Coming to you from SCBIO’s 2023 annual conference, Matthew and Heather welcome Steve and John Shanks of Erchonia, a world-leading company in the field of lower-level laser technology. They discuss the exciting news of their company’s relocation to South Carolina and share insights about Erchonia’s innovative work – tune in now!
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Hey everyone welcome to Taking The Pulse, A Healthcare and Life Sciences video podcast. I am Heather Hoopes-Matthews coming to you from SC BIOS 2023 Annual Conference in Charleston, South Carolina. This is really one of the southeast, Premier Life Sciences events pulling together some of the leading innovators in the industry. Matthew we’re excited today to welcome to soon to be South Carolina residents Steve and John Shanks with Erchonia. Today on the stage this morning you announced your company is coming to South Carolina, you’re a global leader with low level laser technology. Steve, start us off. Tell us a little bit about your company and its mission.
Steven Shanks: Erchonia, our tagline is the world leader in low level laser therapy. So we try to prove that through research and development. So we build our own products, and we do our own clinical trials, obviously working with physicians, and from there we go to the FDA to try to get marketing licenses. And up to this point, we’ve probably got about 21 different indications to the FDA. Wow. That’s impressive.
Matthew Roberts: So you guys have been located in Florida and you made the decision thankfully to move to South Carolina and Greenville tell us a little bit about what went into that decision. How did you pick South Carolina?
John Shanks: You know, we’re really fortunate, we can pretty much go anywhere, we don’t need a particular storefront we sell nationally and internationally. So really, with our first approach was what was going to work best for the quality of life for our family. And after, you know, looking around, and a number of places in the country, um, it came down to a couple of cities. And you know, when we finally all sat down and said, Alright, let’s dial in on one and we got everybody out to Greenville, it became a really easy choice. I mean, there were just there’s a number of factors, that it made it clear that Greenville was just going to work really well for us, as a family and as a business. So that’s what we did. And that’s how we’re here. And then it took about two months for us to find property and start to go okay, let’s, let’s start building and get things done. Make it real. So then we started moving quick.
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Yeah. And you said that, before we started, you mentioned you poured a slab already.
John Shanks: We did we did you know what’s amazing with because they had all that rain over the last couple of weeks. They actually had to get those guys out there like 2am, about three weeks ago, to get the slab poured. I mean, they had the foundations of footings and poured for a little while but not yeah, now that that piece is underway, everything should start moving pretty quickly.
Matthew Roberts: So tell us a little bit about what you need in terms of have this laser technology? What kind of facility do you need? Is it need a lot of space? Or is there anything special that you have to put in place?
John Shanks: You know, for us, because we actually have a full machine shop and everything because we make everything internally I mean, you know, we take raw metal and turn them into all of the components. So for us the biggest factor out there will be the things that relate to things electrical, because we have to run some pretty large machines out there. Um, so for us, that’s about the only thing that is particularly noteworthy about it. Right, the rest of it, we like it to be DNO kind of artsy and cool just because we get to work there every day. So we spent a little money on the architecture and everything else, it should be a really neat looking building by the time we’re done. But, um, yeah, we’re about to about 20% bigger than the facility that we just expanded in Florida. And we’re, you know, we’re, we’ve purchased enough land that we can purchase, we can do about another, another 40% On top of that total square footage. So you know, we’re saving that for future growth. So we’re trying to be a little forward looking that way. It’s good to hear.
Steven Shanks: A little bit different than everybody else. Were with us since we are a family business. We’re looking to bring we keep everything in house. So we’re not looking to farm stuff off and have it manufactured somewhere else. Right. So we’re employed.
Matthew Roberts: So everything is built there and shipped from there to the customer?
John Shanks: Yeah, we literally ship internationally from the from the from that single location. Yeah, great. Great.
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: What kind of role if any, did SC bio play in your decision?
John Shanks: You know, for us? Obviously, having a, you know, a bit of a robust life sciences industry is always is noteworthy. Because when people say oh, hey, you’re there, people kind of consider from our standpoint. Truly, though, for us, what it finally got us here was it was just the whole environment, the city itself. So I mean, we count that as an added bonus, I guess, for lack of a better expression. Right. I mean, I think that’s kind of our take on it. Yes.
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Well, it’s good to have you add to the volume that’s been increasing here in the state because the life sciences industry has been increasing at this pace above everybody, right.
Matthew Roberts: And just another example of of the life science industry, benefiting from the state. It’s everything about it, plus its pro business stance. Just another example of why South Carolina is leading the nation.
John Shanks: You know, that is one thing we did find out the state itself actually has worked very favorably with us. One of the other cities we’re looking at, which will remain nameless for the moment but it was in North Carolina. Yeah, we found working with with those people was much more clear. On a friendly eye, we got sensitive South Carolina wanted us here. Great me as much as we wanted to be here. So we do I think that was Yeah, well, yeah, that was that was very much.
Matthew Roberts: Well, the people at Department of Commerce will be glad to hear that.
Steven Shanks: Yeah, they did a good job.
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: Well, speaking of jobs, tell us about the jobs. Well, all of your jobs moved from, from Florida here.
Steven Shanks: Luckily, because we are a family business, a lot of our people will come, most of them would have.
John Shanks: You know, we had 53, down there 51 of which are coming up. Oh, wow. The longevity of our employees. I mean, you know, we we have sales reps that have been with us for 1618 years, right. So, but yeah, 51 jobs will be coming up, I think we have an average salary, that’s a little over $90,000. So we expect from further growth, probably within the next couple of years, we’ll probably have to hire eight or 10 more people in, in relative fashion. And then we’re introducing a number of new products over the next couple of years. So we have to really feel like that’s why we’re holding that other percentage of land to we got to see how that how that builds out for.
Matthew Roberts: And how do you do research and development for future products?
Steven Shanks: So for instance, we just had a conference call Monday with the FDA. So we’re looking do a clinical trial on autism. So we’ve done a pilot study. So we submit our protocol to the FDA, the FDA said, Okay, this is what you need. So after this, we’ll finish writing up the protocol, send it off to an IRB, line up our researchers start a research. And then if the data is good, we submit it back to the FDA, we get a 510 K, which is a marketing license from the FDA, and then we’ll market the product.
Matthew Roberts: So you mostly use CROs to do your research, or how do you how do you do the clinical research?
Steven Shanks: Most of the research we wanted out of our business. But for instance, one of the gentlemen that we’re using is a neurologist up in Boston. So another is a research institute in Phoenix. So but we do research, we go to University of Illinois, Chicago, we’re doing some stuff at Mayo Clinic. So we do research pretty much all over the world. But we try to keep most of it focused in the US.
Matthew Roberts: And one of the things that’s interesting about South Carolina is we’ve got these great research, facilities, universities, you know, University of South Carolina, Clemson. Clemson would be essentially right in your backyard.
Steven Shanks: So we met the lady from Clemson. So yeah, that’s good.
Matthew Roberts: Because that’s that’s what this is all about making those connections.
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: John and Steve, welcome to South Carolina.
John Shanks: Thank you very much. Yeah, we’re really looking forward to get into the process finished up and getting the move on. Yeah.
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: We look forward to hearing about your groundbreaking in the fall. And, you know, your vision for the future.
Matthew Roberts: We want you guys to come back after you, you know, get built out so you can show us some pictures? Yes.
John Shanks: Um, at some point, I’m guessing probably right around November, we’ll have a full on open house. And we were planning on inviting as many people as want to come see it, I think in the building. I think it’ll be impressive. I think I’ll leave it at that.
Heather Hoopes-Matthews: It will be your family owned and you’ve got control. Well, it’s exciting to hear your good news. And it’s a blessing for our state. For those of you who joined us today, we hope you learned a little bit about new companies coming to South Carolina and what the Shanks family does, and we look forward to seeing you next time right here on Taking The Pulse Healthcare and Life Sciences Podcast.
Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, what’s going on everybody? Dr. Chad Woolner here with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and on today’s episode of the laser light show we have with us, Dr. Rachel Starr, a veterinarian, we are so excited to be able to chat with her. So let’s get to it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show.
Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, welcome to the show, everyone. And a special welcome to Dr. Rachel Starr. Rachel, good to have you here with us.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Thanks for having me.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. So, at this point in the podcast’s history, I have to say we’re probably on the fourth or fifth veterinarian that we’ve interviewed. Is that right, Andrew? Sounds about right. Yeah. Which is exciting because I want to see the shift, you know, to where we start hearing a lot more from the veterinarian world? Because it sure seems or feels like the world of low-level laser therapy is really starting to grow within the veterinarian world just as much, or at least at an even greater speed of implementation as it has in the human counterpart world. Is that what you’re seeing, Dr. Starr?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Yeah, well, we’ve had lasers; I’ve had a laser for 12 years. I’ve been using them for quite some time. And it does work on anything with mitochondria. So that pretty much encompasses everything that I work on. Oh, for sure.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, absolutely. Um, where do you practice?
Dr. Rachel Starr: I live in Traverse City, Michigan, and I work out of two clinics. And I am the holistic veterinarian for each of those clinics. So I specialize in non-pharmaceutical treatments or non-invasive treatments.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Do you see a similar dynamic in your realm of what we’ll just again, and it may not be this distinct and separate in the kind of human counterpart world? There is still, I think, very much to this distinction and separation between what people would designate as kind of traditional medical, and then this massive bucket of like, alternative, complementary integrative all these different synonyms, holistic things like that. Do you see a similar dynamic in the veterinarian world as well?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Absolutely. Although lasers are the one thing that has become well accepted in the general community, unlike in human medicine. Most, a lot of, I won’t say most, a lot of conventional veterinary clinics at this point have laser therapy. But there’s a lot of misinformation in the veterinary community because we don’t have FDA regulation. And so there’s a lot of class three B and class four laser therapy done. Because we don’t have to have FDA clearances to make claims.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay. Wow, that’s interesting. For those who are listening versus those who are watching this. Dr. Starr does have a guest. I don’t know if you can hear a little bit of wiggle there. But you have a guest with us. Who’s the guest?
Dr. Rachel Starr: I do. This is my five-year-old Datsun puck. And he, um, if my lap is available, that’s where he’s going to.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I think Dachshunds are absolutely adorable. Our friend here in town has this Dachshund that is just the sweetest, cutest dog. They are just so darn adorable. So yes. They’re vocal though. Are they? They do a lot of singing for you?
Dr. Rachel Starr: He barks. Yeah, yeah. So I’m sorry if you hear him? No, no, that’s great. Sleeping on my lap. He won’t contribute.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, that’s awesome. Fantastic.
Dr. Andrew Wells: What is it in your practices? What types of patients are you seeing?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, I do the majority; 80% of the training that I do is with nutrition. So I see a lot of patients where we are working on whole food diets. And we’re trying to do fresh food diets instead of kibble, which is really processed food. If you think about it, and I have a lot of owners on the human side of things who wouldn’t eat processed foods for themselves, but they’ll feed their dog kibble, which is kind of the ultimate in processed food and isn’t macronutrient really balanced to what we know we should do for dogs and cats. For carnivores, I should say that many carbohydrates, carnivores, and then I treat specifically with nutritional supplements, and I adjust, and I do laser therapy. So when I look at what is this problem, and what am I trying to address in this animal, I oftentimes use the analogy for people of building a house. So if we’re trying to rebuild this structure in your animal, we would need both the raw materials to do that, right? That would be nutrition. And sometimes we need the workers as well. And that would be laser therapy. And so every time we laser, we’re going to go from maybe two workers to four workers to six workers. And so we’re going to get that done faster; we need to put in the right components. And then we need to give the animal the ability to use those components with the laser.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s a great analysis.
Dr. Andrew Wells: I always thought for pet owners, we think of pets as our family, yet we feed them stuff, like you mentioned that we would never feed ourselves. And if you look at like, I remember I went to school, I remember to school close to a Purina factory. And it was like, the odor that came out of this place was horrible. And it was, you know, mainly corn, you know, GMO corn and all this stuff. And, and I’m like, Man, that’s, you know, that’s pretty awful stuff. When you look at the food that’s sitting on like your grocery store shelf, and these huge bags, like most people, I think, would know that that’s not the right thing to be putting in their families.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Right. Except for we’ve been telling people for about 40 years that that’s the right thing to put into their pet. Yeah. And so a lot of people, it’s just a lack of knowledge, right as we gain more knowledge. Just like in processed foods, we killed a lot of people in the 80s with margarine because that was the recommendation that was made. And I think that would be a very similar view to what we see right now, as far as I have many people who come in and say, Oh, my dog never gets any people food. And I say, since when do people corner the market on fresh foods, right? That’s an end. And they kind of because they’re doing healthy things for themselves. They have this like epiphany, where they’re like, Oh, my God, you’re right, you know. And then we can have a conversation about what we can do to make their pet healthier.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Years ago, maybe 15 years ago, I bought, I saw an article on Dr. Mercola. His website, it was promoted by a veterinarian. Her name was Dr. Becker, if I remember right, but I bought her book, and the whole book was like how to make how to make your own pet food. Rob, and I bought it and actually started the process and I, you know, full honesty, like I started I’m like, This is really hard. And we’re, we’re at a stage in our life where I’m like, I just need to worry about, like my wife and I eating healthy. And that was like our primary focus. And so we kind of retreated back to well, we won’t do kibble, but we will like we just, we found like, we actually were very close to a great pet food store that had done for you like raw foods and done for you healthy foods that were not, you know, not your traditional appearing like food and our Yeah, are our cats. They never, they didn’t really have any, like chronic diseases or tumors growing their body that I’ve seen with my friends, pets, like all kinds of weird growth that’s there on these four animals. Like I’m sure you’ve seen tons of it, like do you see like tumors and like all kinds of joint issues in arthritis and lack of energy and like, that’s directly related to the crap food that we give our pets.
Dr. Rachel Starr: All the things that stem from inflammation in the gut? Yeah, absolutely. imbalanced microbiome.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, everything you’re talking about. I can’t help but see the very direct and clear correlation in the human realm. You know, in the human world, everything we’re talking about shouldn’t surprise us, and yet for some reason, I’m like, oh, yeah, you know, like connecting these dots back to biology is biology, whether it’s a human or a dog or a cat. And I understand that specifically, there are certain different mechanisms and anatomical differences, da, obviously.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Right? But you already have chronic disease in dogs is the same as chronic disease in people right down to back pain. Yeah, yeah. And probably the number one thing I use a laser for is back pain in the clinic.
Dr. Chad Woolner: And that’s got to be so cool to see. Right? Because my guess is similar, again, similar to humans, you probably see pets kind of dragging in or being carried in, you know, then being able to maybe describe that for those who are watching or listening. What does a typical scenario look like in terms of that back pain? Yeah, just uh, yeah, so pet owner, what does that what does a classic case look like, you know, the pet owner, you know, drags the animal and carries the animal in, the animal can hardly walk or whatever. And then how many sessions all that fun stuff?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, it depends on the degree of back pain, just like in people. There are people who just barely move or, you know, that can’t get out of bed. Well, who just live with their back pain on a daily basis, right. So it can look like anything from the pet all of a sudden stops eating. And because they’re painful, they won’t eat, they can’t, or they can’t put their head down, or they can’t, you know, to get into a bowl. They usually come in hunched, like they’re guarded, their back is hunched up, you know, when you go down their back, they flinch. Or sometimes they’ll even cry, or if you move their neck, that sometimes it’s not, just like people could be cervical, could be thoracic, could be lumbar, actually lumbo sacral pain is really, really common. And, or to the extent where you have a herniated disc, and that’s impinging on the spinal cord, it could be nonambulatory. In the hind end, they could be dragging behind and not be able to move it. And that’s actually, if they don’t have deep pain, that’s a surgical procedure in order to get that because you’ve lost the entire spinal cord. And you have to do it quickly. So there’s all varying degrees of and most of them are dogs standing conch doesn’t want to move much, not eating. And then, you know, I see I see really varying degrees of response, or how many lasers does it take? That varies from animal to animal? I think, again, it comes down to what are their reserves, and what is their ability to respond? And I people always ask me how frequently we should do it too. And my other analogy is, so if we’re going to climb a ladder, I don’t know exactly how many rungs on the ladder. But if we’re gonna climb a ladder, the more frequently you laser, you’re gonna go up a rung every time that we laser the animal. And so the question is, how fast do you want to climb the laser? Or the ladder? Right?
Dr. Chad Woolner: the laser ladder.
Dr. Rachel Starr: The laser ladder. Exactly. So, when we, I generally start those dogs, we have packages of lasers in the clinic and I usually started with a package of six. And part of that is going to depend on how often an owner can get a dog into the clinic right? Unfortunately, we don’t have a rental program, I would love to have a rental laser. But we don’t yet in our clinic I’m working on that. So they, they work and they, you know, people work, some people can get, some people are retired and that’s, you know, their baby, they can bring it in and we can do two days even. So, that depends on the owner and what the owner is able to do, but I generally start with six and then I reassess. Are we continuing to get benefit? Is the dog doing really well? You know, do I think it needs more?
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s fantastic.
Dr. Andrew Wells: What types of, so what specific lasers are you guys using in your clinics?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Um, so I have, um, I have a base station with two red and a violet, Violet red. And I personally at home have the first laser we bought. I bought from the clinic when we bought a base station for the clinic. So I have a PL 5000, which is an old red light, 635 nanometer and at home I also have a GVL so I do sometimes bring my GVL to work and use it on animals.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s fantastic,
Dr. Rachel Starr: though I do have but in the clinic At each clinic, I have red and violet.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So you’ve been using the laser for 12 years, maybe tell us a little bit more about how you discovered how you came across lasers, what maybe your initial thoughts were in reaction was and some of the experiences that you had that really ultimately brought you into this world in the first place.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Um, so when I first started to learn about lasers, was when I was learning how to adjust dogs. And I took, I took Bill and men’s course in veterinary orthopedic manipulation. And then he talked about laser therapy. And I was open to that. I was open-minded to that; that’s part of being able to move on to different modalities is to be open-minded to them. So, so I started to do research on lasers, and I had some sales reps come in for class a class four, laser a class three, B, and I talked to the people that Erchonia. And I went, I did some research on how lasers worked, and how I could implement them in the different, you know, types of things that lasers could be used for. And it seemed like I wanted a red light laser. And with really low wattage was what my research led me to believe. And now, it was significantly less expensive for somebody who doesn’t own a clinic, I didn’t own the clinic, I had to go to my boss and ask him if I could, you know, to buy me a laser, here’s, you know, 1000s of dollars to spend on something that I’m going to use. And he said, you know, do your research on it. And as long as you’re using it and billing for it, I’ll buy it for you. So I said I promised to use it and bill for it. And I did, and I was getting really good responses. And so about two years into it, the we have we have a group of people that come to that clinic, we have some affluent people, we have some less affluent people. And when you’re talking about things like a cruise ship tear, like an ACL and people dogs have a cranial cruciate ligament, which tears just like people, and some people can’t afford that, at that time is about $1,500 to $2,000 to do that surgery, but I could laser them and get a nonleague dog in about three months, which is about the same period of time, not every dog, but many of them. So this was so expensive option for people who didn’t have the money to be able to pursue like, you know, the gold standard care. And, and I was having some good success with that type of thing. So two years later, I was at a laser conference. And I had told my boss that I really wanted the violet laser eye, because I just had read. And I was transporting this laser back and forth between the two clinics; he owned both of them. And so I was only billing on the days that I was there. But I was like, I can write a protocol. I can bill when I’m not even in the clinic. And he was like, okay, so um, I called him from the conference because of course, there was a conference special. And I said, if we buy a base station, you know, this is the special and he said, Well, what if we buy two? And I said, What do you mean by two? He said, Don’t you want the violet light in both clinics? And I said, Of course I do. And he said, Well, we’ll trade in the old one and and then I’ll buy you a base station for each clip. So clearly I was billing enough for it right that he saw the value here. And then I and then I, we came home, we got the base stations. But we had a technician at that time that was doing rehab in house post surgeries for animals that had orthopedic surgeries. And she was carrying the PL five with her which was transplant transportable, and she didn’t want to give it up. And so we ended up sending sending Erchonia a check for that one too. That’s awesome. And turn it in that we had three lasers. And then that original pl 5000 is now mine. At for my personal use at home for my animals and my children and my self and my husband.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing.
Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s, that’s, that’s amazing. Yeah, it’s nice. It’s a nice perk of the job to get those via the old half lasers that you can produce. Yeah. Yeah, you get to take them home. It’s nice. All right.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, and I bought I bought it from the clinic but because again, it’s not my clinic. But that laser has been used. I mean, that’s a 12 year old laser. I’m still using it on a regular basis. And you know, my kids play sports We have some injuries. And I’ve it works really well in people too. I’ve, I’ve had some kids are amazing if you if you laser them while they’re doing range of motion, you can see increased range of motion while you’re lasering them. Yeah,
Dr. Chad Woolner: absolutely. I’m curious to, to know what difference you saw when you added violet into the equation as well as just read write, because you had how many years of just utilizing read without the vital two years? So tell us maybe a little bit about what started to change what, what, what things you saw into the equation or to the mix once Viola was added in the equation? And green too for that matter now too
Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, yeah, I have under the green one for very long. So we’ve been on the market since I bought it in February. Okay. Okay. I was excited for that. I see, you know, I see very good outcomes. And sometimes all you need is red, but I rarely just use red, I use a violet laser on just about everything. I personally feel like the violet laser is so underutilized in veterinary medicine, this is where we need to get education out to people because, you know, in a day and age where we have infectious issues. So one of the things that I noticed with the violet is I within treating, you know, I can treat skin infections, I can treat and even I’ve had some very good responses with animals that are not responding to antibiotics and clearing up skin infections and autoimmune disease. It seems like adding that violet laser in there really makes a difference with skin autoimmune disease. So I’m Violet, we need to be using violet, you know, we are getting antibiotic resistance we have Mersa we have in we have in the veterinary world. Pseudomonas is our kind of Nemesis when it comes to infections. And this is a tool that we have, that there’s no risk for, and that we can maybe reduce our use of antibiotics. So from that sample, and you know, fungus, we can treat fungus, especially since kita. connoisseur, which is our major drug against fungal infections, can cause liver issues in pets. So I really think the violet laser is a huge benefit that we need to be educating people more on.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Do you see a similar pattern or kind of trajectory? If that’s the right word of antibiotic overuse in pets, similar to animals? Because that’s been for the past probably five to 10 years, for those who are listening, have a voice of major concern is this idea that like, the more that we over, prescribe and overuse those drugs unnecessarily, it’s creating a problem or kicking the can down the road further and further and further, when we should really be starting to address it now, because this is what’s driving a lot of the resistant strains of things. Are you seeing a similar pattern in the veterinary world?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Yeah, definitely. So I have been to and going to conferences in the, I’m seeing more and more continuing education programs and conference speakers and conferences and things like that, talking about what we can do instead of antibiotics to try to decrease antibiotic resistance. And, we aren’t coming up with new antibiotics; they’re not new antibiotics coming on the market. We need to find other ways to deal with infections. I mean, being healthier and eating better is also a part of that, a little earlier. But this is a tool that I don’t understand why we’re not used. It’s very well researched, and we know it has efficacy from everything from COVID. To, you know, ringworm and to Mersa. So why we’re not using that? It’s just, I think it’s just an education issue, which I’m trying now. I’m trying to educate more people on using the violet laser as another tool in the fight against antibiotic resistance.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Boy, it’s interesting. We interviewed Dr. Rob Silverman, who obviously isn’t a veterinarian, but he was talking about how in humans, and I can’t imagine it being any different than pets, of how the violet can really help increase anti-inflammatory cytokines to help with resolving chronic inflammation. And so it’s kind of cool because you have this kind of one-two combo punch between the red and the violet. The red will help knock down some of the pro-inflammatory mediators. And then on top of that, if you’ve got the violet, which obviously helps with inflammation from the anti-inflammatory side, but also from the pro-resolving side of things. I think it was interleukin 10 that he talked about that violet helps increase. I’m assuming similarly in pets, that’s the same sort of idea of what we’re seeing there, too.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Yes, yeah. You would, and we’re looking at trying to decrease inflammation, increase immune response, and then directly with the violet kill off, you know, some of those invasive organisms. Yeah. I don’t understand why we, you know, during the COVID epidemic, why didn’t we have a violet-red laser in every ER or ICU? It’s really a tool that is being underutilized and was even researched on that.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, yeah. There’s a lot of research. Right.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Right. And that, you know, that’s what people are dying from. Right, right. Yeah, ionization.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Cytokine storm, that was the big conversation. Yeah, everybody’s heard that term over and over and over again. You know, the thing that’s so cool about the violet is that, unlike ultraviolet, which there’s always the potential risk there of too much. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. The 405 nanometer wavelength is the sweet spot, so to speak, you know, that you’re getting all the benefits without any of the potential drawbacks or risks that can come about from ultraviolet. Right. And so, yeah, that’s huge. So very, very cool that you’re seeing that? Yes.
Dr. Rachel Starr: I do similar things in people, you know, again, we all have mitochondria.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Right? Yeah. No doubt.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Dr. Star, do you have any favorite kind of testimony stories or outcome stories with patients that come to mind over the last 12 years using lasers with patients?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Um, so, I mean, I integrate so many different modalities together lasers is one of is one of the many tools in my toolbox. Um, so I would say the most recently I had a dog who we were working with trying to, she, I think she had autoimmune disease. The owner didn’t have the finances for us to be able to do a biopsy to confirm that. But she had been on antibiotics for six weeks, and initially, she got a little bit better. And she had these big open sores on her all over her body. She was miserable. She was hunched up in her legs, her front legs were really painful, which again, is why I think she had autoimmune disease, like lupus or something like that. And she plateaued off and her improvement she did initially improve with antibiotic therapy over the first two weeks. When I saw her a couple of weeks later, she well at two weeks, she looked good. At four weeks, she looked like she was not much better than when I’d seen her at two weeks. And so I started lasering her with the red back well with red, multiple red and red violet. And, um, the next time she came in, she looks significantly better. So we lasered her again, and we were only lasering her every two weeks because she had two-week follow-ups, we had financial constraints. And all of her skin healed up after three or four laserings. So after, so she had, and I even took her off of antibiotics because I didn’t see any reason to continue killing off her microbiome if it wasn’t helping her any further. So the laser, they’re really turned around her skin condition and her, she just, she walked in, she wasn’t hunched, you know, or timeout painful dogs, whether hunched and they, you know, she didn’t want me to touch her joints and her front legs and that she started to stand up more upright. She was more interactive. She let me touch her more. She clearly felt a lot better. And the only thing there, and that particular one, the only thing that I had added was laser therapy for her. And I’ve had many, I’ve had many dogs they were it works very well. I had another, I had a dog where, in the very beginning, he was a show dog. And he was three years old. And he was at a show in Ohio. And he, he partially tore his cruciate ligament. And the owner called, and you probably don’t know this about show dogs, but once they have surgery, they can’t be shown anymore.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, really? Yeah.
Dr. Rachel Starr: So the owner lived in our area, was one of our clients. And he called and said that, you know, the dog tore a cruciate ligament. Was there any option other than surgery because he wanted him to be able to remain a show dog? And, and, and FYI, he was an Australian cattle dog. And he was a working dog. He worked cattle on the owner’s farm. So he was a working dog as well as the show dog. And he was being shown because he was put up for stud. So the owner was making money off of him as a stud. And I said, Well, you know, I just got this laser, and we can try that and see. And he was not lame within five lasering. And we did more because I wanted to make sure he healed well, we held him back. He didn’t work or do anything for about three months or so. And he never had surgery; he returned to being a show dog. And he continued to work cattle on that owner’s farm. And because this was a really long time ago, I happen to know the end of this story. He worked cattle till he was about 10 years old. And he was euthanized at about 13 and a half.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s great. What a neat story. Yeah, that’s incredible.
Dr. Rachel Starr: I had another one who was a dock jumper. And so he’s an athlete as well. And there’s a difference between lasering athletes right and or in working on athletes, we have a different expectation for the outcome than we do with a family pet who mostly lays on the couch. You know, he was a dock jumper, and he wasn’t performing as well, and the owner noticed some swelling in the carpus. And she had taken him to a chiropractor and had adjusted, she took him to a rehab that he’d been lasered with a class three B laser, she took him to another rehab that he was lasered with a class four laser. So she was seeing me for nutrition. And when she came into me, she told me that he’d been through all of this already. But she was still the current swelling in the carpus was still there. And I said, Well, let me try my laser on. And she said he’s been lasered already. I said, but that was my laser. Yeah. And we lasered him. And she called the next day and bought a package of lasers because the swelling went down, overnight.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s such an important story there; all the stories are fantastic. Thank you for sharing those. But I wanted to take a minute to drill down on that. We know that this podcast is sponsored by and brought to everybody by Erchonia. That’s like a no-brainer, right? But it really is true when we say that not all lasers are created equal. Patients need to hear that, practitioners do too, right? Thank goodness that you have no doubt the pet owner is probably so incredibly grateful that you still press that issue. Because it could have been very easy for you to be like, well, they’ve already tried laser. I don’t want to bother, you know what I mean? I don’t want to pressure them or bother them. And yet you have the, I don’t even want to say tenacity, right? The willingness to press that issue a little bit and say, you know, no, you haven’t tried these lasers, you know, and that would have been a very easy thing to just drop the subject. I don’t want to bother her. She’s probably already tried all the secrets. You know what I mean?
Dr. Rachel Starr: Yes. Well, I remember back when I did all the research on laser therapy. Yeah, it didn’t search. I didn’t do the research not to incorporate that into the way that I practice. Right. And so I think, I think it’s important to understand, like I said, in the veterinary community, we don’t have that regulation over class three B and class four to that they can make whatever claims that they want to, and the class four lasers have done a very good job of marketing so that people think class four means better, not more dangerous. Yes. And really, class four just means more dangerous. It doesn’t. It doesn’t mean anything else, right? And so, um, I think that that’s something that we need to correct. As far as information goes in the veterinary community is understanding what the laser classification system is. It’s a hazard system, that’s it wrong. And that it doesn’t have anything to do with efficacy and that more power is not always better. So I’ll tell you another analogy that I use. Yeah. And dosage in that is if you were going to take an antibiotic, right, no infection, and I said, take one twice a day for 10 days. It wouldn’t make any sense for you to take 10 twice a day for two days. Right.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Right.
Dr. Rachel Starr: So when we look at dosage, we need to apply dosage correctly.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Dosing matters.
Dr. Rachel Starr: Oh, so true. And lasers as it isn’t medications? Yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolute great, great point. We were talking to a practitioner who had spoken with a patient who had been to a clinic where the practitioner had set up a class four laser on a stand, so it didn’t move, and expected the patient to move. Which is just like, Insanity, which is just crazy to hear that. But man, that’s, that’s crazy. But though so true, what you share there in terms of dosing matters, efficacy matters, Research Matters, you know, and good on you for taking the time to do that to really research for the betterment of your patients, right? Because it does, it makes a huge difference. So
Dr. Rachel Starr: I think we so often we just want somebody to teach us how to use something and then integrate it instead of understanding how it works. And it’s so important to understand how things work in order to get the maximum benefit out of
Dr. Chad Woolner: it. Absolutely. Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. Dr. Starr, we certainly appreciate you taking time to be with us on this episode. This has been super awesome. We’ve kind of talked a little bit about a lot of different areas, a lot on violet laser in the vet community, which is super exciting, as it is in the human realm as well. Andrew, any final thoughts?
Dr. Andrew Wells: I just want to point out the fact that whether you’re working with humans or animals, a lot of the practitioners I’ve found that have adopted lasers into their practice, they don’t get rid of them, they tend to add more to them. And so Dr. Sar has been in practice for some time but using lasers for 12 years and I imagined Doctor sir, that’s laser therapy is probably not something you’re planning on getting rid of anytime soon, I imagined.
Dr. Rachel Starr: No. I, like I said, I would like to have some to rent out because for the people who can’t clinic regularly, we can get them out of pain faster, if we can send them home and they can do it at home.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. And to that into Andrea, I wanted to point out as well, you mentioned this doctor star, but I want to highlight it again, you’re still using to this day, the same laser you initially invested in 12 years ago, I don’t know I really truly don’t know if I can make that same kind of claim with other pieces of equipment, I’ve had pieces of equipment come and go. And so that’s a true testament to the caliber and quality of the products that Erchonia makes that you know that again, what can happen is either a the product wears down, breaks down, etc., etc., and or B, some technologies just over time become irrelevant. And yet here we are. The quote unquote old technology is still utilizing the same wavelength of light is still getting great results for you and your practice. That should tell practitioners who are who are considering whether they’re a vet or a human practitioner. When you invest in an Erchonia laser, you can rest assured 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 years from it’ll still be just as relevant in terms of that should be very comforting and reassuring and give them significant peace of mind.
Dr. Rachel Starr: So yes, my other two my two base stations that are in the two clinics are 10 years old. So and you know, I would love the new touchscreen technology is a software that’s changed, right? Yeah. Great to have the touchscreen technology. They’re smaller. They’re they’re, you know, they are different than but but why would you spend, you know, $30,000 to replace a piece of equipment that works just fine.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Right? You’re getting great results. That’s incredible. So, so good. So well again, thank you for being here with us Dr. Starr, we really do appreciate it. Thank you for sharing your experience and your wisdom and the incredible stories and We hope that those listening, whether they be veterinarians, whether they be other practitioners, whether they be patients. Hopefully, they’re learning about some of these powerful alternatives to help solve some of these problems that, quite frankly, far too few know about. And so this is just one kind of one other drop in the bucket in terms of helping to spread that message, which is still vital to get out to, to the world. And so we appreciate what you’re doing in your realm and in your sphere. And we hope again, those listening got value out of this, we would encourage you to share this with others. And we will talk to you all on the next episode. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show, be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as are Coleus e community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.
On today’s episode of the Laser Light Show we sit down with Dr. Rachel Starr. Dr. Starr graduated from Michigan State University in 2000 and has been a part of the Suttons Bay and Elk Rapids Animal Hospitals since September 2005. She enjoys relieving pain and discomfort of an animal and helping restore the family relationship with the pet. Dr. Starr is particularly interested in Veterinary Orthopedic Manipulation (VOM), laser therapy and nutrition. At home, she has an English Creme Retriever named Esca, and a horse named Mickey. Gardening, horseback riding, and volunteering at the school are activities Dr. Starr enjoys outside of work. She also likes to spend time with her husband Jay and three children, Abraham, Jonah and Ari.
Dr. Andrew Wells: All right, everybody. Welcome to the laser light show. We’re super excited. On today’s episode we have with us good friend, and special guest, Dr. Rob Silverman. So let’s get started.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show.
Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, welcome to the show, everybody. We are so excited. This is the second time we have had Dr. Rob Silverman on the show. Correct. Second, my friend, awesome. So we’re excited. Certainly not the last time we’ll have, hopefully not the last time we’ll have Dr. Silverman on with us. Today, we’re going to be talking about lasers and longevity. You know, I think this is such a timely and important topic because far too often, when we think of longevity, it’s too focused on just the quantity of life. But when we’re talking longevity, we’re not just talking quantity; we’re talking the quality of those years within that quantity. Right? It’s one thing to extend life and have like 10 years of pain and suffering extended life. But obviously, Dr. Rob Silverman is here to discuss how do we maximize the quality out of those years as well. Super excited. You are fresh off of the heels of lecturing down in Bogota, Colombia. So we’re excited to have you tell us, how was Colombia?
Dr. Rob Silverman: Bueno. Oh, no, Colombia was great. Bogota was fabulous. I was actually there center square during the earthquake, a lot of fun. Wow. Great people, great healthy food. Great Congress. You know, gentlemen, it’s amazing to watch the world come around the idea of healthcare and see the leaders and see how invigorating it is to see that the message that we’re on the trail that we’re on is one that’s helping people and making indelible marks on their lives. Whether it’s us, whether it’s Canada, I know you guys traveled and lectured internationally, whether it’s Bogota, in France, there is a segment of the population who is clamoring for this. So all those on this path, don’t give it up. This is the path that’s going to make a change in other people’s lives. And you know, isn’t that what we do it for? I mean, we were just talking about something right? Isn’t that what we do it for? I mean, it’s not for Mercedes or anything like that. It’s that handshake when you walk into the local restaurant, local church, or somebody says, thank you.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, how’s your book doing? Immune reboot, one of my favorites. It’s been out now for what, three, four months, or longer than that, hasn’t it been…
Dr. Rob Silverman: Longer. It’s been about eight months. You know, it’s doing great. Believe it or not, it had this U shape when it came out, and people had interest because immunity, and like in America, immunity went down. And now people are still searching how to keep their immune system strong. Because, you know, if it’s not for chiropractic, or what I like to refer to as medically adjacent practitioners, because I don’t believe we’re alternative. I don’t believe we’re complementary. I believe we’re medically adjacent. We run alongside with them. They can use some of us; we can use some of them. Yeah. So the idea of integrated, we’re not an alternative anything. People are looking for strong immune health, and they’re looking to be able to pick from the toolbox, and they don’t know where to go but you know, laser lifestyle. This is where it’s at. It’s what you, Andrew, and myself all report every day to our patient base.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So what are you seeing right now in terms of obviously, the timing of this episode is kind of interesting timing right because, like you said, that U shape is going to shift I think a little bit over the next few months here in terms of interest because of the fact that here we are, as we’re recording this, this is nearing the end of August 2023. There’s all sorts of rumblings right now, online socially about new variants of COVID that are coming out and what the government and world leaders are talking about bringing back masks, new vaccine updates and boosters and all that fun stuff. And yet again, we don’t seem to be, at least that I’m hearing. We don’t seem to be hearing a lot about proactive and or preventative strategies. And so maybe talk to that. And Dr. Silverman in terms of what you’re seeing, and what you’re, more importantly, doing to kind of help chime in voice of reason in this world.
Dr. Rob Silverman: Well, for me, you know, I know you want to talk about longevity, which is without question a topic of this year 2023. And you did a great job in the preview saying it’s lifespan versus healthspan. So for me, the key to longevity is turning on all the health switches. The master switch is having a robust immune system, the control switch lifestyle, but without question, the hidden control switch is using low-level laser that allows for electromagnetic transfer of energy. And the reason I say that is we’ve got a lot of lifestyle gurus. But other than the people that come on your show, there’s a small cadre of practitioners or laser superstars who really understand it. So the idea of switching or switching of aging, it’s turning on pathways, one pathway, and we’re not going to get too technical, the am PK pathway. It regulates the amount of energy; it’s a nutrient and energy sensor. It maintains energy homeostasis. You want to stimulate it, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Berberine, omega-three fatty acids, resveratrol, intermittent fasting, what a great lifestyle hack. We’ve talked about it, high-intense exercise, even caffeine. And let’s not forget those lights that you guys have in the background that are flashing the whole time I can see them. Low-level laser therapy can also turn on that health switch. You also have something called sirtuins; they protect the cell from damage, they repair them, reduce inflammation, they boost memory. They’re impaired mitochondrial health, they’re stimulated by NAD, green tea, turmeric, resveratrol, quercetin, again, exercise, intermittent fasting, extra virgin olive oil, coffee, and of course, low-level laser and low-level laser doesn’t deal with one individual switch; it turns on the whole body. One more switch that you want to actually decrease is the mTOR pathway. It’s a central processing unit that makes all the complex decisions relating to cellular growth. So it’s a signal for growth rather than survival. And you want to demand resveratrol, quercetin, zinc, melatonin, omega threes, ketogenic diet, vitamin D, intermittent fasting, coffee, curcumin, etc. So the takeaway is more sirtuins, more AMPK, less mTOR, lifestyle appeler supplements and add your low-level laser therapy by Erchonia.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So when practitioners and or patients alike are hearing all of this, right, it could come across as maybe like a little bit of a fire hose. Because there’s a lot there. I think the first takeaway that I that I hear when I’m hearing this, if one is going to adopt this, they have to recognize I think on some level that this is going to be a true lifestyle approach mindset and lifestyle approach. Because when I again, when I hear that you can hear one of two ways, either a laundry list of to-dos, or you start thinking strategically, okay, how do I take all of those things and synthesize it down into something manageable? So maybe talk about some manageable strategies of how you synthesize all of that. And what does that look like on a day-to-day basis, maybe?
Dr. Rob Silverman: I think that’s great. I think I, without question, gave them the data dump. I’m so excited about this. I’m like, here’s all the data. Yeah, I got this big meal, but I got no fork and knife. Let’s make it a little bit more digestible. There are, as Andrew Chad was saying, Rob from New York, could you land the plane please? I got it. I got the memo. So let’s talk about lifestyle, and let’s talk about limiting our carbohydrate content. Let’s avoid some ultra-processed foods. Let’s decrease the amount of added sugar. We can have fructose, but let’s not have a large amount of fructose because carbohydrates put us into what we call a survival mode or a fat depositing mode. So we want to limit our carbs if we did just that, we will be much better off in our health bandwidth. We want to look to eat good quality proteins, look to eat good quality fats; that should be the basis of our macronutrient ingestion. Let’s try and get some exercise. We all don’t have to pump like Arnold or Ronnie Coleman or somebody like that. But let’s get some good quality exercise. I had a patient coming today, and he says, You know, I don’t like to lift weights. And I’m like, Well, what do you mean? He’s like, Well, I don’t like barbells and dumbbells and everything like that. I said, Would you do a push up? Yeah, well, that’s a bodyweight. Would you use a TRX? Yeah. Would you do a pull up? Would you walk? He doesn’t like the gym? Would you walk outside? Like the beautiful picture that Dr. Wells has behind? Would you want to walk in that forest, or behind that window, would you want to be outside and just walk around that building? I unfortunately am encased in this, you know, ground floor place, but you know, welcome to New York, you want to move you want to walk, you want to get that exercise. And if you can do some high-intense interval training, if your body allows you, the data indicates even four minutes of exercise will actually improve your health status. So they call that a Tabata. Then when you look at the supplements, I did give you a litany of supplements. Here’s some easy stuff, multivitamin multi-mineral, omega-three fatty acid, vitamin D3 with two good pre and probiotics. If you start with that, that’s great. And try and get the laser into your lifestyle. I just had somebody come up from the Midwest; you get laser therapy every day two to three times a day. And the change in his energy level, his long COVID symptoms, his approach to life changed; he came in like a dim light, and now he’s bright and shiny. So I mean, I’m not saying that because it worked for them. Full disclosure, I’m saying because I use it on myself; I picked the laser up because I have congenital torticollis. So that’s evident; people can see that there’s an asymmetry of my neck, I did it because I needed to help myself, because my neck is now fused. And chiropractic adjustments were no longer available. And the results were great because I was more pain-free; range of motion came back. And then again, I started to utilize this laser device, which has FDA clearances on my friends, my family, my wife first always my wife because I figure if I don’t kill her, we can move on in life as well. We just heard me in the other room. But in any case, you know, and now it’s a staple for patients. And I found it to be quite effective in this longevity mode.
