, but we’re Marvel Superheroes. Because, you know, GVL, that outstanding laser. Yeah, let’s get you back to Chad because he’s the great man as a ringleader.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: No, I’m super excited. You know, we brought you on, Kirk Gair. You are the reigning champion of the most frequent guest.

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: Am I? All right, cool.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: We had you on, and I think we told you that before. This is solidifying that place. But let’s talk about it. For those listening to this episode, you guys just got done publishing a study that got accepted and is now indexed on PubMed. This is a brand new study for the GDL laser. Let’s talk about that study, what it took to get it published, and all that fun stuff.

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: You know, it’s pretty amazing the volume of work it takes. I had no idea. Rob had an idea since he’s done these studies before. I had no idea when I signed on about how much work it was. Travis told me there’s gonna be a lot of work. So, you know, I didn’t realize that basically for every single patient we saw, it was literally like a notebook this thick of information that we’re doing for each intake. Just evaluating a patient for the case studies, it’s like an hour of work because it’s extremely detailed. We’re getting details on their past history, what have they done, where are they at right now. And then we’re assessing their range of motion for the neck, for the arms, measuring all this stuff, measuring their pain levels, having them rate it. Then we’re doing the 30-minute treatment, and immediately after, we gotta go back and reassess their range of motion and reassess their pain. And then they’re also self-reporting 24 to 48 hours. So it was a ton of work that was well worth it because I know Rob and I talked about this as well afterwards. The results were just mind-boggling. And granted, I’ve been using Erchonia since 2004, so it’s just been mind-blowing results over these years. But the GVL was a whole other level. So I had one guy who came in, a Division I college football player, stuck with like 110 degrees range of motion for 40 years. I do the 30-minute session, he goes to 170. And then his pain dropped from like a seven down to like a two. And the crazy thing is, he comes back in the next week, and he’s still got that range of motion, which just blew my mind. I had another girl who was a college volleyball player, had to stop playing because of a rotator cuff injury. She had been through PT, she’d been through PRP injections, she’s done everything. And she was now coaching and was unable to coach for spiking and serving. One session, her pain’s gone after six years, and she’s out there coaching, spiking, and serving. Just nuts. So I got concerned and actually contacted Travis Morricone and said, “Travis, these results, I don’t think the FDA is gonna believe it because they’re so far above everything.” And he said, “Don’t worry. Rob and the other doc who was out call me, they’re all getting the same results.” So when we submit it, because I couldn’t see their data, they couldn’t see mine. So we couldn’t collude on anything. It’s all sent to the FDA, and they review it. And it was legit, just these amazing changes that we got. And then to put it through peer review, that’s where people are actually looking at it and saying, “Does the research quality legit? Or doesn’t it look like this is faked?” And no, we got it through, got it published, and Rob said it was like 12% of the submissions.

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: 12 percent of the submissions got put in. And to add a little color commentary to what Kirk said, number one, it really speaks volumes to it, not because Kirk and I did, and we’ve had this private conversation, it’s our Erchonia and their science to get an FDA clearance is without question the standard bearer. It’s winning the gold medal, and Kirk did a great job explaining what went into getting an FDA clearance. So when people look for a laser, that FDA clearance is without question the standard bearer. Number two, the results. I mean, I had somebody who had sciatica, and in one visit, sciatica went away. So nerve pain really has a residual effect, typically. But when you look at the results and compare it to other FDA cleared lasers, other lasers in Erchonia, which are great, do not throw them out. No one’s asking you to throw them out. Utilize them. But the GVL, for Kirk—and I’m going to speak for him now—is without question the standard bearer. There was an increase, a decrease in the duration of pain, range of motion, the range of motion over a duration of time. So every metric we used when we compare the two, the Erchonia red and violet lasers and the GVL, the GVL won that. When you compare it to an LED, which is more common on the market, there was no comparison. I always said it’s the prom queen versus your—talked about Halloween yesterday, Dia de Bru Ha, the witch. There is no comparison between the two. So when people come up with that, you can’t compare the GVL to any other lasers or to an LED. And I know we don’t want to go down that rabbit hole. You have to compare it to other lasers that have FDA clearance, and virtually there are none out there.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s over. For docs wondering what’s so special about the GVL, when you think of lasers, most providers think of the red wavelength because you see red everywhere. Is this a situation where this is important to accompany red with green and violet? Is this a substitute? Like how would you explain this to docs if they’re deciding? Do I use red, green, violet? Like what do you—how do you make that decision?

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: I think the easiest way for people to understand it because it is tricky for doctors to understand what the difference is. And I think, well, if I just take my infrared laser or my red laser, what if I just dose it for a longer time? It just doesn’t work that way because there are different energies per photon, different electron volts per photon. And so these are just examples. Let’s say someone goes in and lays down in a UV tanning bed, and they go into an infrared sauna. Each wavelength is gonna give you completely different results. UV tanning, you’re gonna have a unique reaction there where you’re going to melt melanin for a suntan. And it’s also going to trigger vitamin D. This is the key thing. When that vitamin D is being triggered to be produced by exposure to UV light, only penetrates a few microns, it triggers a cascade of reactions for production of vitamin D that now affects the bones, some of the deepest tissue, and also affects you systemically for anti-inflammatory effects and supporting the immune system. You put some red influence on it, you get a completely different result. No matter how much you crank up the infrared sauna, you’re not gonna ever create melanin or vitamin D. My new example for this is it’s kind of like going back to Back to the Future. Remember Back to the Future? You had to get the DeLorean up to 88 miles per hour in order to trigger the reaction to go back in time. And if he’s at 87, you don’t trigger that reaction. You could get a thousand DeLoreans going all different speeds that are less than 88 miles per hour, and you never get the right reaction to trigger the jump in time. That’s what you get with green and with violet wavelengths. You have specific speeds or energies that will trigger specific reactions that are going to happen. And Rob will toss it over to you and give you the layup to explain what are some of those unique reactions you get with the violet and with the green.

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: I really appreciate that because I’m the point guard, I get to finally lob it to you when you’re looking at the idea of electron volts. That’s really what Erchonia lasers are based on—electromagnetic transfer of energy, not heat. Electromagnetic transfer of energy. That energy is based on electron volts. The GVL is the most energetic handheld laser in the world. If you’re looking at a red light or a red wavelength at 635, for argument’s sake, you get about 1.9 electron volts, which is enough to allow the electrons to jump to a higher valence. As you go down the spectrum and get to the green light, you’re about 2.4 electron volts, and with violet, you’re at 3.1. So you’re getting all this energy, imbuing the body, stimulating specific complexes of the mitochondria. Pandora’s box is now open to allow more energy in the body to function because the body is an interconnected system, but it needs energy. You’re taking that laser and providing the energy to stimulate electromagnetic transfer of energy to allow the body to communicate on its own and allow cells to function. It is, for me, really chiropractic because the one thing that all chiropractors have, wherever they are on the spectrum, we all say the body can heal itself; we just gotta get a little hope and a little energy in there. And that energy comes from that GVL.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s absolutely incredible. And I think that’s one of the things that resonate with me so much is, from a philosophical level, that’s what I have kind of seen and or explained to patients is really, at the end of the day, all that the lasers are doing in the most simplistic manner, in terms of explanation to the patient, is giving the body the resources that it needs to self-heal, self-organize, do what it needs to do. So the body intelligently knows exactly what has to happen. The lasers are just providing a necessary resource, that energy, to allow the body to do what it does. And so in terms of that, we’ve talked about on the research, we saw an improvement in range of motion, we saw a reduction in pain. Maybe talk a little bit about what we understand in terms of some of what we do know the body is doing once it receives that energy. Because I know we know, some—I mean, we don’t necessarily know everything, obviously. But we do know some things in terms of the green and the violet wavelengths. So maybe both you speak to that in terms of what’s actually happening at a photochemical reaction level and beyond.