Dr. Chad Woolner: You know, something you said in a conversation we had I think a couple of weeks ago, Rob, that really resonated with me for whatever reason. And it’s just like, sometimes people say things at the right time. And it just it clicks. This was something you said you said something to the effect of muscle tissue is the tissue of youth or something, something to that effect. I don’t know if that’s exactly what you said. But that’s kind of what I heard. What stuck with me is for a lot of people when they hear about like resistance training and or just general exercise exactly what you said, like, I don’t want to be Arnold Schwarzenegger, I don’t want to be this, like, you know, you know, Hulk type person. But the reality of it is, is that muscle tissue and or muscle tone is is one of the key factors to a health span, you know, in terms of maintaining long term health, maybe speak to the specific of kind of that intersection of how muscle tissue plays a role with that exercise. But then on top of that, how lasers can enhance all of that and kind of connect some of those dots together a little bit. Fabulous.
Dr. Rob Silverman: Well, I believe that muscle mass is the currency of longevity that Dr. Gabrielle Lyon says muscle mass is the organ or the longevity organ. Or phrase it right. Yeah, great. And it’s one huge takeaway. So it’s not when we talk about muscle mass, we’re not just talking about muscle mass, we’re talking about having some muscle, some quality muscle. And if you think about in chiropractic, if we get back to that we’re structure and posture guys. I mean, good quality, muscle tone will enable us to have better structure, what’s my biggest problem? It’s not the nerves, it’s that my muscle tone in the area apart my SEM is shorten my scaling and shorten the other side is elongated, etc, etc, etc. So you know, as a chiropractor, we always talk about the central nervous system. But I think one of the interesting things that we add to the conversation is muscle, muscle tone imbalancing the muscle I don’t think we talked about that enough that alone, utilizing the laser where it can turn on and off muscles to have a proper tone. Is a fabric This ad. In addition, it was a 2016 study for performance, like muscle performance with elite sports athletes. And those who were lasered did considerably better than other elite athletes that weren’t so much so that at that particular games, they said they may ban laser unless it’s accessible to everybody, because it’s an unfair advantage, like taking a steroid or something like that. That’s hilarious. Yeah, and, you know, I think later before we, you know, get off, we definitely have to get into the idea of mitochondrial function, because if you think about mitochondrial function goes across a couple of different parameters. Number one, it does talk about longevity. Number two, it talks about health. And number three, it really talks about performance. And to be frank, looking at from among a functional medicine lens. mitochondrial dysfunction is one of the biggest issues we have. Because we, you know, when you look at what a mitochondria can do, mitochondria has immune system functions. It’s energy producing, and the number one mitochondrial organ in our body, our brain, and where are we without our brain? Now, I have been told that I’ve lived my whole life without a functioning brain. But I may be unique.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Don’t I, to your point I don’t really hear much about in respect to lasers, I don’t hear much about muscle tonicity. We talk about affecting obviously, mitochondrial function, we talk about a bunch of other functions, but with lasers and longevity, like, explain to us how like for someone who’s, that’s a new concept to them. And also, to some degree me, tell us how that works. You
Dr. Rob Silverman: have the tenacity and the talent. Well, it’s interesting in that by producing the ATP, you can get, take a step back home in the plan a little shorter, not a long runway for Jad make.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Talk to me, like I’m a fifth grader. Okay, Rob, let’s just say,
Dr. Rob Silverman: sorry, I went from eight to five. Oh, goodness, there’s so many applications in what we’re saying we’re definitely going to get taken off the air. low level laser allows for the efficient production of ATP. And by doing so it also decreases the amount of free radicals or reactive oxygen species produce. So this is a good thing. And in that alone, a decrease in reactive oxygen species is anti-aging Improving longevity and health span and as such, but also the ability to produce ATP allows you to contract the muscles. Now we have different wavelengths to the muscles. And here’s the we have different wavelengths to the laser. And that’s very interesting. We have three wavelengths that we utilize, we use a red, which is 635 nanometer visible light, we have a 520, approximately, which is green. All of these have different properties, we have a 405 wavelength. Now what’s interesting about that is the read stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system, the violet is sort of in the sorry, the green is sort of in the middle, and the violet stimulates the sympathetic nervous system. So when you add these together, there’s a balancing of systems. And that would be called the autonomic nervous system. And as chiropractors, we always talk about the nervous system, the muscular system. And sometimes we forget about the autonomic nervous system, this balance this homeostasis, that’s what we’re about, right? We’re all about homeostasis, getting the body imbalanced to optimizing it from the inside out. And laser helps you do that. And one of the beautiful ways it does is it stimulates the production of ATP in a mitochondria. In addition, a lot of studies have been done on laser to show that it affects the body from the inside out from a blood chemistry format, in that increases something called interleukin 10, which is a protein enzyme. It’s one of the anti-inflammatory cytokines that the body produces. But here’s the secret sauce to it. It conversely decreases interleukin one beta and interleukin six, interleukin eight TNF alpha data dump, those are a pro-inflammatory, so it actually flicks not only the switch of longevity, it turns off the switch of aging lasers been shown to increase interleukin 10. Now that said, just talk about lower back pain has shown most people that have lower back pain have an increase in interleukin six and interleukin eight and the feeling of musculoskeletal pain will lead you down and a decline in longevity. Because it’s not just healthspan and lifespan. It’s now going to vitality. Hey, I’m totally healthy. But you know what? I can’t walk that far. I’m totally healthy but I suffer from this that in the other thing, I don’t suffer from a disease, but my performance for my age or what I should be at my age is precipitously dropped. So I think we need to expand the idea of vitality and nobody does it better than you two guys to
Dr. Chad Woolner: thank you, Dr. Rob. Great. Great thoughts there. Boy, this is awesome. This is going to be a really fun episode for people listen to to fit two thoughts number one. Have you seen that new docket Docu drama on Netflix, painkiller? Yeah, oh, golly, it’s so for those who haven’t seen it. I’m sure by the time this is out, everybody’s seen it, you should see it because it’s very eye opening. It’s a it’s basically a docu drama about Purdue pharma and oxy cotton. And I can’t help but think I’m watching that with my wife in the evenings. And I’m like, I’ve got one of the Kony lasers literally sitting right next to me, by my bed stand on my on my bed stand. And I’m thinking the entire time as I’m watching this show, like golly, lasers could have solved. There’s this main character at the beginning, who’s dealing with debilitating back pain, and he starts, you know, down in a bunch of Oxycontin. And obviously, we know where that’s where that’s headed. But that was like the first point in all of this was just like, crazy to think about the fact that here we have these tools that can help. But in terms of also this idea of like, increasing healthspan. You have you read the book, body by science by Dr. Doug macguff. It’s great read, great read, when you started talking, it really reminded me of what he talked about in that book about defining health and fitness, right. Health being he defines it as the absence of disease, number one, and a balance of catabolic and anabolic states, or as you would call it, homeostasis. Right, you know, absence of disease and homeostasis. But the other fact of it, because people I think, sometimes use these terms interchangeably, and they should not be used interchangeably because there’s a difference between health and fitness. And he defines fitness as one’s resiliency or adaptability to stress. Right, so exactly what you said there, Rob, is you can have somebody who has a relatively high level of health or is considered healthy, but has very low fitness, right? They can’t walk for long periods of time, they can’t run, they can’t lift weight, things that are required, necessary stressors of life, you know, like you talk and I, as I’m saying this, I’m thinking about, you know, Greg Glassman, who was the founder of CrossFit, he was viewed as a fairly controversial figure, in that I read this interview that he had, somebody was like, So you mean to tell me that you’re gonna have some 80 year old woman doing deadlifts? And he’s like, yeah, absolutely. And they’re like, why would you do that? He’s like, Well, does she have to bend over to pick things up on a day to day basis? And they’re like, Well, yeah. And he’s like, so don’t you think it would be important to have sufficient muscle tone and strength and ability to be able to bend over and lift anything up off the ground? They’re like, yeah, they kind of make a good point there. So I just love what you shared there, Rob, because it’s, it’s really helping people see that longevity. It’s not just about health, but also about resiliency and fitness in this idea of capacity to to engage and do the things that people need to do on a on a day to day basis.
Dr. Rob Silverman: Yeah, I think we forget about vitality. And I look at that every day with my 94 year old mom, she certainly has longevity. She’s got a very long lifespan. Now, she hit the wall, and now she barely can talk. She can’t take care of herself. It’s 24/7 365 My dad is similar age does everything of course, his posture shot in with her she never optimized the vitality. So if I showed you a movie of her life, she would be the classic example of longevity. Not so great house fan, but not as bad as you think. But vitality because she didn’t watch what she an exercise. There was no moments in life. And you know, I look at her and I said, Hey, what do you suggest? And she said, you know, spend it now take care of yourself. Because, you know, now there’s, I can’t enjoy which I have a patient that’s 97 years old who drives in every day and he’s got a girlfriend Hey, good for him. And you know, travels. But I really want to hammer home something because actually two things will really want to hammer home. Could not thermal laser be an answer for longevity? Should it be the modality if we want to call it a modality? So let me give you some reasons why. Yeah, please. non invasive, no downtime. Um, no pain, typically a short treatment time, as pain relieving properties, decreases swelling, improves blood flow enhances energy production by optimizing mitochondrial function. It’s anti-inflammatory, its immune boosting properties are there. It promotes stem cell production, it decreases stress hormones, it’s neuro protective. Down regulates those stress responses in the brains. It Up regulates collagen production. And some lasers actually have a fat loss, cellulite reduction. And they’re able to address skin conditions. So for me as a modality, I believe low level laser is among devotee modality of the 21st century.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Absolutely. It’s hard to argue with that. When you’re looking at all the potential things, you can use modalities, strategies that you can use, whether it’s breathwork, meditation, yoga, exercise, nutrition, cold immersion therapy, heat therapy. There’s a lot of choices. Providers and patients alike have a difficult time understanding how to actually apply these things. To the average person or doctor, it’s like, “Yeah, that’s all great. That makes sense, Dr. Silverman, but I have all these other things to choose from.” What’s unique about laser therapy is that it does so much across such a wide spectrum of things in a very easy-to-use tool that you can’t get wrong. It’s amazing for a lot of different things, whether it’s longevity or other health-related concerns.
Dr. Chad Woolner: The other thing that I would add to that, too, that I think is so unique as well is how stackable lasers are. There’s just about nothing you couldn’t stack a laser into. You can’t say that with other modalities, right? When you’re hooked up to wires or when you’ve got some contraption that’s being strapped to you or utilized. Lasers are so non-invasive that literally, you could have somebody shining a laser on you while you’re doing just about anything, anywhere, anytime. You can’t say that or do that with other modalities. The versatility, not just in terms of conditions and applications but in terms of stackability, is what makes lasers equally so powerful and so useful.
Dr. Rob Silverman: I’m going to dock the plane for you on that. Stacking multiple lasers ensures that you get all the different wavelengths across the visible light spectrum. You can stimulate all the mitochondrial complexes because the key to mitochondria is there are four complexes that need to be stimulated. The violet light stimulates complex one and two, green stimulates three, red stimulates four. When you stack these lasers, you’re getting a full change in mitochondrial function. Combining different lasers, like the E VRL and the GVL, results in a synergistic effect, creating a powerful approach. Practitioners, press that power button and go for it. There are some special ideas, and that’s why you attend webinars by experts like Dr. Wellness, Dr. Silverman, Dr. Barry, Dr. Kirk, Dr. Dan Murphy, etc. Everyone has their own approach, but the basic premise is to press that power button and get started.
Dr. Chad Woolner: It never ceases to amaze me. The minute we started using lasers in our clinic, the resounding message was there’s only upside, literally no downside. What that does is open up this playground for practitioners to experiment, knowing that these tools are inherently safe. It opens up the world for practitioners to experiment, knowing that outcomes will be inherently safe and efficacious. Lasers provide this incredible opportunity to explore and enhance patient care with very low risk.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Laser therapy is the easiest lifestyle change. Once you have a laser, it’s super easy to integrate into your routine. For example, I laser my two wiggly six and eight-year-old boys simultaneously in the morning. I lay them down, point the laser, and get the front, back, and top of their brains. It’s that simple. Lifestyle changes like stress management, exercise, and good nutrition can be perceived as difficult by some people, but laser therapy is exceptionally easy for anyone. If I can use it on my excited boys in the morning, you can use it in your home or clinic.
Dr. Rob Silverman: Laser therapy is not only versatile but also safe and easy to use. Patients can incorporate laser therapy into their daily activities, whether they’re meditating, listening to calming apps, or simply relaxing. The benefits are vast, ranging from improved mitochondrial function to reducing stress hormones, promoting stem cell production, and even benefiting hair health. It’s a powerful tool that complements a healthy lifestyle and contributes to longevity.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Exactly. Laser therapy is a multipurpose tool with sufficient specificity for a wide range of conditions. It offers practitioners and patients an easy-to-use, safe, and effective modality for improving health, fitness, and overall well-being. The stackability of lasers makes them incredibly versatile, allowing them to be combined with various modalities for enhanced therapeutic effects. As we explore the potential of laser therapy, it continues to amaze us with its diverse applications and positive impact on longevity and quality of life.
Dr. Andrew Wells: I love it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Well, Dr. Silverman, it has been an absolute pleasure getting the chance to chat with you. This has been a great episode. I think practitioners and patients alike will really appreciate the value that you’ve shared with us. So we really appreciate it. Always great connecting with you, my friend. And looking forward for sure to the next time we get to chat. Andrew, any final thoughts on your end?
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, I just want to reiterate that lasers are like sex when done correctly. It’s amazing. Even when done incorrectly, it’s still pretty darn good.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, absolutely. I’ll leave everyone with that. There.
Dr. Rob Silverman: And I got fourteen lasers. So life is good.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Love it, man. Love it. Awesome. We’ll hope this has been a valuable episode. Share this episode with those that you feel could benefit from not only increasing longevity but increasing their health span as well. Dr. Rob Silverman, when and where will you be next? For those who are listening to this episode timely, you’re going to be in Wisconsin next week.
Dr. Rob Silverman: I will be in Wisconsin next week. You know what if you just go to my website, DrRobertSilverman.com, you can see where I’m teaching functional medicine. And you can see where I’m teaching laser for akoni lasers. We’re out on the road almost every weekend. We’re always strong in the Chiropractic and functional medicine model and markets.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Love it. Love it. We’ll make sure there’s a link there. So for Docs, if you want to connect with Rob Silverman in person and attend one of his seminars, I would highly, highly encourage that. We appreciate everything Dr. Rob Silverman is doing. If you guys want to pick up a copy of his book, which is amazing. By the way, he explains the immune system in such simple, easy, digestible terms. It should be standard reading for not only practitioners but patients alike, if you really want to take charge of your health in an impactful way, especially in lieu of the fact that unfortunately, we see some craziness coming down the pipeline right now. And if you want to avoid all the hype, and the panic and the fear, and you really want to learn some simple but powerful things that can empower you in terms of your health, get a copy of his book, immune reboot, it’s fantastic. So that’s it for today’s episode. We’ll talk to you guys on the next one. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to or codea.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as or Coleus II community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.
Listeners of “The Laser Light Show,” today we’re honored to host a trailblazer in the realms of chiropractic care and clinical nutrition – Dr. Robert G. Silverman.
A chiropractic doctor by training and a clinical nutritionist by passion, Dr. Silverman has cemented his reputation as an expert in the fusion of these two disciplines. He is the acclaimed author of “Inside-Out Health: A Revolutionary Approach to Your Body,” which not only took the medical community by storm but also clinched the #1 spot on Amazon in 2016. The ACA Sports Council further recognized his invaluable contributions to the world of sports chiropractic, honoring him with the prestigious title of “Sports Chiropractor of the Year” in 2015.
Educationally, Dr. Silverman’s portfolio is nothing short of impressive. Among his myriad achievements, he boasts a remarkable six degrees in clinical nutrition. Such extensive academic accomplishments undoubtedly feed into his expert practice at the Westchester Integrative Health Center. As its founder, he’s renowned for employing state-of-the-art, non-surgical techniques combined with functional nutrition to address joint pain, offering his patients innovative and efficient solutions.
His expertise isn’t limited to the confines of his practice. Dr. Silverman is a pivotal member of the advisory boards for both the Functional Medicine University and Metagenics, playing a key role in shaping the future of integrated medicine. When he’s not advising or treating, Dr. Silverman is a sought-after voice on the international speaking circuit, elucidating on topics close to his heart and practice.
Media outlets frequently tap into his insights, making him a regular on platforms like FOX News Channel, NBC, CBS, and CW affiliates. Moreover, his thoughts and expertise have graced the pages of esteemed publications such as The Wall Street Journal and NewsMax. Tech giant Google too recognized his prowess, inviting him to their esteemed “Talks at Google” series to discuss his bestselling book.
In addition to his media engagements, Dr. Silverman is a prolific writer, contributing regularly to both peer-reviewed journals and mainstream publications. His articles have illuminated readers of Integrative Practitioner, MindBodyGreen, Muscle and Fitness, The Original Internist, and Holistic Primary Care journals, among others, positioning him as a beacon of knowledge in his field.
As we delve into our conversation on low-level laser therapy today, Dr. Rob Silverman’s profound expertise promises an episode packed with revelations and insights. Let’s dive in!
To learn more about Dr. Silverman and to find out when and where he’s speaking next, check out his website here: https://drrobertsilverman.com/
Erchonia Corp., a laser technology manufacturer, will invest $6.7 million to relocate its corporate headquarters from Melbourne, Florida to Fountain Inn.
The investment is expected to create 51 jobs at the company’s facility in South Chase Industrial Park, which is expected to be operational by October 2023.
“We are looking forward to the completion of our state-of-the-art facility that is being built to our exact specifications,” said Erchonia Corp. President Steven Shanks. “As the location of Erchonia’s new corporate headquarters, Greenville County is centrally located and is ideal for Erchonia’s planned growth and expansion as a world leader in low-level laser technology.”
For more information, visit erchonia.com.
Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody Dr. Chad Woolner here with Dr. Andrew Wells. And on today’s episode of the laser light show, we have with us, Aaron Shanks and Kristy Sammons. We’re excited to chat with them. So let’s get to it.
Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry; they would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music from the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica. They were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is at helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic applications of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science, technology, and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the laser light show. All right, welcome to the show, everybody, and a special welcome to Aaron and Kristy. Good to have you both on the show with us.
Aaron & Kristy Sammons: Good to be here. It’s exciting.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So official titles, I’m gonna botch this but I know Aaron, you’re in charge of marketing at Erchonia and Kristy, you’re in charge of all the CE events and or all other events. Is that correct? Give us official titles, intros all that fun stuff.
Kristy Sammons: Trade Show and event coordinator.
Aaron Shanks: Marketing Director
Dr. Chad Woolner: Marketing director, and if I’m not mistaken, you guys are siblings, correct?
Aaron Shanks: Yep.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Brothers?
Aaron Shanks: She’s an older sister.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. We tried to pin down Christy and Charlie, who is the VP of the company, who is also Kristy’s father. But Charlie has been MIA this entire time. And so we’re gonna take this moment to shame him. And we are definitely excited to get to chat with Charlie at some point in time. But we are also equally, if not more, so excited to chat with both of you guys today. So yeah, tell us a little bit about your guys’ story, how you guys kind of got into the roles you’re now in. I think people would love to hear that.
Aaron Shanks: Yeah, so I mean, I started originally working in the assembly. So I’ve actually been there already for like 15 years starting young, just even from, you know, walking in on Fridays to see and how the business was working just slowly as 16 and 17, kind of doing sub-assembly parts for the lasers for customers EVs and things like that. And after kind of working on a lot of the sub-assemblies over time, I started getting full-time into working on specific products. So I was actually a full-time tech at one point for the EBS, worked in the percussion and adjuster section, then finally got to a full-time position actually building our handhelds, which was pretty cool. Wow. After that, I spent a few years in the service department. And kind of that’s when I started pivoting; I really wanted to kind of get into the sides of marketing, obviously, because of my dad, but also really liked design, you know, movie directing, and I was always into that when I was younger. So when I was in service, I started kind of finding opportunities as like half projects, working on the weekends and things like that for like graphic design, kind of started taking a liking to it, but also found that was an actual opportunity for our company at the time that I really could start learning that. So it was kind of doing that part-time until I got efficient enough to actually start really doing some projects that were a professional level to actually start using for Erchonia. So did graphic design for about six or seven years. But and then kind of the same thing. Like as I was getting better and better design. I was slowly trying to soak up as much knowledge from my dad as I could, you know, watching him going through the meetings, what’s he talking about? How is he kind of doing this, and he was slowly kind of grooming me for, you know, different ways to look at the design don’t just design a graphic but kind of look at the end pitch or what we’re trying to accomplish with it, which I think really kind of helped me start soaking it in when I finally got more involved with marketing to then look back on the designs and really try to figure out the full picture of what we’re doing. So I think that really helped from you know, a lot of aspects won’t even be in now that you’re finally in marketing before that actually got to see kind of the whole back end of how the company works and ran. So I think it really helped in marketing, but it’s it’s Crazy to now even see, you know, like your guys’s podcast is starting it’s amazing that are going he has a podcast for us. Like I remember these lasers being in, you know, Kevin’s dinner table, and you’d walk over Steve’s house and there’s nothing but you know, white research labels and these little mock-ups to now, you know, having 20,000 downloads I think or something like that on our podcast. And so it’s, it’s, it’s pretty incredible to see all this kind of form together to be what it is, thanks to my dad and Kevin and John and Steve and all them. So it’s been a mess. Yeah, yeah, that’s Yeah, yeah, you guys have done, I mean, your families have done a really good job of curating just an amazing family-led company. And I love the story about you when you’re younger, you know, assembling things and being a part of manufacturing. I remember, my wife grew up in her dad was a small business owner; he was in the woodworking business. So he would make and design and sell tools for woodworking. And so in their house might when my wife was young, she was you know, 910 12 years old. And the off time he would give her like, really menial tasks to do like you had to sort. They had this thing, and her family was called eight and eight and eights. So eight nights were like, you had to package eight bolts with eat nuts and put them in a package and that what happened was my, my father in law started getting complaints like, hey, there’s not enough bolts. So my father in law would like, you know, he’d get this, he’s like, Hey, all you have to do is make sure it’s eight and eight, just it’s really simple. So you can’t watch cartoons when you’re doing this anymore. Like, yeah, they would develop things like they would count the eight and eight. And then they would use a scale to actually wait to make sure that the weight made sense. And so that was kind of their quality control and assembly. But, you know, it’s really, it’s fun to hear those stories when you have, you know, companies that you’re built out of a garage and out of a house, and then they start to grow. And to your point, Aaron, like, that’s awesome, we have a podcast. And it’s, it, it, it’s fun to be a part of that. And we’re a very, very small part of that. But it’s fun to be kind of on the periphery and just watch not only what you guys have have gone through to develop this company, but now that 1000s of patients and doctors will probably millions of patients at this point that have benefited from that. It’s such a cool, such a cool, like, it’s just a classic, like American story, like, built out of a need. And now it’s you know, now it’s a worldwide company. It’s just It’s pretty, pretty, it’s pretty amazing. Yeah, it’s hard for us to even imagine it’s at that point right now. Yeah.