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: For sure. So let’s say right now, I’ve got the GVL here on my head. Okay, so we got green and violet lasers. Here’s an important point to think about: every second this laser is on, there are 100 quadrillion photons that come out. So it is a huge amount of energy. We’re not talking about millions, not tens of billions, or trillions, but quadrillions on there. So let’s say that my skull blocks 98% of it, we’re still getting two quadrillion photons per second that are on here. And you’re gonna get specific, as Rob mentioned, with those energies on here—the 3.1 electron volts per photon of the violet, and the 2.4 of the green—you’re getting specific jumps in the electrons that now create different reactions. So we look at say, with the violet, when you get that on there, you’re going to have specific impacts on the immune system, that support for macrophages. That’s why we have those FDA clearances against nail fungus and against bacteria that create acne, because it actually has that support for the immune system. And Rob has a really great explanation of how it impacts different types of pathogens on there. So we look at that with the violet as a big one. And because it’s so energetic, it’s also better at breaking down scar tissue because it is rearranging the electron configurations and creating this whole cascade of reactions. Stanford University says that it takes just one photon to trigger hundreds to 10s of thousands of reactions. So that’s what we’re getting here. That’s why we can do these from a distance. Or we can do these with low doses because you’re creating a whole cascade, like a domino effect of reactions in the body stimulating things like vascular endothelial growth factor. I love using the violet on the brain because you’ve got that antimicrobial action that you look at all these pathogens that quote the vagus nerve and trigger neuroinflammation in the brain. So the violet is unique in helping with that. When we look at some of the recent research on the green, you’re seeing the green is actually showing some superiority in nerve repair over other wavelengths also for bone repair and also for stem cell production, elastin, and cartilage for chondrocytes. That’s like a unique wavelength that really triggers those ones to repair. So that’s why using three wavelengths together, you really get the best of all three of the worlds by using those. And Rob has a great example of the ping pong balls in the stadium. So I’ll toss it over to you so you can go a little deeper on that.

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: Yeah, the ping pong balls in a stadium. It’s real simple. There’s a—it’s like there are 16,479 mousetraps on a football field. Somebody has too much time in their life. And each electron is a ping pong ball, and Kirk and I are hanging out and arguing, do we want to throw one? Do we want to throw 100? One slips out of our hands, and boom, it hits and cascades because it’s the power of one. You only need enough electron volts to get it going. That’s why the laser does go through shirts. It’s always a question. They have scattered, as Kirk said, however, it may be 80 or 90% scattered. But as long as one gets through, that’s enough to speak to immunity. Because we were really using the GVL during the time of COVID. There’s data that indicates that exposure to low-intensity green light accelerated the antioxidant system and immune system. So that green light condition effectively reduced oxidative stress and promoted immune function. Green light also was great for fibromyalgia because people say, “Why the green? Why do I want the GVL over the other things? Fibromyalgia has now been shown to be an autoimmune condition because of damage to the dorsal root ganglion. So people had significant differences or improvements in pain, sleep, and quality of life. Headaches, believe it or not, no adverse events reported. We’ve all treated headaches as chiropractors; we’ve seen side effects to people with migraines. The green light-emitting diodes resulted in a significant reduction in headaches per day, month, episodic and chronic migraines. All data, all studies. And let’s not forget one thing. And Kirk was great. He said stem cells. Well, how does the epithelial cell in your leaky gut heal? You need stem cells because stem cells start in four to five days. You’re going to ensure this proper turnover and healing rate. And that’s going to lead to epithelial cells. So in my office, in testing gut barrier panels, I found by adding the GVL, my optimization and outcomes have increased exponentially when I’ve utilized the GVL. For those people with tight junctions, leaky gut, and Candida albicans.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Well, and what’s cool about that is, Kirk, you had mentioned, but also that using these wavelengths gives an uptick in the V EGF Bayes factor. So you can almost think of it like, okay, if you’re up ticking V EGF and stem cells, think about it in terms of the construction pathway that’s going to take, you know what I mean. So basically, you’re building highways that are going to then transport the stem cells or the construction crew to the area to start the repair process. And so you’ve got that plus all of the antimicrobial effects plus all of the other repair factors that it’s sending in chondrocytes. If there’s cartilage that needs to be repaired, you talked about the impact on the nerve cells, right? So signals and information that’s being passed through the nerve highways—well, really what a comprehensive tool in terms of being able to address such a wide array. And I think that’s been the thing that was so shocking to both Andrew and myself when we first kind of, years ago, came into this world, we’ll call it, is, you know, I think for many people, practitioners included who have heard of or are familiar with lasers, many, if not most, can attribute or can kind of make the connection between lasers and musculoskeletal issues, right? Lasers, back pain, neck pain, carpal tunnel, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, things like that, where I think that that was where we were at. But where the real kind of new eye-opening world is, exactly what you were saying, Rob, functional medicine, functional neurology, those other areas that people may not necessarily realize or recognize the utilization of lasers goes way beyond just musculoskeletal. Not to say just musculoskeletal, but you know what I mean?