Kristy Sammons: We truly are.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, and I wanted to touch on just the point you kind of alluded to Aaron, and that is what an important crossover in your background and experience of having literally from the ground up seen from top to bottom the operations and been physically involved and what a powerful part that has played no doubt in your marketing of the company, right? Because it would be one thing if Erchonia just hired some sort of an outside consulting or marketing agency to come in, and they’re like, “We have a general idea of what this is all about.” This is coming from somebody who, through and through, knows from top to bottom exactly what you are marketing, right? And so that’s something when we teach and train practitioners Andrew and myself, you know that the thing that we, and it’s gonna sound like so superficial when I say it, but it’s like the truth. The fundamental like piece and foundation of your marketing needs to be this deeply instilled belief in what you are marketing, right? Yes. And, and people like, again, I know people like like, “Yeah, I get it, I get it.” And I’m like, “No, you don’t really get it unless you buy into it, you know, you got to—we jokingly say you got to drink that Kool-Aid, you know, you got to really, really do that.” And so that’s a no doubt such an important part of what has transpired to where you’re at now for sure.
Aaron Shanks: And it’s funny you said that because that has got to be probably my dad’s number one thing that he’s instilled dealing with anything in marketing and collaborations and influencers has always been his number one thing. We never want to be involved with people that do not truly believe in the product because people when you feel that, like if someone’s talking about something on a pitch that you have made, maybe paid for versus someone’s going, you know, “I don’t know how to make the best pitch. I don’t fully understand this. All I can tell you guys is it works. I used it; I believe in it. And everyone that Erchonia uses it every single day believes in it. So it was great working with you guys and the same thing. You guys started this podcast, but hey, look, you know, we’re using these lasers. This is incredible. We want to get more involved with Erchonia and involved in something like this.” So yes, it’s related was my dad’s number one thing for us all Always.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, for sure, for sure. So Kristy, tell us your story. Now it’s your turn.
Kristy Sammons: Okay. Very similar to my brother’s a lot of shots. Started in the mailroom when I was like 16, it’s after school job kind of similar to your wife doing the stuffings for our mailers that felt very tedious, got in trouble all the time for stamping stuff upside down. And then I actually helped out in shipping for a long time and got to work with my brother again in repair. That was kind of fun because I got to tell him what to do a little bit. I really enjoyed that a lot because I got to speak to our customers and really get like an inside knowledge of what they’re dealing with on the other side. And again, like being in the position I’m in now you have an appreciation, from top to bottom, every different position where when you haven’t worked in those in the past, you don’t really put all the pieces together so people don’t see, you know, “This affects us. And this affects that when you’ve worked all over, it helps put it all together. From there, I got pretty interested in like the marketing and the event side of things. So I got put into tradeshow coordination for quite a while and really fell in love with not even more. So the design part of it like my brother, I think we’re naturally creatives, but more the problem-solving. And I think that’s why I like for parents so much because it’s a lot of problem-solving. From there kind of took over the whole division, which has been really awesome.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Well, and the thing I would say, having worked with you personally, in the event space is it’s really is impressive to see just how well you do problem solve. I mean, again, just the little bit that we’ve seen, it’s a very—I will use the term dynamic process, right, where you’ll set up an event and everything’s like set, quote, unquote, set, it’s got everything, and then all of a sudden, last minute, they’re like, throw you a curveball, no, this needs to be changed or tweaked or whatever. And it’s it is it’s impressive to see how quickly you pivot and you’re like, “Okay, well, we’re gonna change this and tweak this and then do this.” And I personally don’t know if I could do that. I don’t—I don’t do well with, ask Andrew, working with me, I don’t do well with a lot of change and things on the fly like that. Sometimes I just, I really like things to be more rigid. So that’s impressive to see that whole whole process.
Kristy Sammons: Helps when you’re passionate about what you do too. It’s something that you enjoy doing. So it comes a little easier than a job that you’re not necessarily passionate about. So
Aaron Shanks: For sure that is in our business meetings too, incredible. If you just look even over the last five years of what our business meeting was to what it became. I mean, that was literally all her planning those events just became this, you know, back then, and we literally were getting doctors together to go golf. And, you know, just just to kind of bring everyone in to talk and now it’s this three day extravaganza. I mean, yes, he’s done an incredible job with that stuff. I mean, even on our last event, it was almost kind of intimidating. You walk me like, “Oh my god, this is a crazy event. Your sister’s got the clip war in the security next year, whether she’s got the little earpiece, and you’re like, ‘Hey, can I talk to you? Or like, do I need to ask somebody if I get it?'”
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. And I would have to imagine Kristy a lot of the enjoyment with what you’re doing now comes with working with the doctors, the professionals, the experts that you get to work with, you get some amazing Doc’s that you get to kind of rub shoulders with and work with in that arena.
Kristy Sammons: Absolutely. At first, it was very intimidating because being Charlie’s daughter, everyone knows who you are. But you don’t necessarily know who everyone is. Yeah, over the years, I’ve gotten to meet a lot of amazing doctors and hear all the amazing stories. And that’s pretty awesome. Especially like Aaron said at these business meetings, we really do get to connect with everyone. And that’s my favorite meeting just because we do get a lot of face to face time. But we don’t usually get sitting behind our desks doing our jobs. So
Aaron Shanks: That was common. I think it was correct me if I’m wrong, Chad, Dr. Mike Powell, we just had on the podcast said the same really the same thing about the business meeting, but also the events that you guys put on is that the people who attend those events not only get to hear from some of the smartest Doc’s in healthcare, but they also get to actually meet them and talk to them and understand how they’re using lasers. And it’s a unique event. Like you don’t typically go to events like that where you see someone on stage, they’re up on stage and they’re gone and then they leave the event. And then like, “Oh, that was a really cool talk and what you guys have done. And Kristy, you, I think you’ve done a really good job of creating events that are really personal, personable and personal. And that actually come out there like, you get to rub shoulders with some of the kind of the icons and it’s amazing. And then thankfully, they still do the golf event . That was the part that I was nervous about because I don’t golf and and I walked away from that first one. Like, I think it was the second time I’d ever played golf. And I told Joseph after that I’m like, “I’m a golfer now. Like, it was so cool. We had such a blast. Just just kind of, you know, kick it back and have fun. And that was really special to
Kristy Sammons: when we want people to leave inspired and we want them to leave having a good time. So that’s kind of our goal for those meetings.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Mission accomplished. Yeah, those are amazing. You’re Kristy, you’re also involved with outside coordination of non Erchonia, like for like Parker, and things like that? Correct. So you coordinate all of those as well.
Kristy Sammons: Again, get to meet some really awesome people. And a lot of the trade show coordinators for some of the DC side, Yeah. they’re also doctors too. So it’s really cool to be able to talk to them. And then when they get to using our laser, they’re like, “This is amazing. We want you guys at every event.” So yeah, a lot of relationships that way too, which has been great. So
Dr. Chad Woolner: for perspective for everybody listening, how many events per year Are you coordinating? What does that look like?
Kristy Sammons: Um, we typically do 70 Yeah, 70 ish events never take
Dr. Chad Woolner: you out of the lot. That is a lot of events. And the thing too, is that’s not just the coordination of the events, but also just the geographical coordination, the travel arrangements, the hotel arrangements that you know, everything behind the scenes that is like, you know, a full time job, I think, is putting that lightly in terms of how to coordinate all that. That’s incredible. Really, really
Aaron Shanks: ask that question, and the listeners can’t see. Because this is only an audio podcast, but we can see each other we’re actually recording this on Zoom. And we when you ask that question, Chad, I don’t know if you noticed this, Kristy, you took a deep breath in and a big it’s a lot to juggle
Kristy Sammons: balls on the weekend with something happening.
Dr. Chad Woolner: For reference, you know, our story with Erchonia goes back to it started at a Parker seminar.
Kristy Sammons: I remember you guys, I didn’t remember you when you said it. And then when we were there, I was like, I do I remember this
Dr. Chad Woolner: Now. And it was funny because for those, and I don’t know if we’ve shared this story on this podcast or not before, but basically what happened was, we first met Penny. We had her on our simplified functional medicine podcast, which is still there, we still do that podcast, too. And we interviewed her and she just blew us away. We were like, holy cow, if Penny is any sort of an indication of, you know, and that and that’s the truth that’s held true. It’s like, you know, just she is a great representation of the caliber of people that are there. And so that led to
Dr. Andrew Wells: Us. Sorry. I just want to add to this. Yeah. Right. Before we interviewed Penny, we actually interviewed somebody from another laser company. And we’re like, oh, lasers are pretty cool. And like that this is interesting. And then we interviewed penny, and we’re like, Whoa, yeah, that’s actually how that happened. And we’re like, Patty made such a big impression on us because she was so good at articulating why you should use lasers. And we were like, so naive. We’re like, oh, you could use lasers for musculoskeletal pain? And she’s like, No, you can use it for everything. And we’re like, What do you mean everything she’s like, you can use it for everything. You know, and she was very, you know, careful not to, you know, tread on the other FDA clearances for certain things, but a lot of providers use it for a lot of other things that are off label. And we had a chat offline. And so yeah, it really all kind of started with with that interview with penne, we were just Yeah, kind of taken aback by all the things that we we didn’t know amazing.
Dr. Chad Woolner: And so that led to then we got invited to the VIP party that Erchonia had hosted and that was that led to and it’s so funny for those. I guess I’m just out of my element at those types of events. Because music is just bumping. It’s like imagining a European discotheque. You know, with like, techno music just just bumping. And that’s when I Met Your Dad Charlie for the first time. And we proceeded to have this conversation of me yelling in his ear, trying some sort of like a conversation about it. Just ask him because he’s VP of the company and or VP of Marketing, correct. I mean, that says, yes, yes, roll. And so we just got talked to talking about marketing. And then one thing led to another in terms of like, Hey, do you guys have a podcast? And he’s like, No, we don’t have a podcast. And I’m like, well, we need to remedy that. And that night was when Andrew and I started kind of brainstorming and then we, you know, again, the rest is history as it goes. And so
Kristy Sammons: is doing my little tiny couch with I think it was with Dr. Berry. I love it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, that was that was a ton of fun. So
Aaron Shanks: the one with Brandon as well, Brandon and Trevor.
Dr. Chad Woolner: The if that was the late night episode, yes. Then that was
Dr. Andrew Wells: it. I was like, I was in bed ready to fall asleep. And I hear on my, on my hotel door and comes Trevor and Brandon, like, we’re going to do an episode. And they had been out that night, and they were having a good time. And we did episodes initiation.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That was fun one. So tell us a little bit more, Aaron. And we’re Kristy kind of some of the future plans with Erchonia right now. Because there’s some really, really exciting stuff that’s happening. Obviously, on the marketing side, and on the event side, and kind of how these worlds are coming together. There’s a new facility that’s being built. Just bring us up to speed and tell everybody kind of what’s happening. Future wise. Yeah,
Kristy Sammons: We’re relocating to South Carolina here in the next couple of months, and the facility is almost done. And we are all so excited to be able to share it with everyone. It’s beautiful, high-tech, and it’s going to be amazing. So we cannot wait for everyone to see that. We don’t have our open house/grand opening date planned as of yet, but we hope to have that soon. We are planning on doing a seminar in Greenville in December with Dr. Brandon and Dr. Kristen Highshatter. So hopefully, if you’re close in the area, you can make it out to that. I believe we’re also going to livestream that event as well. We don’t know if we’ll be able to host it at our new building yet; we’re hoping we can. So if you can’t make it out, hopefully, you’ll see it on camera.
Aaron Shanks: The only thing I was gonna say I’m really excited about this is you guys know, we’re trying to, you know, slowly make a break into the vet market with Erchonia. And it seems like finally, a lot of amazing things are happening. But one of which I actually got the pleasure of going out to was the Rhino 911 event with Michelle Burke, which I think you guys are actually going to do a podcast with her. But that event of basically being able to get our lasers into working with them through endangered species with rhinos and have seen what was going on out there. And now the fact that our lasers are being flown out there during that Rhino 911 project to be able to help them recover. And it’s been pretty incredible. I mean, again, when you’re out Erchonia, and this is just kind of your life day to day, you can’t really get that step back to see how far it’s really come. And when I was at that event, you’re seeing the stories, you’re seeing these facts really start understanding that not just in the human market, but you know, the power that these things can have with our animals as well has been pretty exciting. So and I just wanted to say one other thing is to know, I love your guys’ idea of the Miracle Mondays. Because, you know, for so long again, as we always have understood what our lasers have done, we hear the stories internally, but you know, as the marketing and the medical company, you have to be very careful with certain things you say and clearances, but we know what these things can really do. And to hear those stories from, you know, real people outside of our family in the company that, you know, while our lasers really are changing people’s lives and hearing some of these stories, especially for us to be able to look out and see what’s going on out there has been incredible. So thank you guys for doing those. They’ve been amazing.
Dr. Chad Woolner: No, absolutely. Yeah, no, I would 100% second exactly what you said there. You know, it’s one thing, I think that there’s a beautiful balance, we’ll call it that, that occurs when you look at all of the real kind of hard-level scientific research, right? Just very, you know, I don’t want to say black and white but, you know, just it’s highly scientific. It’s very academic. It’s, you know, and we want that and we need that. But there’s also again, a human element to it, that’s far more emotional or you can even say, artistic and just beautiful, you know, and those are the stories that we hear, you know, lives being impacted. And oftentimes, lives being impacted in ways that can’t fully be explained, can’t fully be quantified in a lab. You know, there’s just something about it, you know, the stories that we’re hearing from these practitioners, and I think people want to hear those types of stories they want to, you know, see the direct impact. And then that’s the exciting thing that, you know, it has been truly, and I hope people know this like as sincerely as I can say this, it has been such a privilege for Andrew and myself. I feel like we’re becoming experts by osmosis, you know, in terms of hearing, you know, truly like hearing from all the, we get the opportunity to be a part of this and get to talk with all these incredible people, both academically incredible but just amazing people, you know, just wonderful, wonderful people through and through you guys included in that it’s been so fun. Getting to just rub shoulders with you guys and connect with you. We I’ll tell you, I don’t think we have yet an episode where people like literally in the most authentic ways are not singing the praises of everybody in Erchonia, the culture with your company, the the the experts that you guys bring to the table, just the family culture and the fact that this is such a vision-driven organization and purpose-driven organization, and you look at both on the human side and exactly what you just said there, what a great cause to be involved with that Rhino 911 and so many other organizations and causes that you guys are also involved with it’s so how can you not be excited about this? It’s It’s incredible, absolutely incredible.
Aaron Shanks: It’s been amazing. And they are and you guys have been a blessing as well. I mean, because again, this podcast, getting that outreach of people, you know, because I hear this a lot now that even a lot of our doctors that own our lasers now referred to your guys’s podcast to have their patients go listen to them. They’re, you know, learn more about on hear from the stories yourself. You don’t have to take my word for it, you get 1000s of other doctors and patients that have all done this. So it’s been amazing to have you guys build this up with us as well. It’s been great.
Kristy Sammons: Well, that get injured. Yeah. Go lasered in if you don’t believe me, here’s a podcast go listen, all the stories and half my gym has listened to your pod
Aaron Shanks: on that one a few times to show up at the gym. And you’re kind of seeing that violet and that green, you go. Like what is that? Like? I’ll be telling you about it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, it’s funny you say that because being in practice myself. That’s what I’ll do with my own patients, too, right? As I’m like, these lasers are amazing. And I could sit here and tell you for hours and hours and hours, but you probably don’t want me to sit here and Firehose you to death. And so rather than that, just go if you listen, I always like to listen to podcasts or like, yeah, of course, everybody listens to podcasts. Okay, well just look up the laser light show and start listening to it. They’re like, okay, and so it’s, it’s, it’s been fun for me. And it’s been a great resource for me too. Because it’s and again, the nice thing is, it’s not just me talking, it’s like, just listen to listen to these experts. Let them kind of share their experiences. So yeah, incredible. Absolutely incredible. So, Andrew, any final thoughts from you?
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, we’re looking forward to however the either the business meeting or open house shapes up for the end of the year. We’re waiting to see what happens and looking forward to that event. And yeah, thanks, guys for being on. This is really fun for us. It’s nice to talk to the ones who were kids, and now we’re adults running the Erchonia company.
Aaron Shanks: Oh, that just added more stress when you said that.
Dr. Chad Woolner: The last question I have is because Kristy you have two kids, three kids, you have two girls, two girls, are they in the mailroom yet?
Kristy Shanks: Dell always counting down the days.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay, that’s going to be, I think, for me one of the coolest things to see. Right. Because when we start seeing are there grandkids working at our company at this point in time, or is yours? Are yours the first? Yeah, they’re our grandkids. Yeah, I think so. I think there’s one Yeah. But I mean, we hope for first. I think it’s as you get to be around the family all day long. I mean, what better way to go to work than to see all the people you love and care about? Does it add a little extra stress for sure, because you want to do your best but it’s awesome. You know, that’s so cool to hear. Because we hear so often like, Oh, don’t go into business with family and don’t work with family and this, that or the other. My personal experience is I’ve worked with family over the years off and on. And it’s been fantastic. And so it’s very wonderful and refreshing to hear and more importantly, see the fact that, you know, you guys have figured out a way to make that work and work very, very well. And so that should, that says a lot. It really, really does. So, anyhow,
Aaron Shanks: I want to plan for something. My boys are six and eight years old. We live only about an hour away from your new headquarters. So maybe when they get a little older, I can just like ship them down there for like,
Dr. Andrew Wells: a summer training camp.
Aaron Shanks: You gotta give them like the worst, most menial jobs.
Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s yeah. I remember specifically, I had to shrink wrap. And all I had to do was just cut the shrink wrap and the wires to a certain length. Like, well, how many you want me to do? I just want you to keep cutting those until we tell you to leave at the end. Sure I get yep, that’s all you got to do. Everybody’s got to start somewhere.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Erchonia internship, we’re opening up open Yes. For applications as we speak. So awesome. Well, Aaron, and Kristy, it has been an absolute pleasure. We appreciate you guys, for everything you do for us for Erchonia customers for Erchonia for everybody, we really do appreciate it and appreciate you guys being here on the show with us. And we hope for those listening, we hope that this has given you maybe just a little bit of a glimpse into what our coding is like behind the scenes and and what’s going on. And this is the company that you’re working with, if you’re a practitioner, or a patient like this is where the lasers come from. And and we hope that that instills within you a higher level of confidence and comfort and assurance knowing you’re in good hands with this company. It’s a great company, very much. Like Andrew said at the beginning of very, we’ll call it an Americana, you know, family-run company, everything that is good about this country is represented with this story here. So it’s a real incredible story. And it’s a privilege and honor. So thank you guys. We really really appreciate it. So for those listening, share this episode. Hopefully this has been incredibly valuable and we will talk to you all on the next episode. Have a good one.
Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as Erchonia E community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.
Aaron Shanks has been with the company for 15 years, starting from a young age he worked on sub-assembly parts for lasers and eventually became a full-time tech for EBS. As his skills developed at the company, so did Aaron’s interest with marketing and design. Now in marketing, he appreciates the incredible growth of the Erchonia company and the impact of the podcast, reflecting on the early days when the business operated out of homes and garages.
Kristy Sammons, older sister to Aaron Shanks, follows a similar career path starting in the mailroom at 16. Despite finding tasks like stuffing mailers tedious and facing challenges, they eventually moved to shipping and repair, where working with her brother was enjoyable. Discovering a similar passion for marketing and events, Kristy now works as a trade show coordinator, discovering a passion for problem-solving and eventually taking over the entire division.
The Shank siblings express their excitement as Erchonia continues to grow and gain traction in differing medicinal spheres. Breaking into the veterinary market, and highlighting their involvement in the Rhino 911 event with Michelle Burke. They discuss the remarkable impact of Erchonia lasers on endangered species like rhinos, emphasizing the significance of extending their benefits beyond the human market.
Listen to siblings Aaron and Kristy Shank from the Erchonia family as they discuss their breakthrough in the market and Erchonia’s future hopes.
“It helps when you’re passionate about what you do too. It’s something that you enjoy doing. So it comes a little easier than a job that you’re not necessarily passionate about.” -Kristy Sammons
“it’s just a classic, like American story, like, built out of a need. And now it’s you know, now it’s a worldwide company.” -Aaron Shank
Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody, Dr. Chad Woolner here with Dr. Andrew Wells. And on today’s episode of the laser light show we have with us a special guest, Dr. Eric Block. We’re so excited to chat with him. So let’s get started.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry, they would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music from the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica. They were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect in my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I’ve seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is at helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems, as the leader in laser therapy, or Konya has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner, along with my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the laser light show. All right, everybody. Welcome to the show. And a special welcome to our guest, Dr. Eric Block. Thank you so much for being here, my friend. Good to have you.