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: Yeah, it’s particularly timely right now too because I think you can always tell what’s happening in society when you look at what the pharmaceutical companies are researching. And pharmaceutical companies right now are really big into trying to figure out drugs to support the mitochondria. Because if you look at things like long COVID, a lot of studies are saying long COVID is a disruption of mitochondrial function and autoimmunity. And so many things, as Dr. Rob mentioned, autoimmunity, fibromyalgia, so many things are autoimmune. My good friend, Dr. Denise Karachi, has taken his functional medicine courses over a decade ago. He’s used the example looking at his daughter. And he said, when he looks at his daughter, who was like seven at the time, he doesn’t wonder if she’s gonna get an autoimmune disease. He wonders when and how many, because he said the environment is so different that you just got to expect pretty much everybody, if they live long enough, is going to have some kind of an autoimmune condition or mitochondrial dysfunction, which leads to things like, you know, advanced aging, cancers, just overall feeling like crap. And we’re looking at what are some things that cause disruptions in mitochondrial function. Glyphosate is a big one, Monsanto’s glyphosate that we get in the diet all the time, even if you’re trying to avoid it, breaking down the gut, disrupting your mitochondrial electron transport chain. How many patients, as you mentioned, musculoskeletal pain, how many are coming in that are on NSAIDs or opioids or Tylenol or aspirin or blood pressure medications or statins or Metformin or antibiotics or antidepressants? All of those disrupt the electron transport chain. If you look at the research on what medications disrupt the electron transport chain, it’s literally all of them. And what’s the laser that supports the electron transport chain? The only way you support all four complexes is by getting the violet for complex one, the green for three, and the red for four. And so that’s what’s really unique about this new approach that we have with utilizing the three wavelengths is everybody is under assault with their mitochondrial function. And we apply these lasers, I have every patient who comes in, I’ve got my FX 635. And I’ve got my GVL on him. So that because I don’t know what complex is broken down. And I’m figuring that all of them are having a problem. And so I’m going to support all of them. And that’s where we can see some of these really powerful changes with patients.

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: Amazing, though, that stacking idea, guys, is great. So you’re taking this guy with a big guy or this guy with an accelerating, making sure you’re getting all the complexes. Just to reiterate, as Kirk said very eloquently before, complex one and two, Violet; complex three, Green; complex four, Red. But here’s the interesting thing. And this is why it’s so important. When your mitochondria shut down, they call it cellular danger response. Your body’s being drained, and your body’s being drained because your immune system needs more energy. Most people don’t realize that the number one function—I should say they know that the number one function of the mitochondria is ATP. The number two function, at close to it, is to support the immune system. So when this is damaged, you go through a cellular danger response, and your mitochondria shut off. Once it’s shut off, people think, oh, it’s a switch off, it’s a switch back on. It’s not. It’s three different checkpoints where you have to go through all four complexes of the mitochondria. So I’ve never found a way other than recently with the GVL plus the red light to be able to hit the three checkpoints to really stimulate and restart the mitochondria. The first thing that comes to mind is long COVID. The second thing that comes to mind is the regular patient walking in. The number one complaint in America for going to the doctor’s office is fatigue. And there it is—mitochondrial dysfunction. Now here’s the issue. When a mitochondria is dysfunctional, unless it’s restarted, it never goes back to its fully functional way. And the only way that I know, so far, nutrition will help. If they don’t push it, it’ll prime the pump. But the laser definitely will take you over the top and get you across the finish line if you do the stacking with the three wavelengths. And that is the true secret sauce.

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: Anyway, if I can kind of stack on something that you have there too is when you’re talking about the mitochondria. What a lot of people don’t realize is you have these things that are called free-floating or cell-free mitochondria in the bloodstream. The Russians, going back to the ’70s, they would use high-energy red wavelengths over the carotid and subclavian arteries because they would say that the energy gets picked up and delivered throughout the body. Well, the other cool thing is these free-floating mitochondria that are in there. And there’s somewhere between 350,000 and like I think was 1.3 million fully functional mitochondria because they used to think it was just fragments that weren’t functional. They now know they’re fully functional that are in every milliliter of blood. Anytime you’re hitting all these large blood vessels, you’re impacting the self-free mitochondria, and then they’ll go into the damaged cells. And they try to heal up those tissues there. So anytime you’re doing this, you’re doing, as you said, repairing those highways and byways and pathways to get the body just to give it the building blocks that it needs to make a new body, in a sense.