Dr. Eric Block: Pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys.
Dr. Chad Woolner: You bet. So, Dr. Block, you are a dentist, is that correct?
Dr. Eric Block: I am a dentist. I live in practice about 30 minutes west of Boston. And I’ve been practicing for about 20 years. Fantastic.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your story of how you got started with Erchonia? Because I think for a lot of practitioners, or at least myself, we’re pretty used to hearing chiropractors, even medical doctors. But dentists are as though dentists are just starting to kind of get into this realm of Erchonia lasers. How did that happen for you?
Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, so I’m the vice chairman of medical and dental for all tech industries. And we’re all about clean energy and kind of a greener living and also reducing addiction to pain medications within the medical medical community. And that’s where konia just seemed like a perfect fit. And I started doing more research into it and just very recently added it to my practice, as a dentist. Now, as a dentist, this is a new treatment modality for me. And for a lot of dentists. When you think of lasers in dentistry, it’s more of a cut and cauterize action where you’re actually cutting soft tissue, or you’re cutting bone or even some lasers even cut to structure. So this is a very different type of laser, the low level light laser, so I’m excited to start to use it. For my patients, I do a lot of surgeries, extractions and implants. So I’m going to use it post op surgery, I do see patients that come in for TMJ pain, and that’s really just going to be the beginning, I’m going to start to plant the seeds and start using it as much as I can. And, you know, some great advice that I got from David here to draconian was, don’t be afraid to use it, you know, I’m gonna start using it as much as possible, but it’s a very new treatment modality for me as a dentist.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, I would imagine exactly what you said, I would imagine that we haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of the applications in just the dental realm, you know, knowing what we know, and seeing what we see with these lasers in terms of the applications. You know, we had a conversation with a great dentist, Dr. Dr. Radford down in California, and he was talking about, you know, already using it for TMJ pain and TMJ issues he was talking about, you know, kind of the the musculoskeletal conditions, but he also was starting to just beginning to explore the potential use for sleep apnea type problems and things like that. What would you say are some of the things right now, in your mind that you’re going towards that you could see in terms of some of these applications?
Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, so all the things that you just mentioned, for sure. But I want to go back a little bit earlier in my career. And, you know, you too, may have experienced this as well. And I know a lot of dentists and fidget physicians and I’m hearing a lot about veterinarians as well. Maybe chiropractors as well, but I went through a tremendous amount of burnout. Halfway through my career. I actually was so full of anxiety and stress, and I actually thought about Lee in dentistry, I was just so afraid of getting sued, I was so afraid of getting a bad review. You know, in school, we were taught to be perfect. And if you had a less than perfect results, then, you know, that was looked down upon. And it was really just me, you know, putting too much pressure on myself. So I ended up calling a local therapist and I started going through therapy. And I really just learned that I was putting too much pressure on myself. I was saying yes to everyone and everything else and not saying yes to myself. So I started to make some major changes, and really started to focus on the good things that happened during the day and not the one or two bad things that happened during the day. And this took a while. And it was also a combination of some prescribed medications that have really helped me. But I got through burnout, and I was able to overcome it. And I actually wrote a book called The stress free dentist. And I feel like adding a new treatment modality like this is re-energizing. When you’re doing the same old thing over and over again, you can get burned out, which is a one way ticket to burnout city. So for example, this year, I started adding sleep and airway to my practice. Last year, I added clear aligners, I added a 3d printer, we added the same day mil I’m excited about these things, I go into work excited. And adding low level laser therapy to me is like this brand new treatment modality that I’ve yet even to just scratch the surface of so I’m excited about it. I’m looking forward to try it on all those things that you mentioned. So that’s kind of where I am today. And I just wanted to share that.
Dr. Chad Woolner: No, I’m glad you did share that. First off. This is the first time I’ve ever heard of dentists being burnt out before every other dentist we’ve ever talked to says life is just peaches. And no. No totally can understand and appreciate that. That’s I think that’s a common sentiment across a lot of healthcare professionals is I think most that are listening, any healthcare professional can completely appreciate and I’m sure that resonates that it can create a tremendous amount of stress you got into your profession, regardless of whether you’re a dentist, medical doctor, acupuncturist, chiropractor, physical therapist, we all got into it with the same intent and reason and that is to help serve people. And I would just simply point out and I’m sure you’ve probably connected these dots. It’s not surprising that you feel an invigoration and re-energizing and or renewed sense of passion and purpose. When you’re investing in these technologies. It’s it’s cool, and the technology is great. But when you step back and look at what you’re doing, what you’re doing is you’re doing this with the intent to help better serve. You’re looking for strategies and solutions to help patients better solve problems. And no doubt what it’s doing. And the reason why you’re being invigorated and re-energized is because it’s helping you better help them. And that’s that’s extremely rewarding. That’s That’s my guess. And I’m assuming you’ve kind of connected those dots yourself. Correct?
Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, I’m also what I learned, you know, I thought there was something wrong with me and you know, going through therapy and coach and I still have a coach. And I, I was a psychology major at Tulane. And I knew I’d always wanted to go through therapy. And I finally just said, You know what, you can’t go into work miserable every day and looking forward to the weekend. So you can decompress from the week, or looking forward to five o’clock, so you could go home. And there was a point where I couldn’t wait until lunch. So I could go home and decompress for an hour. I said, There’s no way you can live like this. So I always want to go through therapy, and I finally picked up the phone and did it. And what I learned is that I’m more of an introverted person. Even though I have podcasts, and I speak and do webinars, I decompress and kind of re-energize myself by being quiet and being alone. Whereas the the social nature of the profession was a grind to me where if you think about it, no one wants a sad, tired dentist working on them, you’ve always got to kind of be on and you know, be in a good mood. And you got to give that patient that great experience. You know why? So they’ll come back and they’ll tell their friends and family and you treat them well. And that’s how you snowball and pretty great practice. But doing this over and over and over again throughout the day was just exhausting to me. So I realized that that’s the way I tick, you know, there’s nothing wrong with me. There’s going to be days where I’m, you know, totally exhausted. But I understand that. This is the profession that I’ve chosen. It is a high-stress profession. And one of the ways to avoid burnout is to do start to, you know, add new items to your menu. If you’re just doing it, like I said, the same old thing, you’re gonna, you’re gonna burn out also, the nature of the profession is very physically taxing. You know, when you’re leaning over and you’re in a weird position for a half an hour, and you’re staring at this one-millimeter space, you’re gonna have sharp things and drills and needles in a patient’s mouth. Over the course of a career, you can create a lot of neck and back pain. So I think that one first step for dentists to get involved with laser with their cornea is to use it on themselves. But the other thing is that when you provide this treatment for a patient, it’s not a backbreaking treatment, you can, you know, set it up on a stand, you can delegate it, or you can stand there and use it yourself. It’s such a great, you know, different type of treatment than we’re used to with doing fillings and crowns all day.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, boy, you touched on a lot of stuff there, right? I think a lot of dentists have great relationships with chiropractors, both Andrew and myself are our chiropractors. And no doubt, I couldn’t imagine. I mean, chiropractors themselves put a lot of wear and tear on their bodies, adjusting patients. similar but different in terms of the type of wear and tear dentists, exactly what you said it’s that hunched over, you can’t really avoid it, I think you could go to, you know, an infinite number of ergonomic seminars out there. But at the end of the day, you got to do what you got to do in terms of being hunched over a patient to get inside their mouth. And so no doubt that’s going to take its toll. And so you’re exactly right. Is that kind of how you first came in touch with Erchonia and started using it yourself.
Dr. Eric Block: Actually, I just wanted to jump back to what you’re saying a total game-changer for me, has been I actually removed the chairs from my office and my operatories. So I stand now like it’s the 1920s today, and that has been a game-changer. For me, you know, they say that sitting is like smoking. Yeah, I, I believe it because I used to have a, you know, I used to be hunched over and timid, which is silly, I would not want to bother, the patient has to move their head around. So I would compensate and lean over, where now I stand. And I totally direct the patient exactly where I need them to go. Because they’re only holding that position, you know, for a few minutes where I’ve held that position for 30 years, so I don’t compensate on that any more and more direct. I also use an isolation device that helps keep the mouth open and retract the lips and cheek. So there’s, there’s certain things that I’ve done that have really made my neck and back pain go down to you know, minimal, you know, twitches here and there. Having said that, I wish I knew about the Erchonia laser, you know, years ago because I would have been using it on myself. But I do use it for my trapezius, which do get tight. But the changes that I’ve made have been a total game-changer for my for my for my physical health, which if you think about it, if you’re physically in pain, then you’re mentally in pain too. No one that is having physical pain is a happy camper. So it really can affect your, you know, your mental status, too.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah. Maybe Dr. Block, take us through how you’re actually using it on a day-to-day basis lasers in practice, like what lasers? Do you use other certain procedures you use them for? What does that? What does that kind of day-to-day use look like?
Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, so I just got mine. And that’s why I’m really excited about it. It’s been maybe a few weeks since I have it. And with what I’ve learned in dentistry and a business owner, I have a staff of about 25 I have to take things slow. I’ve done this in the past where I’ve tried to crowbar in, you know, something new, and I was the only one excited about it. And, you know, no one else was and I got a lot of pushback from everyone. So now I’m slowly introducing this. And I really think that 2024 will be my year to really accelerate my use of the laser but I do a lot of implants and surgeries and extractions. So I use it for post-op reduction of discomfort and anti-inflammatory and then I’ll see the patient you know, week or two later for their post-op and use it again. And then also which it sounds funny, but I’ve used it twice on a patient with, you know, one patient with tennis elbow, and another patient with golf elbow. And you know a lot of times dentists we become like a patient’s, you know, therapists they, they’re just having someone to talk to right. Sure chiropractor is the same way. So They start to tell you all of their problems. And I’ve had two people talking about, oh, you know, I’ve had this, you know, golf elbow or tennis elbow, and I’m like, I’ve got just the thing for you. So, you know, I’ll use it on their, their elbow, and they’re telling their, you know, their spouse, that they’re going back for a second treatment for their elbow at the dentist, and like your dentist is doing. Mostly, really just starting out, or they start to plant those seeds, I’m going to start to use it on my staff. That’s a huge thing when you when you add something new, use it on your staff and their families, and there’ll be your biggest cheerleaders. And then that starts to spill over into the practice. I have about 4500 active patients, so they’re there, I don’t even need to mark it for yet. It all be internal. So most of my use of it right now has been post-op for surgeries. And I’m waiting, you know, for some TMJ cases to come in. And the occasional elbow issue.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, boy couldn’t agree more with you with exactly what you’re saying. In fact, that’s what we teach Docs all the time. And I think I have to imagine most Docs can totally relate, you hit something nail on the head, that what can happen and I hope Docs recognize this kind of pattern that you clearly recognized, is you get excited about something and what you want is immediate implementation of that thing, whatever it is, you use the analogy of crowbar and get in, right? And, and that’s so important that you need, and that ties hand in hand with exactly what you just said, in terms of using these things on your team. There has to be adoption and belief and buy in from the team. And that makes such perfect sense. And that’s exactly what I saw in my practice. When we started using lasers. In our practice was that very thing. I’m curious, which laser are you currently using in your practice Dr. Block,
Dr. Eric Block: I have the handheld, the red and the ultraviolet laser. And it’s amazing how many settings it already had for certain things such as gingivitis and gum disease and post-op for surgery already in there. So you know, I imagine, you know, the more I use it, the more situations that we can figure out its use for and it will just, you know, keep increasing those, those protocols. Yeah. And another thing I wanted to mention is, with something like a laser, as well as sleep and airway treatment, which I’ve started, it can really kind of bring different medical communities together, we can bring the chiropractor, the dentist and the physician together the EMT, I think it creates more of a collaborative opportunity where, you know, I don’t really know many physicians in my, my town or my neighborhood, maybe this is a way where I could start to meet them, we could start to have collaborative cases with patients. So I think it’s just going to snowball and just continue. So like I’ve, like I’ve said I’m super excited about it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, what a great point that that that is I think, at the end of the day, what you’re talking about there the patient is the ultimate person who will benefit from that type of collaboration that I think any patients listening this would would say a big Amen, I think patients want their healthcare team communicating and on some level or another being on the same page having a certain level of mutual understanding and or mutual respect. I think it’s unfortunate that sometimes we see whether intentional or unintentional, certain practitioners kind of getting a little bit territorial and or my way is the best. No other way is as good as mine and what you’re saying there is so, so necessary and so needed.
Dr. Andrew Wells: One thing I wanted to pick up on too and I love your point about collaboration. And the unique thing about lasers is this is one modality that can be used across every single health profession. It doesn’t matter if you’re in mental healthcare if you’re a psych psychiatrist, psychologist, chiropractor, physical therapist, dentist, surgeon, veterinarian. We have had quite a few veterinarians on the podcast in the past and are coming up with acupuncturist lasers that have so many applications for so many different things. This is kind of a common denominator or a common tool that I should say that can be used across and should be used across every healthcare profession. And I think that’s actually a really brilliant way to start making more collaborative relationships with providers because our it’s a huge complaint that patients have is hey, my, my doc doesn’t talk to my other doc. And there’s no communication. This is, you know, could be a potential way to start conversations. And late there’s something about a laser, there’s, there’s a lot of curiosity around this. This device I was having one of our friends was over for, brought his boys over to play in our house and I was lasering my leg, he’s like, What is that thing? Oh my god. So laser, he’s like, what was it do I’m like, it’s kind of explaining how it works. And he’s like, you know, my back hurts, I’m like, pull up your shirt, I’m gonna lose your back. He’s like, all right. And it’s just, it just, it’s a great way to start a conversation, I think in healthcare, we’re patients and providers alike are dying for meaningful collaboration and just convert at the very least conversation.
Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, there’s a wow factor to it, where, when you pull up that laser, and you show a patient, or you show your staff, there’s the absolute wow factor, and show it off. I mean, if you don’t show it to people, they don’t, they don’t know about it, and they won’t know that you have it. It is going to be such a great, you know, extra treatment that we add, and, you know, once I get going, I’m going to market it. And it’s it’s, you know, with organic SEO, and on my website, that’s the thing about when you get a new piece of technology, you know, show it off. I’m actually going to use it and not charge patients at first, just to kind of build up my, my cases and my testimonials. And then once I start to get some cases under my belt, then I’m gonna figure out a package where I, you know, have patients come in, you know, five times to 10 times were actually charged for it. And that’s the other thing, it’s a, it’s a nice procedure, you’re providing for a patient that you can, you can bill out, it’s another source of revenue, and, you know, dentists are coming out with, you know, four to $500,000 worth of debt, you know, and they’re worried, you know, how they’re going to pay their loans and their bills. And this is just an extra, you know, really cool thing. And when you buy, when you get something new, you have to use it, you know, I’ve heard of so many people buying, you know, expensive technology, and then it just becomes a dust collector, or they hang up their scrubs on it, you’ve got to use it, you know, if if you buy something, and it’s not working out for you, you know, shame on you for not using it or not getting the help from the company, Erchonia has so much great research out there so much great customer service, they’re there for you. But you got to use it, and you got to show it off and let your patients know that you have it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And the thing that I would say that’s beautiful about akoni lasers is, and I’m sure you appreciate this edit as a dentist is that so many of the things that you do in dentistry have hard costs associated with them. And that can be a challenge, no doubt, you know, in terms of running a business that way, when you have to factor in hard costs. With these lasers, you invest in the laser, and then moving forward, there aren’t any hard costs associated with utilizing said laser. And so from, from a financial standpoint, that’s kind of nice, because that’s just pure profit moving forward, when when you’re utilizing that, and that’s a that’s a that’s a and also just the fact that you know that this is something that you can utilize to better help serve your patients and provide yet again, another solution for them. So so yeah.
Dr. Eric Block: Yeah, yep, I’m gonna, I’m going to be using it on myself and my staff and their families at first. And, you know, that’s, that’s how you that’s how you grow a new treatment modality in your practice. It starts there. And once you if you treat a staff member, or their family member and you help them with pain, they will jump into that operatory and be excited to tell your patients about it. And it’ll just it’ll just blow up like wildfire.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. Absolutely. Super excited. Yeah, no doubt. Well, Dr. Block, we sure appreciate you being here on the show with us. We appreciate you sharing your experiences. We’re excited for you getting started here. Dr. Wells, any final thoughts?
Dr. Andrew Wells: Thanks, Dr. Block for being on here. We really appreciate you sharing your insights as you’re starting to incorporate Erchonia lasers into your practice. And I think what you’re doing in dentistry, and kind of, I would say leading the charge I don’t know of any other dentists I know. And I should say a handful of dentists that are doing this and no doubt 10 years down the road, we’ll have a lot more dentists use utilizing lasers for all the right reasons and all the reasons that you mentioned. And we just really appreciate you taking the time to explain your experiences so far, and we wish you all the best and happy to hear that you’re you’ve made an awesome transformation in practice and no doubt you have a really bright career ahead of you and post burnout face so we’re happy for you for that, for sure.
Dr. Eric Block: Thanks, guys was it a pleasure? Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Thanks, everybody for tuning into this episode. This has been a blast getting to know and chat with Dr. Block. And we’ll talk to you all on the next episode. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to Erchonia.com There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as Erchonia E community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.
Dr.Block is a highly dedicated and accomplished dentist, committed to integrating the latest advancements, techniques, and technologies into his practice. Graduating with a degree in Psychology from Tulane University in 1997 and completing his dental education at Nova Southeastern College of Dental Medicine in 2002, and further refining his skills during a 2-year Implantology Residency at Boston University.
Dr. Block extends his expertise to areas like dental sleep medicine, orthodontics, and clear aligner technology. As a Key Opinion Leader for Orthofx, he contributes to the future of clear aligner technology. Beyond his clinical work, he co-founded the International Academy of Dental Life Coaches, emphasizing mentorship and community support for dental professionals. Dr. Block’s multifaceted contributions include hosting dental-focused podcasts, authoring books like “The Stress-Free Dentist” and “Stress-Free Dental Implants,” and upcoming releases, “My Left Over Dino Nuggets” and “The Stress-Free Entrepreneur.” His extensive affiliations, committee chairmanship, and advisory roles underscore his commitment to innovation and excellence in the dental field.
Certified by the American Association of Dental Boards for continuing education, Dr. Block is an advocate for professional advancement. He generously shares his knowledge through lectures globally, covering topics such as practice management, digital dentistry, and health and wellness. Specializing in dental implants, he excels in both surgical and restorative phases, showcasing mastery over 3-D technology and computer-guided implant planning.
“I use it for post-op reduction of discomfort and anti-inflammatory and then I’ll see the patient you know, a week or two later for their post-op and use it again.” Dr. Block
“…something like a laser, as well as sleep and airway treatment, which I’ve started, it can really kind of bring different medical communities together, we can bring the chiropractor, the dentist and the physician together the EMT, I think it creates more of a collaborative opportunity where, you know, I don’t really know many physicians in my, my town or my neighborhood, maybe this is a way where I could start to meet them, we could start to have collaborative cases with patients.” -Dr. Block
“Erchonia has so much great research out there so much great customer service, they’re there for you. But you got to use it, and you got to show it off and let your patients know that you have it.” -Dr. Block
7-Minute Read
Musculoskeletal conditions cast a shadow on countless lives, urging the pursuit of effective and minimally invasive pain remedies. While traditional therapies provide partial respite, their boundaries fuel a quest for alternatives.
Amid these choices, Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) emerges, heralding potential to soothe inflammation, mitigate pain, and advance recovery across an array of musculoskeletal conditions.
Musculoskeletal conditions encompass a spectrum of disorders, injuries, and irregularities affecting the intricate interplay of muscles, bones, joints, ligaments, tendons, and related tissues within the human body.
These conditions present as diverse manifestations, including discomfort, inflammation, restricted mobility, stiffness, and various impairments that compromise the seamless functioning of the musculoskeletal system. From acute injuries like fractures and sprains to enduring maladies such as osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, persistent back pain, tendonitis, and a myriad of others, musculoskeletal conditions cast a wide net over human well-being.
Musculoskeletal conditions, a top contributor to global disability according to the World Health Organization, are becoming an increasingly pressing concern worldwide. ¹
It is imperative to recognize that these conditions wield considerable influence over an individual’s capacity to navigate daily life, engage in routine activities, and uphold their overall physical vitality.
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), musculoskeletal conditions are the leading contributors to global disability, with low back pain alone being the predominant cause of disability in 160 countries.¹ The exponential growth in the prevalence of musculoskeletal conditions, driven by factors like population growth and aging, highlights their increasing importance on the global health landscape.¹
Addressing musculoskeletal conditions typically necessitates a multifaceted approach, encompassing medical interventions, physical therapy, tailored exercise regimens, pain management strategies, and adjustments to one’s lifestyle.
Check out this related article, Comparing Cost of LLLT to Other Treatments. We compare LLLT to other forms of treatment such as pharmaceutical and surgical treatments.
These strategies strive not only to alleviate symptoms but also to empower individuals to regain their mobility, enhance their quality of life, and mitigate the far-reaching consequences of musculoskeletal impairments.
However, one promising and trailblazing method has emerged in the form of Low-Level Light Therapy (LLLT). In this article, we’ll explore LLLT, a non-invasive, light-powered path to healing, and discover how this therapy is illuminating another way towards effective musculoskeletal condition management.
At the core of LLLT is the laser. Laser itself is an acronym that stands for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. They are unique sources of monochromatic, collimated, and coherent light, emitting precise and singular wavelengths that exhibit remarkable properties when harnessed for therapeutic purposes.
In the context of musculoskeletal health, LLLT moves to the forefront by channeling this extraordinary light into precisely targeted, non-invasive treatments tailored to address musculoskeletal conditions. It’s a gentle yet remarkably potent approach, notable for its distinctiveness among therapies, as it operates without generating heat, sound, or vibration.