 

Dr. Rob Silverman: Close that loop. And here’s the biggest problem. And again, we’re not going negative, but contrast does lead to persuasion. Many companies use a laser but they also use an LED. You add the LED to that complex. You just shut off the complexes. You have to understand to re-turn on that mitochondria, you have to go 1, 2, 3, 4—anything that shuts it off—you start from scratch. So it’s not like you run halfway, you take a break, and then you finish the other half. No, you go back to the starting line. And that’s the thing that people don’t realize. And again, what Kirk said was great, in that the mitochondria, they’re free-floating. The body is all interconnected. Chiropractors, we all know that it’s a communication, whether it’s the fascia nervous system and the blood system. That’s why they call it the circulatory system. That’s why they call it the central nervous system.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s great. So for those who are listening, I know we’ll put a link to the study. But let’s just talk about where it got published, where they can take a look at that.

 

Dr. Kirk Gair: If they go into PubMed, they go into a new PubMed website, and they can look under Rob’s name under my name. It’s going to pop up on there talking about the impact of high-energy wavelengths, and it’s in Hindawi was the journal that was published. Correct, Rob? So yeah, and so they can get it there. But like I said, if you just do the PubMed search, Dr. Rob’s got a couple of things that are on there. It’ll pop up there.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. That’s great. Amazing. Well, gentlemen, we sure appreciate you guys taking time out of your busy schedules to be here with us. We appreciate all the incredible work that you guys have done and are continuing to do. We know that this is not only impacting your patients but other practitioners’ patients all across the country and all throughout the world. And so we can’t say enough good things about everything you guys are doing. Andrew, any final thoughts?

 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Last thing if you’re a red laser owner, hopefully, this episode was a really compelling reason to look into getting the other wavelengths in green and violet. I think that it was. I was there when Erchonia launched this at their meeting. And I was like, there was kind of like, you know, how’s this going to be perceived? And there’s this initial run of laser. I think they sold out pretty quickly. Yeah, just based on the research that you guys did, I know they’re very appreciative of the hard work and effort that you guys put into this. And it just—it makes sense, guys. So if you’re a red laser owner, really consider looking into getting a GVL to have a really well-rounded approach to your laser therapy and practice.

 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, I would second that. And I would say the GDL has become absolutely indispensable. In my practice, I use my patients. As of recent, I’ve seen a couple of really, really acute patients over the past two weeks who have responded very, very quickly utilizing the GBA. And so it’s become that’s the word I would just say—it’s an indispensable part of our arsenal to help patients just get better results. Absolutely incredible. So I would second, third, fourth, whatever you want to say to what Dr. Gair, Dr. Silverman, and Dr. Wells have been saying here. So I hope that this has been valuable for everybody here to kind of shed a little bit of light, pun intended. All on the GVL and just what a powerful tool this is that Erchonia has developed. We appreciate the folks at Erchonia. They’re absolutely amazing, and their dedication to giving practitioners and patients better tools to help solve big problems. And so props to you guys, in that whole process of the journey. We appreciate it. Super exciting. Congratulations are obviously in order for this study. This is huge. And no doubt the first of many more to come for sure. So thanks again, guys, for being on with us. And thanks for listening, everybody. We’ll talk to you all on the next episode. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources, including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as Erchonia’s ecommunity, where you can access for free additional resources, including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening, and we will catch you on the next episode.

 

About The Guest(s):

 

Dr. Kirk Gair and Dr. Rob Silverman are special guests and recent published research authors for a brand new study on the GVL laser.

Dr. Kirk Gair has been using Erchonia lasers since 2004 and has seen mind-blowing results with the GVL laser.

Dr. Rob Silverman is a chiropractor and author of the book “Immune Reboot.” He has extensive knowledge and experience in laser therapy.

Summary:

Dr. Kirk Gair and Dr. Rob Silverman discuss their recently published study on the GVL laser. The study showed remarkable results in improving range of motion and reducing pain in patients. The GVL laser utilizes green and violet wavelengths, which have unique reactions in the body. The green wavelength has shown superiority in nerve repair, bone repair, and stem cell production. The violet wavelength has antimicrobial effects and supports the immune system. The combination of these wavelengths in the GVL laser provides a comprehensive tool for addressing a wide range of health issues, including autoimmune conditions, neurodegenerative diseases, and mitochondrial dysfunction.

 

Key Takeaways:

 

The GVL laser utilizes green and violet wavelengths, which have specific energies that trigger different reactions in the body.

The green wavelength is effective in nerve repair, bone repair, and stem cell production.

The violet wavelength has antimicrobial effects and supports the immune system.