Explore More LLLT Applications
Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) exerts its cellular influence through the modulation of connective tissue cells, primarily fibroblasts, keratinocytes, endothelial cells, and lymphocytes, which all play a role in tissue regeneration.²
Utilizing wavelengths ranging from 660 nm to 905 nm, LLLT penetrates skin, soft tissues, and resilient structures, allowing it to deliver a profound impact on various musculoskeletal conditions.
According to a 2015 study², this deep-seated influence provides several key benefits:
The effectiveness in addressing these aspects makes it a valuable addition to the toolbox of healthcare providers, offering patients a safe and cost-effective approach to managing musculoskeletal pain and improving their overall quality of life.
Laser safety standards are of paramount importance in overseeing the wide-ranging applications of laser technology. These standards classify lasers into four general classes, each associated with established exposure limits known as Maximum Permissible Exposures (MPEs)3. Low-power lasers, like those utilized by Erchonia Corporation, belong to Class 2, indicating a minimal risk to human safety³.
LLLT, often informally referred to as “Cold Laser,” distinguishes itself by its unique capability to administer therapeutic laser treatment without generating noticeable heat during the procedure. This non-thermal characteristic is crucial for avoiding potential harm from the heating effects of laser radiation, especially given the human eye’s sensitivity to laser radiation in the retinal hazard region³. The importance of adhering to laser safety standards, such as those outlined in the ANSI Z136 Standards, cannot be overstated4.
Learn More About Laser Classifications
In contrast, High Power Laser Therapy (HPLT) is categorized as Class 4 lasers³. These lasers are characterized by their ability to generate surface warmth during treatment due to their higher power density³. It’s essential to exercise stringent safety precautions and adhere to laser safety guidelines when working with Class 4 lasers like HPLTs, given their potential for significant risks, including eye and skin exposure, tissue damage, and burns4.
The differentiation between LLLT and HPLT is pivotal in defining their therapeutic applications. LLLT, renowned for its non-thermal, low-power attributes, remains the preferred choice for targeted therapeutic benefits without the risks associated with thermal interactions.
The potential multifaceted impact in musculoskeletal physiotherapy is vast, offering a diverse array of applications.
Physiotherapists routinely harness the power of LLLT to effectively manage a wide spectrum of musculoskeletal conditions, to promote healing and alleviate discomfort. Here are some common use cases:
In conclusion, as musculoskeletal conditions continue to cast a shadow on countless lives, the pursuit of effective and minimally invasive pain remedies remains paramount. While traditional therapies offer partial relief, the search for alternatives persists. Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) has emerged as a promising beacon of hope, with the potential to soothe inflammation, alleviate pain, and advance quality of life for individuals battling musculoskeletal issues.
Related Reading: Forecasting the Next 20 Years of Low-Light Laser Therapy in Medicine
References:
Discover the benefits of Low-Level Laser Therapy (3LT®) by Erchonia, a world leader in the field of 3LT® technology. Learn how 3LT® can help reduce the need for prescription opioids for chronic low back pain, the science behind 3LT® and the difference between visible lasers and infrared lasers.
Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody Dr. Chad Woolner here with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells. And on today’s episode of the laser light show, we have a special guest, Dr. Robert Jackson, a board-certified cosmetic surgeon out of Indianapolis. We’re so excited to have him here. So let’s get started.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show.
Dr. Robert Jackson: It’s good to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Dr. Chad Woolner: You bet. So you’re based out of Indianapolis. Is that correct?
Dr. Robert Jackson: That is correct.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Fantastic. How long have you been doing this for?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Actually, Noblesville. It’s just a suburb of Indianapolis. Okay, how long? Surgery probably longer than you guys are old. I’ve been practicing cosmetic surgery for over 35 years.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I would imagine you’ve seen a lot of changes and innovation over the years in terms of tools, techniques, procedures.
Dr. Robert Jackson: We certainly have. Here’s safer equipment, safer procedures. We’ve learned how to do things better to make it a lot better for the patients and make it so they can get back to their lifestyle a little quicker. And my job’s trying to make America Beautiful. And that makes people happy.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. That’s fantastic. So maybe tell us a little bit about how you got hooked up with Erchonia? How did that whole relationship start?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Well, many years ago, at one of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery meetings, I was introduced to Steve Shanks and one of the other Erchonia brothers. And they were talking about this handheld laser. It was a 635-nanometer laser at that time. And we all thought it was kind of snake oil or, you know, stuff that people just go around selling like water to make you have Mickey healthy, you know? Yeah. But anyhow, since I was a kid, I’ve never really been that flexible. And I could never touch my toes. And so anyhow, they came up to our hotel room where another guy was having some problems. And they treated his pain with a low-level laser. And then they, I was telling them about the fact that I said that thing can make me touch my toes. I believe in it. And so Steve ran the thing up and down my back a few times. Sure enough, I’ve been over and I could touch my toes. Well, maybe there is something, maybe there is something to this. But at that time, I was really involved with liposuction. And there was a doctor in Colombia by the name of Rodrigo Neeraj, who had done some work with Erchonia laser. His wife, Clara, was a radiologist, and they had done some pretty high-powered research on using the low-level handheld laser prior to doing liposuction. And then they went back and actually did some high-powered radiology testing and studying what happened at the cellular level. And they saw that the membrane of the cells kind of broke and allowed the fat cells to emulsify. So one of the reps that was working at that time for Erchonia happened to be the brother of another rep that worked for another company that I was very good friends with. And he said, Would you let my brother bring this thing up and try it when you’re doing a liposuction case? And I thought, well, yeah, people are gonna laugh at me, they bring this red light in. And, in fact, one of the doctors actually did. He said, Why don’t you just pull your truck up here and turn them, turn the taillights on and probably do the same thing. So anyway, it was kind of interesting because I had a patient who I had done liposuction on before. And I had done it in places that were not as painful as please, I was going to do it at this point. And so they brought their laser in, and Steve and someone else, and they came in, they treated the patient before I did the liposuction. And when I walked into the recovery room after the procedure, she said to me, ” Dr. Jackson, what did you do differently?” I said, “What do you mean, did I do anything? I didn’t do anything different.” Oh, you must have done something different because it doesn’t hurt like it did before. So with that, we did a research program with about five of us, and we tested the laser with liposuction, and we found that the fat came up a little bit more emulsified, you could actually see a difference in the way the fat was coming out. Nowadays, there are other things that do emulsify fat, such as the Vaser, which is an ultrasonic treatment that will emulsify fat, but we were getting that kind of result with the Zerona. Back. This was probably 20 years ago, maybe. And so with that, I became involved, and we did a number of research projects with them. So anyway, then later, they asked me to use the Zerona and not do liposuction to see what would happen to the fat. And with that, we had a goal, you had to reach at least three reductions of three and a half inches in six weeks, on the hips, thighs, and waist. And we hit that there were almost five of us doing the research project. And those of us who are in the northern parts of the states got really good results. There was a guy in Florida who did not get very good results. And typical of the Erchonia Corporation, they wanted to figure out why that was. So they had scientists working with them at the time. And he said it may possibly be due to dehydration. So because of that, they brought some patients in, gave them IV fluids before they were on a treatment. And they found that the success rate jumped up by 30%. Wow. So it became obvious that if you’re going to do this Zerona and help people lose weight, they need to stay hydrated. And so that now is part of the protocol. So those are just a couple of things that I’ve done with the Zerona people or they are gonna have people in the past.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Just to kind of, just for some context, you mentioned 3.5 inches in certain areas in the body. How does that compare to a typical liposuction treatment?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Well, it’s not as good, of course. I mean, liposuction, you’re taking out a lot more fat, but it’s also invasive. Whereas Zerona, I have had, I have had people who lost up to 15 inches in the same way just with this Zerona. But patients have some certain criteria they have to follow. They have to, as I say, drink a lot of water, we’d like them to take about 60 ounces of water a day just to kind of keep them well hydrated. They cannot drink alcohol because of alcohol. I’m leaving a major amount of alcohol during that time because it interferes with the fat being absorbed and going out through the liver. So we advise him to exercise, and we have a criteria now that we’ve come up with because of that. But is it liposuction? No, but it’s not invasive either. So many people prefer that.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, what’s so cool too here is we learn about this research with these lasers. And, here we are talking to one of the principal researchers in this research. I think that’s super cool to hear because we learned all about this, we got ours around at our clinic a little over a year and a half ago, I think. And we’ve seen amazing results at our clinic with it. And it’s just cool to hear now we’re talking with one of the principal Docs involved and some of the initial research, which is just so cool. What were you gonna say Andrew?
Dr. Andrew Wells: So are you, Dr. Jackson, are you using Zerona and lasers for all of your cosmetic procedures now? Or is it just geared mainly toward your fat loss patients?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Not all of them, but for fat loss patients for sure. And post-op, we use it for pain. We use it a lot. And then I also have the toenail fungus laser, which we use all the time. And we’ve gotten excellent results with that. I don’t know if you’ve talked about that on this show or not. But it’s an absolutely wonderful device. We also did at one point, a study with the combination of the 635-nanometer and a 535-nanometer laser for cellulite. And we got some results that cellulite is a little tougher to treat. But we did get a number of patients who got marked improvement with it. I think I’ve always liked the Erchonia people, though, and I think you mentioned this earlier that they have FDA clearance for all this stuff. And they never put anything on the market unless they get the FDA marketing and clearance. And a lot of companies don’t do that. So I think that’s one of the things that’s always impressed me about the Shanks family and the Erchonia Corporation.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s especially the case with many of if not the vast majority of other laser companies out there is they’re content to just go to market without those things. And yeah, obviously, you know, they’ll do all sorts of other various, you know, approaches in their marketing, but it’s very, very clear that Erchonia has really worked hard to obtain number one, the FDA clearances, but number two continue forward with ongoing research as well. And so that’s something that’s been cool to hear, not only from them but from doctors who have been involved with a lot of that research yourself included.
Dr. Robert Jackson: You said you have this Zerona in your office, what are the lasers that they ever have in your office?
Dr. Chad Woolner: We have the FX 405. The Zerona obviously, and then we just got a couple of months back to the base station, we have to accelerate the GDL and the EB RL. And we have just seen incredible things with all of the lasers, it’s been really cool to the with regarding this Zerona the most we’ve ever seen in one treatment. And again, this was hips, waist, chest, arms and legs. But the most we saw was reduction. My wife was using it on a patient she saw a seven-inch reduction collectively in one treatment. And she thought that was a mistake. So she double-checked her triple-check, quadruple check. And she’s like, that’s accurate. And the patient was just thrilled with it. It was really, really cool to see. So yeah, that was pretty wild.
Dr. Robert Jackson: Yeah, we had some results like that. And it was interesting that that dehydration thing and how we came about finding that out was like I say, one of the doctors who lived in Florida and you know, be work chronically dehydrated in Florida. And so nobody could figure that out. But then Erchonia had his scientists that worked with him at the time. And he said, well, I think it may be just due to dehydration that he’s not getting those results. That’s when they brought the patients in, gave him IV, and then found out that hydration really does help the results. So any of you out there who are using Zerona make sure you stay well hydrated.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s a great point. That’s a really good point.
Dr. Andrew Wells: So, Dr. Jackson, you started off as kind of a skeptic, and I love the joke about bringing in the taillights in the truck to do the same thing. It’s interesting. We work a lot with chiropractors; we also work with a lot of medical doctors and nurses. Chiropractors, for good or for bad, are early adopters of technology like this, and I think Erchonia would agree that chiropractors really saw the value of it a long time ago. Are you seeing that you or your medical colleagues are open to laser therapy? Are they adopting it? Are they seeing what you’re doing? And are they curious? And also,
Dr. Robert Jackson: I think they’re open to adopting it. The people I work with are surgeons, and surgeons are used to having an immediate effect. Every surgeon wants to make a real change. Some are a little more reluctant to try things like Zerona, but it definitely works. We have many members of our organization who were part of the research project, and I’ve met a ton of people through Erchonia’s meetings where they bring in worldwide authorities from all parts of the country.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Are there any particular areas that you want to use lasers for or venturing into other than what you’re currently using?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Adaptation thought? I think, of course, pain is one thing I think. I think you’re working now on neuropathy, which is a horrible problem for many people, especially diabetics and people who’ve had nerve injury and that sort of thing. It’s pretty debilitating. I personally have some neuropathy, probably secondary to my experience in Vietnam. I’ve picked up some major, I think I got affected with Agent Orange over there. And so anyhow, I’m very excited about the fact that Erchonia is now working on a laser to treat neuropathy, because that’s a debilitating thing for a number of patients, especially a lot of our veterans. And that’s one thing I would really like to see them improve.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Have you used the lasers for yourself in your neuropathy?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Not yet, but I’m going to absolutely, I definitely plan to do that.
Dr. Chad Woolner: We’ve used the FX 405 on a number of neuropathy patients and have seen, well, we’re using the FX 405 in conjunction with the GPL. So we’re getting all three wavelengths, we’re getting the 635 nanometer, the 520 nanometer in the 405 nanometer. And so far, what we’ve seen, and granted, it’s been limited. It’s been a handful of patients, but we’ve seen fantastic results with those that we’ve done it with. And we’ve typically stacked it with a variety of therapies, vibration plate therapy, and obviously chiropractic care as part of their treatment, typically some supplementation and dietary changes as well. But yeah, the lasers have been fantastic from what we’ve seen. It’s been really, really good.
Dr. Robert Jackson: And the other thing I’ve been very impressed with is I have the toenail fungus laser. And to date, I don’t think I haven’t had anybody who hasn’t had marked improvement with their toenail fungus with no drugs that affect your liver and that sort of thing. And it’s kind of interesting; you treat them, and you all of a sudden begin to see the base, and they’ll grow out, and there’s no fungus there. It’s, and that was one of the things that I learned about at one of the World Congress meetings of the Erchonia or Erchonia puts on the results they had, and I think it was Ireland. They treated like 500 patients and had like a 97% success rate with a toenail laser. So that’s something we do use in our office.
Dr. Chad Woolner: What percentage of patients would you say that you see struggle with toenail fungus? I’m, I’m done. I mean, I’ve heard of it. We’re obviously very familiar with the lunula laser. But I’m just curious as to the prevalence of the problem.
Dr. Robert Jackson: It’s very prevalent. And it’s both men and women. I’ve had, I’ve treated both toenails and fingernails, sometimes some women, I think sometimes the artificial nails and things like that. Some are either trapped by the fungus there, and anyhow, I’ve had really good success with both toenail and fingernail fungus using the lunula laser. So yeah, it’s very simple. People can put their foot underneath there for 12 minutes. And, you know, come back a week later and do the same thing for four weeks, and then I have them come back, you know, once a year or something and treat it; that seems to work very well.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So you’re talking typically you see results in just four treatments?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Yeah, I usually do four treatments and then like a week or month or so later a toenail grows up. The base of the toenail will be clear, leaving a clear nail behind it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, I wouldn’t think, but I would imagine that that can create a certain level of self-consciousness for people, especially if they’re, I would imagine, you know, they’re seeing a cosmetic surgeon. I’m guessing that that may not be the primary reason they’re there. But that may be something that they bring up to you in consults. Is that kind of how it typically works?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Somehow or other, I’m not quite sure how they found me. We do know that. They just, they call it, I want to know about the Lunula, Lunula laser, and how it works. And they come in, and I talk to him, and I never really make guarantees, but I tell him this is the results that we’ve seen and that they have seen in Great Britain and other places. So a very simple treatment and no downtime. My, my, I look at them; my girls actually put them underneath the laser and turn the laser on for me and turn it off when it turns off, but the other foot and treat it and turn it off.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Pretty simple.
Dr. Robert Jackson: It’s pretty simple.
Dr. Chad Woolner: What are some contemporary kinds of conventional treatment? I mean, you mentioned medication for toenail fungus. Are there other conventional treatments? And what are some of the downsides and risks?
Dr. Robert Jackson: Oh, well, especially the medication that they use has had something that a lot of people use and have had some significant liver problems because of it. Other things, people use across-the-counter medications and all and things like that just don’t seem to be working. Most of my patients that come to me have tried almost everything and nothing worked. And so they come and try this. Or they’ve tried, you know, we do recommend that they because the fungus is probably in their shoes and the socks if they they change those and try to keep the fungus away and then once they get the thing cured and get rid of all those issues and buy new shoes, and
Dr. Chad Woolner: Any sort of dietary recommendations that are made in conjunction with it that you’ve seen or know of?
Dr. Robert Jackson: None that I really know of; it’s a fungus most of the time it’s either and a lot of people catch it in swimming pools or places like that. But it’s very bothersome to The Beatles, people who have it you know some of them think they pick it up and nail salons you know. But I don’t really know; I know when they come to me they’ve got a toenail fungus and we treat it for
Dr. Chad Woolner: You just get rid of it.
Dr. Andrew Wells: This is a problem I have; it’s a recurring issue. I’ve had bilateral foot issues, and so my toes are kind of locked in a flexed position, and so my nail will rub up against the bottom of my shoes. I’m actually really prone to toenail fungus. And my podiatrist gave me a little. It’s like a topical you put on, and I think it’s made from horse urine. Maybe incorrect on that. But I don’t know if it’s the medication that causes hopefully not liver damage, but I’ll use that periodically, but it’s a pain in the butt because I have to put it on every day. And it does help, but it comes back; it’s just that remembering to put it on every day is not the easiest thing to do. And so to be able to go into an office four times and then have it cleared up is what I would do.
Dr. Robert Jackson: Sure. Well, you can avoid horse urine. My daughter used to ride horses all the time, and I got really bad Achilles tendinitis one time when I was walking across the horse show grounds. The veterinary nurse asked, “What’s wrong with you?” and I said, “I got Achilles tendinitis.” He said, “I can fix that for you.” And he put some DMSO stuff on it, which, oh, is it menthol put it on? I had a garlic taste in my mouth. But it did help my Achilles tendinitis. So I don’t always poopoo all these things that people think are snake oil because some of them really work. For instance, if I get cramps, I drink pickle juice because in 15 minutes, it’s gone. And I know a number of athletes do that too. But yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. Go ahead.
Dr. Robert Jackson: Well, one of the things I was gonna say, though, is that, you know, the Shanks family is almost like my family. I just love them. They’re really good people. They try to do good things for people, and they take good care of their employees. They’re just good people to work with. So I think any company using their products and things, you want the people who stand behind the products to be reputable. And I can honestly say with my association with the Shanks over the years that they’re extremely reputable people.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, we appreciate you saying that. Andrew and I, you know, we’ve been working with them pretty closely for a while now. And it’s been really neat for us to be able to see that same thing, number one firsthand. But also, literally, every single doc that we talked to who works directly with the folks at Erchonia, the entire team from top to bottom is just phenomenal. You can very much tell that they are a very purpose-driven organization, that they have a very clear vision of what they’re doing and what they want to do. That makes for a very meaningful and very enjoyable time with us in terms of this show. It’s really fun to get to talk to everybody. I mean, we just feel super lucky to be a part of this. So it’s a lot of fun. I’m curious, Dr. Jackson, are you currently involved in ongoing research with them? Or is there anything in the future that you see happening in terms of research?
Dr. Robert Jackson: So at the present time? No. I think my fellows in the past we have presented, I think along with the research thing we’ve done. I think we’ve presented like five papers with them on various things. I know the first was using the low-level laser with liposuction, and then using those Zerona, or the first, we can use it and we’re gonna. We’re just using the handheld laser and just seeing what the fat reduction or the waist reduction is. And then we got those Zerona and did another research project with them using those Zerona. And then we use the combination of the Erwin. We use the 635-nanometer laser that they have, and we use that and did the cellulite program with that. And we presented, as a matter of fact, one of my fellows, a number of years ago, one of the fellows, paper award at the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery, which was one of the research projects we did. So it’s been a good relationship, and they’ve become friends. We’ve gone to dinner together a lot. And they’ve come up and visited me, and I visited them. But yeah, if they’re ever interested, if they come up with something that they want me to do, I’m sure they’ll contact me. But, you know, like through them, I got to meet Jared Rodrigo Neeraj and Clara, who are just wonderful people that did this first research project. And then there was a gal from Hong Kong who also did the same thing. And, and actually, you know, proved that it does work. So, yeah, it’s been a nice, nice relationship. But they’re just good people. And the company is a reliable organization. People can trust it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: For sure.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Well, well, Dr. Jackson, we sure appreciate you being on the podcast and sharing your experiences with the lasers. And I’m really happy that you chose to use lasers versus your truck tail lights. Much better outcomes. And yeah, I just want to echo what you guys are saying about Erchonia and the team. It’s a fantastic thing. And I would just encourage Docs listening to this. If you’re curious about lasers or interested in it, just come to one of the events. Erchonia puts on some amazing lectures and events taught by some of the brightest doctors we’ve ever met. And also their annual business meeting. I don’t think they’re having the business meeting this year. But it’s typically in November, where you get to go and see some of the top Docs using lasers. And you really get to share in that experience of getting better patient outcomes, which is what this is all about. So yeah, can’t thank you enough, Dr. Jackson, for taking time out of your day to share how you’ve been using your Erchonia lasers in your practice. And yeah, we hope you’re doing this for another 35 years.
Dr. Robert Jackson: I do too. I’m not sure that’s gonna work. But I hope you’re right.
Dr. Andrew Wells: But as a little side note, we just interviewed a couple of episodes ago, Dr. Dan Murphy. He’s 68 years old now and has been lasering his brain for the last 20 years daily. And he’s attributed that to keeping his mind sharp and keeping his body in good shape. So he can continue to do what he loves to do, educate Docs. But yeah, thank you so much, Chad. Any final words?