The GVL laser provides a comprehensive tool for addressing a wide range of health issues, including autoimmune conditions, neurodegenerative diseases, and mitochondrial dysfunction.

 

Quotes:

 

“The GVL for Kirk and I is without question the standard bearer.” – Dr. Rob Silverman

“The GVL is the true dynamic duo.” – Dr. Rob Silverman

“The GVL is the prom queen versus the witch.” – Dr. Rob Silverman

To learn more or read the study you can check it out here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37829623/

 

To learn more about the GVL you can learn more here: https://www.erchoniagvl.com/

Erchonia Joins the Taking the Pulse, A Health Care and Life Sciences Podcast

Coming to you from SCBIO’s 2023 annual conference, Matthew and Heather welcome Steve and John Shanks of Erchonia, a world-leading company in the field of lower-level laser technology. They discuss the exciting news of their company’s relocation to South Carolina and share insights about Erchonia’s innovative work – tune in now!

Transcript

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Hey everyone welcome to Taking The Pulse, A Healthcare and Life Sciences video podcast. I am Heather Hoopes-Matthews coming to you from SC BIOS 2023 Annual Conference in Charleston, South Carolina. This is really one of the southeast, Premier Life Sciences events pulling together some of the leading innovators in the industry. Matthew we’re excited today to welcome to soon to be South Carolina residents Steve and John Shanks with Erchonia. Today on the stage this morning you announced your company is coming to South Carolina, you’re a global leader with low level laser technology. Steve, start us off. Tell us a little bit about your company and its mission.

 

Steven Shanks: Erchonia, our tagline is the world leader in low level laser therapy. So we try to prove that through research and development. So we build our own products, and we do our own clinical trials, obviously working with physicians, and from there we go to the FDA to try to get marketing licenses. And up to this point, we’ve probably got about 21 different indications to the FDA. Wow. That’s impressive.

 

Matthew Roberts: So you guys have been located in Florida and you made the decision thankfully to move to South Carolina and Greenville tell us a little bit about what went into that decision. How did you pick South Carolina?

 

John Shanks: You know, we’re really fortunate, we can pretty much go anywhere, we don’t need a particular storefront we sell nationally and internationally. So really, with our first approach was what was going to work best for the quality of life for our family. And after, you know, looking around, and a number of places in the country, um, it came down to a couple of cities. And you know, when we finally all sat down and said, Alright, let’s dial in on one and we got everybody out to Greenville, it became a really easy choice. I mean, there were just there’s a number of factors, that it made it clear that Greenville was just going to work really well for us, as a family and as a business. So that’s what we did. And that’s how we’re here. And then it took about two months for us to find property and start to go okay, let’s, let’s start building and get things done. Make it real. So then we started moving quick.

 

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Yeah. And you said that, before we started, you mentioned you poured a slab already.

 

John Shanks: We did we did you know what’s amazing with because they had all that rain over the last couple of weeks. They actually had to get those guys out there like 2am, about three weeks ago, to get the slab poured. I mean, they had the foundations of footings and poured for a little while but not yeah, now that that piece is underway, everything should start moving pretty quickly.

 

Matthew Roberts: So tell us a little bit about what you need in terms of have this laser technology? What kind of facility do you need? Is it need a lot of space? Or is there anything special that you have to put in place?

 

John Shanks: You know, for us, because we actually have a full machine shop and everything because we make everything internally I mean, you know, we take raw metal and turn them into all of the components. So for us the biggest factor out there will be the things that relate to things electrical, because we have to run some pretty large machines out there. Um, so for us, that’s about the only thing that is particularly noteworthy about it. Right, the rest of it, we like it to be DNO kind of artsy and cool just because we get to work there every day. So we spent a little money on the architecture and everything else, it should be a really neat looking building by the time we’re done. But, um, yeah, we’re about to about 20% bigger than the facility that we just expanded in Florida. And we’re, you know, we’re, we’ve purchased enough land that we can purchase, we can do about another, another 40% On top of that total square footage. So you know, we’re saving that for future growth. So we’re trying to be a little forward looking that way. It’s good to hear.

 

Steven Shanks: A little bit different than everybody else. Were with us since we are a family business. We’re looking to bring we keep everything in house. So we’re not looking to farm stuff off and have it manufactured somewhere else. Right. So we’re employed.

 

Matthew Roberts: So everything is built there and shipped from there to the customer?

 

John Shanks: Yeah, we literally ship internationally from the from the from that single location. Yeah, great. Great.

 

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: What kind of role if any, did SC bio play in your decision?

 

John Shanks: You know, for us? Obviously, having a, you know, a bit of a robust life sciences industry is always is noteworthy. Because when people say oh, hey, you’re there, people kind of consider from our standpoint. Truly, though, for us, what it finally got us here was it was just the whole environment, the city itself. So I mean, we count that as an added bonus, I guess, for lack of a better expression. Right. I mean, I think that’s kind of our take on it. Yes.

 

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Well, it’s good to have you add to the volume that’s been increasing here in the state because the life sciences industry has been increasing at this pace above everybody, right.

 

Matthew Roberts: And just another example of of the life science industry, benefiting from the state. It’s everything about it, plus its pro business stance. Just another example of why South Carolina is leading the nation.

 

John Shanks: You know, that is one thing we did find out the state itself actually has worked very favorably with us. One of the other cities we’re looking at, which will remain nameless for the moment but it was in North Carolina. Yeah, we found working with with those people was much more clear. On a friendly eye, we got sensitive South Carolina wanted us here. Great me as much as we wanted to be here. So we do I think that was Yeah, well, yeah, that was that was very much.

 

Matthew Roberts: Well, the people at Department of Commerce will be glad to hear that.

 

Steven Shanks: Yeah, they did a good job.

 

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Well, speaking of jobs, tell us about the jobs. Well, all of your jobs moved from, from Florida here.

 

Steven Shanks: Luckily, because we are a family business, a lot of our people will come, most of them would have.

 

John Shanks: You know, we had 53, down there 51 of which are coming up. Oh, wow. The longevity of our employees. I mean, you know, we we have sales reps that have been with us for 1618 years, right. So, but yeah, 51 jobs will be coming up, I think we have an average salary, that’s a little over $90,000. So we expect from further growth, probably within the next couple of years, we’ll probably have to hire eight or 10 more people in, in relative fashion. And then we’re introducing a number of new products over the next couple of years. So we have to really feel like that’s why we’re holding that other percentage of land to we got to see how that how that builds out for.

 

Matthew Roberts: And how do you do research and development for future products?

 

Steven Shanks: So for instance, we just had a conference call Monday with the FDA. So we’re looking do a clinical trial on autism. So we’ve done a pilot study. So we submit our protocol to the FDA, the FDA said, Okay, this is what you need. So after this, we’ll finish writing up the protocol, send it off to an IRB, line up our researchers start a research. And then if the data is good, we submit it back to the FDA, we get a 510 K, which is a marketing license from the FDA, and then we’ll market the product.

 

Matthew Roberts: So you mostly use CROs to do your research, or how do you how do you do the clinical research?

 

Steven Shanks: Most of the research we wanted out of our business. But for instance, one of the gentlemen that we’re using is a neurologist up in Boston. So another is a research institute in Phoenix. So but we do research, we go to University of Illinois, Chicago, we’re doing some stuff at Mayo Clinic. So we do research pretty much all over the world. But we try to keep most of it focused in the US.

 

Matthew Roberts: And one of the things that’s interesting about South Carolina is we’ve got these great research, facilities, universities, you know, University of South Carolina, Clemson. Clemson would be essentially right in your backyard.

 

Steven Shanks: So we met the lady from Clemson. So yeah, that’s good.

 

Matthew Roberts: Because that’s that’s what this is all about making those connections.

 

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: John and Steve, welcome to South Carolina.

 

John Shanks: Thank you very much. Yeah, we’re really looking forward to get into the process finished up and getting the move on. Yeah.

 

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: We look forward to hearing about your groundbreaking in the fall. And, you know, your vision for the future.

 

Matthew Roberts: We want you guys to come back after you, you know, get built out so you can show us some pictures? Yes.

 

John Shanks: Um, at some point, I’m guessing probably right around November, we’ll have a full on open house. And we were planning on inviting as many people as want to come see it, I think in the building. I think it’ll be impressive. I think I’ll leave it at that.

 

Heather Hoopes-Matthews: It will be your family owned and you’ve got control. Well, it’s exciting to hear your good news. And it’s a blessing for our state. For those of you who joined us today, we hope you learned a little bit about new companies coming to South Carolina and what the Shanks family does, and we look forward to seeing you next time right here on Taking The Pulse Healthcare and Life Sciences Podcast.