Dr. Chad Woolner: No, again, yeah, I would just echo what Dr. Wells said, Dr. Jackson, we sure appreciate you. We appreciate the great work that you’re doing that you have done. That research that you were involved in truly is groundbreaking. It really is. And it’s incredible now to see the lives that have been impacted as a direct result of what you’ve been involved with. So we really appreciate it. And we hope those listening and or watching have found immense value from this. We would just encourage you to share this with others. And we will talk to you all on the next episode. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about our Erchonia lasers, just head on over to erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources, including research, news, and links to upcoming live events, as well as our Erchonia community where you can access for free additional resources, including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening, and we will catch you on the next episode.
Dr Robert Jackson: With over three decades of experience, Dr. Jackson has been setting an unparalleled standard of care in the realm of cosmetic surgery. Awarded the prestigious International Golden Scalpel, presented by the American Board of Cosmetic Surgery, Dr. Jackson has significantly contributed to the advancement of liposuction techniques, serving as the Chairman of the Ultrasonic Assisted Liposuction Task Force for the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery.
Dr. Robert Jackson shares his active contributions to the world of cosmetic surgery, his dedication to patient satisfaction, and his pioneering spirit in the realm of minimally invasive techniques and new technologies make this episode an invaluable resource for all interested in the science and art of low-level laser therapy and its applications.
Dr. Robert Jackson is an esteemed cosmetic surgeon with over 30 years of experience with an expertise in breast augmentation and reduction. Introduced to Low Level Laser Therapy by his colleague Steve Shanks, Dr. Robert Jackson has been a guiding light for young physicians and colleagues, imparting his wealth of knowledge and expertise.
“I think I’ve always liked the Erchonia people, though, and I think you mentioned this earlier that they have FDA clearance for all this stuff. And they never put anything on the market unless they get the FDA marketing and clearance. And a lot of companies don’t do that.” -Dr. Robert Jackson
“I’m very excited about the fact that Erchonia is now working on a laser to treat neuropathy, because that’s a debilitating thing for a number of patients, especially a lot of our veterans. And that’s one thing I would really like to see them improve.” -Dr. Robert Jackson
“Most of my patients that come to me have tried almost everything and nothing worked. And so they come and try this.” -Dr. Robert Jackson
“Erchonia puts on the results they had… They treated like 500 patients and had like a 97% success rate with a toenail laser.” -Dr. Robert Jackson
Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody? Dr. Chad Woolner here with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells, and on today’s episode of the laser light show, we have a treat for you. We have Dr. Mike Powell. He’s here to share some really amazing stories. This is going to be a miracle Monday episode, so we’re excited to chat with him. So let’s get to it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music from the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica. They were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is at helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems, as the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia, has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the laser light show. All right, everybody. Welcome to the show. And a special welcome to Dr. Mike Powell all the way from Medford, Oregon. How are you, Mike?
Dr. Mike Powell: I’m doing great. How are you guys doing?
Dr. Chad Woolner: We’re doing awesome. I literally just got back yesterday from a trip out to Salem Monmouth area in Oregon. We went to the Oregon coast. And so the weather was perfect and beautiful. And so just a little bit north of where you’re out there in Medford but I’m guessing the weather down there, as I can see behind you, is absolutely beautiful. So love that area. Beautiful and green. So awesome. Well, thanks for being on the show with us. We’re excited to chat with us. First question right out the gates for you. Tell us for those who are listening and or watching. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Introduce yourself. Tell us your story.
Dr. Mike Powell: Awesome. Well, my name is Mike Powell. I’ve been in practice, wow, almost 30 years. I ended up going to chiropractic school. Like probably 80% of the people that I went to school with because I was one of the people who experienced like a chiropractic miracle. When you go to school, eight out of 10 people probably are there because a chiropractor had helped them when nobody else could. Maybe 10% are there because it’s in the family there. We have a lot of like multigenerational people. And then there’s another 10% that show up because they didn’t have any place else to go. So I ended up going to chiropractic school through a series of events when I was 20 years old. I was involved in an industrial accident; I was under a truck scale in Salem, Oregon. And my father, my grandfather built truck scales. It’s a family business. I had just finished college, I was headed to medical school, I was under a truck scale, when a jack slipped and it came down 20,000 pounds, crushed my right hand and put a bolt through the middle of it. And I had a closed amputation of the left hand which in essence means that amputated it but it stayed intact with regards to the skin was rushed to the emergency room and underwent a year and a half of surgery after surgery after surgery, they assured me that I was lucky to have kept my hands but after a year and a half a physical therapy and therapy, occupational therapy, I ended up with about 25% use of both hands, I could almost make a fist. I could write with a pen, if you put a big piece of foam on it. I could even eat with a fork. If you put a big piece of foam I was not able to dress myself or care for myself in any meaningful way. And my mother tricked me into saying her chiropractor and the funniest blade Basel, she came to me one day and I’m laying in bed and literally just absolutely miserable. If you think about when you’re 20 years old, you’re ready to be a grown up. That’s the first time you get to step out if I finished college, I’m ready to get on with my life. And now I’m living with my parents and having to say things like, Could you please button my shirt? And that’s the least embarrassing thing that happened to me. It was a horrific, horrific experience. And one of the things that it left me with is I have a heart for people who are being cared for. I really understand how miserable it can be for someone being cared for and how often they lash out at the people who are caring for them. And she came to me and said, Would you do me a favor and come to my chiropractor with me? And I said nope. In essence, you’re always down on what you’re not up on. And I knew I did not want to go see her chiropractor. She said no, no, no, no, not for you. I would never do that to you. I’d like you to come and tell me if he’s lying to me. Oh, like, of course mom. I’m more than happy to do that. So we showed up at the chiropractor’s office and this guy to this day, actually denies that he knew I was coming. But he was able to spend 45 minutes answering stupid questions from a dumb kid and sent me home with literature. He sent me home with luck. And in those days that hold I am, there was no such thing as the internet. I had to go up to OHSU on the Hill in Portland, which is the medical school and look it up on PubMed. Right? They had a computer close computer system with all the literature. And so I showed it back up the next week. And I said, You know what, not only does this literature support what you do, it’s all medical literature. And he said, Of course, I said, Well, why wouldn’t you get the chiropractic literature said, would you believe it? Very good point. Long story short, I started undergoing care for a neck problem that I had developed laying in bed for a year and a half. And within six weeks, I was able to walk into the orthopedist and make a fist and he’s like, Oh, my God, this is amazing. And therapy, and I said, No. Physical therapy, occupational therapy. Nope. I went to see my chiropractor. And he said, Who’s your chiropractor, and I told him, Steve to shock. And he said, That’s my chiropractor. I had to look this man in the face like, Are you absolutely joking? Me goes, Mike, I’ve been so focused on your hands. I didn’t even think to look upstairs, right? Those nerve roots had been under duress for a year and a half, of course, we’re going to have problems. And so one thing led to another and I ended up going to chiropractic school. And the man who sent me to chiropractic school still practices in Woodburn, Oregon. And he gave Dan Murphy his first job straight out of chiropractic school. So we have this lineage, right? Full Circle. Yes. So Dan, and I go back, way back, although it predated when I was there for quite a bit, but absolutely, because as you know, Dan is one of our keynote speakers and Erchonia and remarkable, remarkable walking, Encyclopedia of knowledge, right. I will warn you, you’re not going to be able to read anything after you listen to Dan talk, but
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s hilarious. Wow, I would say you know, the beginning Well, I should say now and the end of your story. sounds eerily reminiscent of a Marvel superhero story. You know, your origin story, you know, industrial accident. And now, through this miracle process. I’m like, boy, this is I’ve heard this before, you know, it’s a mix of like, Dr. Strange meets something else. Amazing.
Dr. Mike Powell: Well, I’ve been called worse. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So we’ll call you superhero, Dr. Mike. So tell us how you connected with Erchonia lasers. How you started using those. And then tell us a little bit about your kind of personal miracle story with Erchonia lasers.
Dr. Mike Powell: Absolutely. I was introduced to Erchonia. Boy, I think I purchased my first laser in 2016. Diane was my rep back then. And it came about in a weird way. My business partner in Eugene ended up with a neuroma on his foot. It was a non-operable neuroma. And it got to the point where he was missing work, and I was covering for him, and we were bringing in locum tenens. And we were finding ways to work around, and he walked into the office of a podiatrist. He had seen three different podiatrists, and this pediatric surgeon said, “You know what, I got this weird new thing. Would you mind if I try it on you?” And Greg’s like, “Absolutely.” So we took him in the back room, and he shot him with a laser. He walked back into the office, and he’s walked into my office and said, “We got to get one of these. Well, are you feeling good?” He said, “I’m feeling fabulous one treatment, I am feeling absolutely fabulous. I’ve had injections, I’ve had any number of procedures. And I said, “Well, what do they cost?” And he told me and I said, “If he gets you back to work, I’m willing to bite that bullet. It’s not a problem.” So we purchased our first laser. And lo and behold, within, I’d say six, eight months, I was involved in another accident. So I’m not accident-prone no matter what you guys. When I do it, I tend to do it right. I ended up with first, second, and third-degree burns across the entire right side of my face and head and my right arm from bout just above the elbow, all the way down onto the gloved hand. And that wasn’t an accelerant burned. But it didn’t come from a flash. And so it literally melted the skin. I drove myself to the urgent care and walked in. And because as you know, you know, when you have third-degree burns, there’s still pain. I felt fabulous. I looked, looked I had charcoal on my face and the skin was melting off. But I walked in and said, “Excuse me, do you treat burns?” and the lady says, “Absolutely.” Oh no, not though. You’re going to the hospital and calling you an ambulance. I said, “No, no, no. I can drag myself,” and she says, “No, you can’t.” So I excused myself quickly and went to the emergency room where I ended up with a remarkable nurse that had worked in the burn unit up at OHSU in the hospital in Portland, and a relatively green ER physician that was freaked out by this level of burns. Because, you know, when you get this level of burns and this size of burns, oftentimes, you end up with a lot of metabolic problems, problems that go along with it, electrolytes start to leak out of the cells, and it can become very dangerous. And he assured me I needed a ride to Portland to the burn unit. And after a prolonged conversation, he started talking about skin grafts from my face. And I don’t consider myself a vain person. But when I asked him where the skin grafts would come from, he said, “Well probably come from your buttocks.” Oh, okay. You’re gonna so my butt to my face? Well, it’s not quite that course. But I got no, no, no, I got enough problems. I don’t need to have my butt on my face. You know what my children are going to call me. Right? We went back and forth. I literally had to check myself out of the hospital against medical advice with the blessings of the nurse, by the way. And I explained to them that I have a laser, and I’m going to use it. And the doctor at the time said, “You know what, lasers are not FDA approved for burns. And at the time, they weren’t using them a whole lot. And they said, “I’m not using on you I’m using on me.” Well, I can’t let you do this. I said, “No, you this is my job to I, I get to tell you what I’m going to do with my body. Does that make sense?” and he goes, “Okay, fine.” He wasn’t real happy. I went home. That was a Wednesday, I was able to get my hands on the laser on a Friday. And I treated twice a day with the laser debriding all of the tissues, but also treating with the laser on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I returned to work on Monday with wrapped arm underneath. But underneath the sleeve, but the patients were going wow, did you get a sunburn just on the right side of your face. And I’ll have to if I can pick up the pictures. I’ll share them with you. I went from looking at my head swelled up the size of a pumpkin. And it looked again supervillain style, right, the whole right side of my face literally melted away and was charcoal. And on Monday, it looked like a sunburn. And I And I’m telling the patients look this is an accurate representation of the healing power of this photobiomodulation, right? We’re upregulating cells on a cellular level and taking the mitochondria and jacking up the respiration rate by 400%. It is one of the most amazing things to watch a burn heal. Because it’s so graphic. It’s so visceral, it’s so raw and people are like wow. So I get this conversation with patients. So you do you still treat burns, I don’t know. They’re yucky things and again, the metabolic parts they need to be there but most burn units now carry lasers. And so it works out really really well. Totally sold on it. I now utilize Erchonia lasers; we have an FX laser, we had the Zerona. And Erchonia is head and shoulders above any other laser I’ve ever owned. In fact, the only lasers my clinic owns now because of its true laser diode. And having experienced a couple of other lasers. I was sitting at a at a cocktail party with Steve Shanks. And I asked him can you in a very succinct way, describe why Erchonia laser is so vastly superior said Mike, do you like steaks? And I said I love steak. So I’ve spent my entire adult life learning how to make a steak. He said, “What’s your favorite way to make a steak it said, “I like to rub it with a dry rub, bring it to room temperature Cold Smoke it and then reverse sear it and then put a pad of butter on it.” He goes “wow, that sounds really really good. But could you could you cook one with a candle?” It said, “Given enough time, but it’d be messy and it wouldn’t work real well.” He said, “Okay, how about a thermonuclear blast?” But yeah, but it would be horrible he goes, “there is a sweet spot. To that steak, there’s a proper way to prepare that steak or clinical lasers, or that sweet spot. It is the exact right amount of power at the right frequency at the right amplitude. To get the job done correctly. There are more powerful lasers and they’re less powerful lasers. There are different derivations. But we’ve found that sweet spot and when you have all the FDA approvals that Erchonia has every other laser company saying yes to that’s very, very telling. I still have patients who drive from Eugene to Medford, which is two hours two hours and change. Because there were no recording lasers in Medford. so remarkable, remarkable technology.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s an amazing story. How incredible to?
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, you know, I think we’re a little bit on. This is a biased remark here but I don’t hear anybody saying the same kind of stories with other types of lasers. Now we Good to hear it thankfully because we get to host this really cool podcast and you know, we hang around Erchonia Doc’s but I don’t hear like, I don’t hear these kind of miracle stories. I don’t hear these kinds of, you know, insane, insanely cool testimonies from other laser companies.
Dr. Mike Powell: I just don’t. I think that’s I wonder why that is.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, exactly. That’s exactly right. You know, thankfully, this is on video because I have I have a really somewhat similar story, Mike, I had a different type of burn, I had frostbite on my toes. And so I actually lost like, a good thing. It’s on video because I can actually show my, my shirt here. It’s on both sides as well. And this during this happened during chiropractic school, I was in my second second trimester at Palmer. And I, you know, I spent a lot of time in the burn unit at the hospital because they treat frostbite, they treat cold burns the same way they treat heat burns. And so once I, you know, had my toes amputated, there was a whole skin graft thing. By the way, funny side story, I got a skin graft, and they use the skin graft, not so much to replace the skin but as a bandage it was, you know, they use skin as like a natural bandage. And so after they they put the skin graft on me. They took the bandages and dressings off my feet, and I looked at my feet, and they are black. I like what did you guys do? Like, did it not? Like my toes or my toes are black and like something’s wrong. And the dog kind of laughed at me and like patted me on the shoulder, he goes, “Well, the donor that we use was a cadaver.” And the cadaver happened to be African American. I’m like. But that was my that was my story. But yeah, and you know, I went back to once I was out of the hospital, it was a really, really slow healing process it took it took about six months before I could walk without severe pain. So I was in a wheelchair and crutches and the whole deal and had one of the interns at the Palmer clinic. She’s like, you know, we have we have lasers in the clinic that might that might work for you. And like, I’ll try anything. And so we were using a non non Erchonia laser, this clinic had like four or five of these cold lasers that were sitting there in the entrance. He’s like, I’ve never used these before. And I’m like, Well, it can’t hurt. And she’s like, I have no idea. Like, what I’m doing. I’m just going to turn it on. I’m gonna wave it over your toes, and we’ll see what happens. I’m like, great. And so it was, you know, the blind leading the blind, so to speak. But, you know, we figured it wasn’t going to hurt anything. But I remember I remember leaving, you know, we had maybe like four or five laser sessions. And I don’t really remember any kind of remarkable transformation. I kind of like, oh, that didn’t work so well, but it didn’t hurt. And I have to imagine if I had the right laser with the right frequency and the right you know, the right dose that would have actually made a pretty, pretty big difference because it just man, that was a really excruciating time to be in a lot of pain waiting for these wounds to heal. And I wish I wish I had access to these. And when I was a chiropractic student, I no doubt I would have bought one when I was a chiropractic student was that as poor as I was, as a student, I probably would have gotten one but that was that. I should I should I should tell the Erchonia folks, that was a missed opportunity. We need to get them
Dr. Mike Powell: Yes, quickly. I’m sure they haven’t. That’s right. That’s right. That’s awesome. One of the things Dan Murphy said that one time to me is Mike, you’re gonna buy this laser for you, and you’re going to use it on your patients. And there’s a lot of truth to that, right. I mean, it’s, we utilize it with my wife, Tara medial collateral ligament over the weekend, and she has to go up and stay with my grandchildren and my daughter has steroids and she was freaked out. You know what we did some myofascial work, we did some K-taping but the laser on it. She leaves today and she’s I’m having to talk her out of carrying things out to the park. Like, take it easy. Take it easy, but yeah, she’s like, Yeah, I’m feeling fine. This this is awesome.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So that’s amazing.
Dr. Andrew Wells: We just finished up an interview with Dr. Dan Murphy. Right before we recorded your episode. So we just just a couple hours ago and every time we have him on the on the show where I talk to him I go to one of his events. I’m like I need more lasers. I need more lasers.
Dr. Mike Powell: Right. So I had a fun experience about when I moved down to Medford. They I had no control over my staff. They that I moved to a butter practice moved in with my very best friend in the world. And they went out and found me a CA and never met her but you know what? She seemed competent. She seemed good at her job. She was a massage therapist for like 10 years down in Phoenix, Arizona, before she came to work with me. And it took her about two years to sit me down and say Dr. Powell When you worked with University of Oregon football team after a heavy practice, or after a big game, what would these young men do? And I said, I don’t understand your question. She said, What would they do is they just jump in their car and go home? And I said, Oh, no, they come see me or they’d see a trainer or go sit nice bath, or, you know, get on the massage table. And she goes ice to facilitate functional recovery. I said, Yeah. She said, can I ask you a personal question? He’s the chair. And she said, um, what do you do after a heavy workout? I get in my car and go home. You’re not 20 years old. And you’re training to three days a week, you train for three and a half hours, whole body training, you work with some of the most gifted healers I’ve ever seen. You have more lasers in this clinic than I can find from San Diego to Portland. And you’re not using any of it. And I went, Yeah, yeah. See doctors make poor patients and especially doctors who have been cared for. She just looked at me and she goes, Can you please let me help you. And it was the beginning of something remarkable. This young woman is so smart. And she has taught me so much. He’s a natural, intuitive healer. Good example is, I worked with Ted Carrick for a while in functional neurology. And over the years, I’ve taken a handful of young doctors to talk to Dr. Carrick and you know, I’m talking about there’s six people on the planet that should sit with Pitcairn, right? I mean, the guy is just so smart. So I’ve only taken my best of my brightest up there. And they’ll sit them down, and within 15 minutes, you watch their brains begin to melt. They just look at me, like, Ah, I can’t keep up. Haley was at a conference with me, goodness, earlier this year, and Ted was there. And Dr. Carrick started talking. And I glanced down after the first hour and looking at her notes, and she’s got three pages of notes. And the most impressive thing is next to the note, she’s got patients’ names with lines to them. And I’m just like, she’s keeping up and she’s not only keeping up, she is applying it in a clinical way. And so, you know, it’s a deep question. She goes, I have 100 questions, but let me digest this. So two days later, she writes me. And she says, okay, was able to find that same talk that he did delivered last year, and I think in Ontario, after listening to all three hours, and again, I have formulated some good questions for you. I’m like, wow, like, just absolutely remarkable. And she has this graph. And so it’s funny, I taught her some secret sipping occipital technique. And being elite, she went home and looked up three podcasts and two citations and read the small book and came back with questions. And by the end of that week, I realized we’re no longer talking about sacred occipital technique, we’re talking about a myofascial release technique that doesn’t actually exist yet. And so we started working with it. And as we worked with it, we would start to bring it to patients and got absolutely remarkable results. When I put the violet laser in and five nanometers. Basha loves the violet laser, it absorbs it like a sponge, like a sponge that really needs it. So we’ll put that for under five nanometer laser and get in and do the myofascial release techniques, and have seen well, as we were discussing, I’ve heard the words life changing in my chronic patients more in the last year and a half than I have in the previous, like 29 years of practice, it is absolutely life changing. And on top of that, it’s really funny, she started going out and finding body workers. So my last patient on Wednesday will oftentimes be a massage therapist or a role for I have an equine osteopath will see these people who have language to wrap around their experience. And we will try the applications that we’ve developed with them. And they’re able to, they’re able to give us feedback, like, Oh, I love that, have you tried this or that or that. And then we refine it. And then we take it to patients. And it’s just been literally the most fun I’ve ever had in practice. It’s just just to watch people they come in. And the only downside is, people will look me in the eye and say, why haven’t we been doing this the whole time? They said, well, because we just made it up. Sorry, we should have been doing it all sides. But I went down and worked with the Jones Institute down in Carlsbad, that strain counter strain work that they’ve done. And they give me a little time to, you know, teach my technique. And I said, if I’m coming, I want to learn your technique. So got to apply that. The interesting thing about being doctors again, doctors make the worst patients Haley walks into my office the day before I leave, she’s holding a hand grenade. She pulls the pin and drops it in my lap and so this is really brave of you to go down and get worked on and I’m like oh no, they’re gonna touch me. She goes You were so quiet so the rest of the day Yeah, I was really laboring but absolutely remarkable thing when we can bring the laser technology to a vital organ like fashion. I mean, this stuff. It’s It’s remarkable to watch it it remodels in real time and in fractal environment, it changes based on what our needs are theologically, instantaneously, but it also stores trauma so remarkably well. So we get these people who have old trauma, and it’s stored in the fascia. And we’ll be working on the mineral bubble up into the amygdala. And all of a sudden they go, I remember what happened. And they start recounting a story from their childhood. And Haley and I are looking at each other. We’re going to feel that and she’s one. Yeah, it’s not that you can literally feel it leaving the body as they process, this old trauma. But you add that to, you know, what the laser and manipulative therapy, it’s just absolutely life changing for people. The other thing I love about my laser is this technology continues to unfold. It continues to move forward, we discussed earlier, when it’s the last time somebody showed up at a conference and said, We have a new way to use your interferential or men this new way to use your ultrasound, let’s program it in a different way. And we have this groundbreaking new tech, no, the laser is the only thing that’s not only been researched more than any other modality in the history of modalities, but continues to unfold. We’re just scratching the surface with what we understand it can do. And I can program it in real time into different modalities. And I have at my back some of the most bright people on the face of the planet who speak and represent Erchonia. I mean, wouldn’t you get Dan Murphy? Oh, my goodness, Rob Silverman. The guy is just so wicked smart. He’s so remarkable. Jerome, we have gear we have below. So who am I missing? Trevor, all of Trevor Barry. Trevor Barry and I have shared patient so he has a neural patient down in Phoenix and they move up here they’ll send them here. Remarkable was we just got one week, I’m just gonna put in a quick plug. If you have never been to Erchonia, like a business meeting down in Orlando, go, go go. Not only are you going to meet like minded practitioners, and you’re going to get to hang out with some of the coolest people. Some of my best friends work at Erchonia. I mean, David and Joe and I get together and it’s just nothing but fun. We have so much fun. We have people coming over from Europe. But the most important thing is that the caliber of speakers you’re going to hear in a small venue. These men are the people that state associations go out, and they contract with to keep your button the seat for the entire weekend because you’re gonna sit around and you’re gonna wait to hear Dan Murphy, or rob Silverman. And you have these people in a small venue where it’s no longer just them standing up and talking. It can literally be a conversation. I mean, questions and answers with these kinds of minds. And now you know, these people are phone call away for me. And this is the most remarkable thing. They love doing it. They are so passionate about this technology, that you know what I had some post COVID some long haul patients. I call Dr. Silverman up. He says I got five minutes, Mike. That’s my best Silberman. Sorry, if I go, okay. And I give them the 411 on these long haul patients. 25 minutes later, we’ve developed a new protocol we’re talking about, okay, how do we address the phrenic nerve See, 2345, right, we run FX transthoracic leak, get things moving in the lungs, put them on a whole body vibration unit, put my ERL overlying the thoracic duct and literally move that crap out through the lymph system. And it was so remarkably helpful for these people. We’re getting people off oxygen, we’re getting people. And it was so well done, that my practice literally had to open up more hours just to facilitate these people who needed our help. No other technology on the planet. It’s like this. No other company has this caliber of people. And it’ll be the very best investment you’ll ever make. Now I’m just talking to my colleagues out there.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s apparent your passion and excitement for it. And that’s contagious. Are you gonna say Andrew?
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, I don’t think anyone has ever put such a fine point on that. The two things that you said number one, good technology and good companies attract good people. And I echo what you’re saying I’ve never found a group quite like this. Very, very well-rounded practitioners doing amazing things. And to your other point, I’m surprised no one has really brought this up before, but you’re absolutely right. Lasers continue to, the use of lasers continues to evolve and to change, and we’re always discovering new things. And I You’re right, I can’t think of any other modality that’s like that at all. It’s amazing.
Dr. Mike Powell: For sure. And we’re on the forefront, right where you and I get to be the pioneers and the people and to work with the company who’s so dedicated to my profession. And you know what, now they’re branching out and they’re moving into more of the medical model, but they’re so dedicated to chiropractors because that’s where they built their teeth as it worked. And so just remarkable, remarkable people Whoa, yeah,
Dr. Chad Woolner: I can’t say enough good things about not only the product, but the people within the company Erchonia is an amazing, amazing group. And that’s the thing we both Andrew and myself, we, we frequently have conversations behind closed doors about how it should give practitioners a tremendous amount of peace of mind and confidence. All you got to do is just look at the caliber of practitioners that have been attracted into that circle. It’s truly like I say all the time, we literally get to talk with the smartest doctors in the world through this show. And so we’re super lucky to be able to do that. We’re lucky to be able to chat with you, Dr. Powell, we appreciate you taking time out of your schedule today to be with us to share your story. What an incredible, you know, we’re going to call this episode not just a miracle, singular, but miracles. Calling miracles Monday, but But yeah, thank you so much for being here with us and sharing a bit more about your story. And we’ll make sure that if there’s a way for practitioners and or patients alike to get a hold, you will make sure we have a link in the show notes. For people to learn a little bit about a little bit more about what you’re doing. It’s really, really cool to hear some of the areas in which you’re kind of expanding not only with lasers, but some of the myofascial work that you’re doing. It’s amazing. So awesome. So, Andrew, any final thoughts?
Dr. Andrew Wells: Just want to say thanks, Dr. Mike, for having you on. This isn’t this is an amazing episode. Thanks for sharing your stories. And I can see why Joseph wanted you to be on this podcast a long time ago. You’re, you’re an awesome guest. We need to have you on again.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolutely!
Dr. Mike Powell: Absolutely anytime. And I appreciate you guys making some allowances this took moving heaven and earth to happen. I appreciate all you guys do that you’re doing a remarkable job getting the word out and you guys have a really, really awesome Joe Rogan style. What can I say?
Dr. Chad Woolner: Well, we appreciate it. Thank you so much. And for practitioners and patients alike. If you found this episode valuable, share it with others, we really appreciate that. That’s how this information gets into the hands of, of the public who desperately need these tools in this technology. And so we’re asking you to just share the episode. And yeah, we appreciate the great work that Doc’s like Dr. Mike Powell are doing and helping to serve more patients. And so we look forward to sharing more with you guys on the next episode. Have an amazing rest of your day. And we’ll talk to you later. Thanks, Dr. Powell. Thanks for listening to the laser light show, be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers just head on over to or codea.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as Erchonia E-community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.
On today’s Miracle Monday episode of “The Laser Light Show” podcast as we welcome an esteemed practitioner and educator in the realm of chiropractic care, Dr. Mike Powell. With a career spanning over two decades, Dr. Powell’s journey has been marked by dedication to patient well-being, innovation, and the pursuit of maximizing human potential.
Having begun his practice journey in 1995 in Eugene, Oregon, Dr. Powell’s commitment to advancing healthcare led him to join forces with his esteemed colleague, Dr. Warren, in the Rogue Valley in 2018. His professional trajectory has been nothing short of remarkable.
Dr. Powell’s impact extends beyond his clinics. He spent several seasons collaborating with the University of Oregon athletic department and established a hospital-based practice at McKenzie Willamette Hospital in Springfield, Oregon. His multidisciplinary clinics stand as a testament to his vision of merging the best of complementary and alternative medicine with western practices.
As a sought-after speaker and expert in functional medicine, Dr. Powell has graced lectures and discussions across the United States. His expertise in treating and training athletes, from local Pop Warner leagues to the NFL and Olympic contenders, underscores his profound influence in the realm of sports medicine.
With a passion for uncovering the root causes of health concerns, Dr. Powell’s patient-centric approach focuses on holistic well-being. His belief in the power of a positive mental attitude mirrors his commitment to fostering his patients’ healing journeys.
“And by the end of that week, I realized we’re no longer talking about sacred occipital technique, we’re talking about a myofascial release technique that doesn’t actually exist yet. And so we started working with it. And as we worked with it, we would start to bring it to patients and got absolutely remarkable results.” -Dr. Mike Powell
“They love doing it. They are so passionate about this technology.” -Dr. Mike Powell
Dr. Chad Woolner: Hey everybody, Dr. Chad Woolner here with my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells. And on today’s episode of the laser light show, we have with us our good friend and special guest, Dr. Dan Murphy. We’re so excited to have him back with us. So let’s get to it.
Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music from the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica. They were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner, along with my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the laser light show. All right. Welcome to the show, everybody. We’re super excited to have Dr. Dan Murphy with us. Dr. Dan Murphy. Welcome to the show again. How are you?
Dr. Dan Murphy: Hey, I’m good. And thanks for having me on again, guys.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Awesome. What’s new in your world? How have things been? I know you just had a seminar with Dr. Kristin Hieshetter. Where was that at?
Dr. Dan Murphy:Kristen and I, we work in Birmingham, Alabama.
Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, down in the south. Nice and hot during the summer.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Yeah. Has she been on your show?
Dr. Chad Woolner: She has. Yeah.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Yeah. She did a really, really good job. That was the first time that I’ve worked with her. I’ve known her for a long time, like maybe a decade or something like that. And she’s very smart. She’s very competent. And just, you know, kinda so I got to listen to her. Not totally, because we had flight. You know, I had a fly thing. And, but what I got to listen to was really, really good. She’s really hands on. She’s really smart. And so that was, that was a lot of fun. Yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Awesome. Yeah. She’s great. We’ve known her for a while now. And yeah, very, very sharp. She’s got a really pretty diverse background. So it’s been fun, fun chatting with her. And so no doubt that was an awesome seminar.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Yeah, yeah, it was really good.
Dr. Andrew Wells: I can say that was kind of like a bucket list thing for her. She’s, you’ve been a big influence on her. So she was really excited and also really nervous to lecture with you. And I think, yeah, I think that was a weekend that she won’t forget.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, no doubt.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Yeah, I’m very non-judgmental. She really came up to the plate, she did a really, really good job. You know, she’s just the next generation. I mean, someone’s kinda keep moving forward. And I think that she’s as good or better than anyone that I’ve seen out there. So I think the future holds that we will all be seeing a lot more of Kristen. I think.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. I think that’s kind of a really good segue into some thoughts that I had that I wanted to ask you about. You know, when we talk about low-level laser therapy, at this stage of the game, I think the preeminent mechanism of action that most everybody is in agreement with is, you know, the fact that specific wavelengths of light stimulate the mitochondria that helps to output you know, more efficiency in terms of ATP synthesis and production. But I wanted to explore and maybe pick your brain as to what you think the future holds in terms of alternative mechanisms of action that seem to be also at play that studies are starting to kind of reveal. You know, we’ve been hearing a little bit more about this topic of photo biometrics and low-level laser therapy, stimulating the microbiome and the influence of that. We’re hearing some in terms of talks of light stimulating microtubules, and maybe this kind of idea of, you know, light acting upon the body in such a way that it’s almost like a fiber optic network and things like that. What are your thoughts in terms of some of these alternative theories? Where do you think things are going? What does the future hold? In your opinion?
Dr. Dan Murphy: I think those things that you just shared, have been around for a very long time. I remember 20 years ago, hearing Jeff Spencer talk about all of that, and I thought it was pretty fascinating. Of course, when you talk about the microbiome, what immediately comes to mind is the realization that a human is more microbial than human? When you look at how many cells are human cells with human DNA, and how many cells are microbial with microbial DNA, they win the means the microbes win. And when you use lasers on any salary, what is a microbe? What is a bacteria? If you read evolutionary biology, which I’m a fan of, I think that that’s synonymous with chiropractic innate intelligence. When you read evolutionary biology, it is routinely claimed that there is a symbiotic relationship between a human and a microbe that is now we call it the mitochondria. And that there’s really, in terms of genetics, no difference between a mitochondria and a bacteria. So being able to influence the microbiome, that’s not surprising at all. I mean, it is probably a really important thing. I think that we’re it gets to be increasingly fun, though, is the realization that there are now brand new studies that I’ve been shown in my classes that are top tier journals, credible studies that are claiming that there are free floating mitochondria in our bloodstream, that they’re, they’re actually the same genetics, the same nucleotide base sequences, the same expression to proteins as our mitochondrial DNA. So they look at him as a free floating microbe, but a free floating mitochondria. And you can influence those with lasers, just like you’re talking about the whole thing on the electron transport chain, and your ability to influence it with different waveforms. There, you should know that if there’s anything I see weird in that regard, there are increasing status that are claiming that lasers are probably working at a quantum biological level, which is really heavy duty stuff. But what they have the ability to do is to breed animals that don’t have cytochrome c oxidase, let’s say, so they don’t have that protein, they don’t have that ability. So in yet they could put lasers on him. And notice incredible changes in the production of adenosine triphosphate. So how do you explain that? Well, the relevance of all of that just kind of wrapping it all around, is that the current explanations are good, they’re accurate, but they are without a doubt, incomplete. Sure. Forward, you’re gonna get more and more of these quantum biological explanations, into just sort of going that direction is a pretty important direction, the different waveforms. But what I think is even funnier, though, is that in chiropractic, there’s this thing called the 10 Synchronous matrix. And that is an interconnection of all of the tissues of our body through a matrix. And it’s a big deal. I mean, there’s great studies and books on it. I remember the one that influenced me was there’s one out of the animals of medicine by a pediatrician out of Harvard named Donald Enberg, and it’s it’s it’s an article titled mechanical transduction and mechanical biology. And essentially, what it says is that there is a matrix that is separate from our genetics. That is a whole body communication network, outside of the nervous system. And that I heard Jeff Spencer way back 20 years ago, talking about a guy named Joe Jones out of UC Irvine, and how you could influence the network with light almost anywhere. And he would go over studies on how they could register changes in brain physiology by sticking the laser on the toe. And they would happen so quickly, that it was quicker than the nervous system could do it. And so their explanation is something through the 10 segments matrix. I think that stuff is exceptionally fascinating. And things that we’ll see more and more of as time goes on. But the way you started this small talk today, you kind of said what is new in my world, and I had something that was really relevant. And that is when I did my 50th high school reunion. I’m thinking okay, well, and in high school, I was kind of a nobody. I I mean, I was on the football team I ran track. But really, no one knew my name. I think I got the golden Splinter award for the football team. And I spend more time on the bench than any. But we do the 50 year thing. And my high school is very exceptional, like 99% go to college. It is a college prep school. And I did the 50 year reunion. And all of a sudden, I, who was a middle backer, ended up being, as far as I can tell, number one, in both physical and mental abilities. And I attribute that, in large part to that 22 years ago, we developed a laser brain protocol, because you could start seeing studies that say, yeah, you can use the laser to treat Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s and amo, trophic lateral sclerosis and traumatic brain injury and stroke, all true. But if you look at those articles critically, they say, you can use them for cognitive enhancement, than that for cognitive enhancement. That’s a really big deal. And that if you’re looking at our country, our world, but look at our country, and the profits of our country are saying, our country is doomed because of one illness. And that is dementia. Dementia is swallowing our country, it’s happening to more and more of our citizens at a younger and younger age, which means that our brain is dying, but their body is so a lot. So you take care of them. Studies that came out of around review as much as you know, in 2015. So did that back eight years ago, they started to figure out that once you are diagnosed with dementia, and you need ongoing care for the rest of your life care, it’s 10 years, and the average care is 100 grand a year. Well, that’s a million bucks a person, they realize that by the time I hit 85, that there will be 15 million Americans officially diagnosed with just one form of dementia. And that’s going to be and that’s Alzheimer’s. And let’s say you take 15 million you multiply by 100 grand, that’s $1.5 trillion. Nope, society can sustain that. And so they keep looking at it saying, Well, you know, we need better drugs, and they got the new drugs that are just under 30 grand a year that they want you to take. No society could pay for that it’s impossible, it will break every healthcare system out there. And so they’re looking at, you know, so when read review did the thing, I wrote a letter to the editor and say, Hey, if you guys are so misguided, I’m going to do this, these numbers. And your conclusion is, we’re going to need a lot more money. I go, if we gave you all the money, it’s not enough. The only solution is you have to figure out how to prevent it. And so it’s multifactorial, but one of the things that I’ve been seeing in the studies for 20 years, is that if you figure out how to do the laser protocols, you never would do it with a high powered laser, because it’s probably contraindicated, even dangerous. We use low level laser therapy, we know exactly where to put it. We know exactly how long to put it. We know exactly what the blinks for example, I just class also with Trevor Barrett, and you know, brilliant neurodevelopment is probably going on as well. And both of us independently found studies that say if it’s Alzheimer’s, the blinks, the pulses have to be exactly 40 persons per second, which we can do our lasers, we can dial in 40, we found another one that says if you do exactly 10 blinks per second, and that’s so we can dial out one so we can dial in four. So there’s do the four and then Trevor says you should use 60 and never number one, Michelle who my business partner, my rents my office, Michelle does number one and number 528 Because that influences the production of serotonin, which is the neurotransmitter for love and, and and happiness, that just kind of putting all these things together. So what our attitude is in our preaching is that you have to make it with an analogy of flossing your teeth. If you floss your teeth once a week, it’s probably not going to do that much benefit. And but the goal for flossing teeth and brushing teeth is you do it every day. And so we made a commitment to do our protocols every day. And we do the protocols every day for over 20 years now. And the result is just amazing ability. Instead of watching the kids I went to high So with watching their cognitive decline, there, you look at someone who was a middle of a packer and has cognitively gone up, and I would just commit to it. And here I am now at 68. And we are rocking it, we haven’t peaked every day, I’m smarter, I understand things better, things are more clear to me. I can throw up more things and juggle them in my brain without dropping any of them. And then I keep thinking, Whoa, there’s something really to this, they’re gonna figure it out, they’re gonna figure it out that this is a really big deal. If there’s anything else new, you expect that I really just go crazy, is that this weekend, I, I get to do a four hour laser presentation. So it’s on. It’s a remote, it’s on the computer that’s going to read through it. And I’ve just been, you know, for our presentation, I have just spent probably 40 hours putting together a four hour talk. The thing that struck me more than anything else is if you look at last Thursday’s USA Today newspaper front page, there’s an article saying we have created the human end game, creating human endgame is reiterated in these two books. If you’ve ever read the coming plague by Harvard microbiologist Laurie Garrett. If you’ve ever read the elegant defense, the extraordinary new science of the immune system, they are claiming that we have killed ourselves. And we don’t know how antibiotics there are so many resistant strains. I mean, just this is one of the things that they quickly point out this week, this week, they’ve quickly point out that, you know, COVID, globally in three years has killed round it, but very close, 7 million humans gone. Antibiotic resistance globally kills 5 million every year. Three years COVID knocks out 7 million Antibiotic resistance is knocking out 5 million every year. And they say is on a pace that’s going up like a space shuttle. And so what we’re looking at is, what are alternatives to that, I’m telling you with authority, anyone that can do a live search can figure this out. It’s laser lights. And the one that gets the greatest press is gotta be the violet. And so just just Google just Google, just go to PubMed, anti microbial blue light, you’ll see that most of the waveforms use 405, if you’re to the right longer than 400 is non mutagenic. But if you go both below 400, like ultraviolet and X rays and gamma rays, there’s a downside to it. Yeah, I have the studies where they completely knock out COVID with 222 or 258 nanometers, but they’re mutagenic. So you can use them on people or kids or pets. But you could use a 405 there is no downside. And there’s only good side. And they are used almost zero ability to create microbial resistance. And they also work on bacteria, fungus, parasites and viruses. While you look at the problems, they see what some of the biggest problems they have with anti biotic resistance is that they keep giving antibiotics to people that have viruses. They don’t work on viruses. But lasers do but antibiotics don’t. But when you use them inappropriately like that, you just accelerate the evolution of the pathogens, they are so much stronger today as compared to, to less than 100 years ago when antibiotics became commercially available. I think that in the future besides the dementia thing in the cognitive enhancement, which I’m really into, we’re gonna see more and more stuff about microbes. And you and I, we’ve already talked a little bit about the microbiome, and some things that they’re finding that you can you’re changing the pathogens without knocking out the beneficial guys, this is really critically important. There’s a lot of really good things that are kind of going on. And I think also historically, even as we’re looking at, you know, I see the background of the laser lightshow. And you have all these red beams going around that the people that are hardcore readers, like I think the team teachers that are Konya and a lot of their researchers back at the home office, they start to realize as great as the red beam is, the red beam is critically important. But there are other beams that are synergistic. And that’s the green and that’s the violet. And the fact that we now do this thing we learned actually from Trevor Barrett. We do this thing called stacking, where we everyone has their red so we put our red and the on whatever we’re doing. And now we have a stand we put on our violet green, and put it on top of it. And I’m looking at some of the stuff that Michelle Michelle says most of the patients, I see what she’s doing clinically, it is just like whoa, I mean stuff that is just flat out miraculous. I mean, like, every week, every day, almost these guys the the genius of understanding that the key to everything appears to be the mitochondria. The mitochondria are the biological epicenter of aging, one is only as young or as old as their mitochondria is. And there are things that you can do. What is the common link between high intensity interval training between intermittent fasting between taking a handful of supplements like acetyl, l carnitine, and alpha lipoic acid and your magnesium, and alasia. They all target the mitochondria. So we do all of these things, we target this and the fact that lasers will probably increasingly grab the lion’s share a physiological benefit from all of these different approaches. So it’s really an exciting time. It’s stuff I wish I would have known when I started practice 45 years ago, I did. But now it’s you get going on these things. It is literally impossible to practice without a laser. What would you do? Are you kind of freeze up you know what to do. I mean, you you do your chiropractic and your exercise, nutrition, all great. But it’s like when you have people that are really messed up like, Well, what do you do with someone’s Parkinson’s disease? I mean, what do you do? Why is Michelle, she just stacks up and does this, and we watch the outcome? What do you do when a parent says I’ve got a child who has an an in utero stroke? Her official diagnosis, cerebral palsy, she is three she doesn’t speak and she doesn’t move. She’s a mobile and a physic. And within nine days, she’s doing both moving and talking anything. Okay, well, what the heck, how come this isn’t the front page news. I just have I’ve shared with classes now. In fact, I did a Christmas cost. Some chiropractor from Tennessee writes me an email. It’s always to be in Michelle, mostly Michelle, because I get too many emails. And this morning I looked at it was fine to try to find this link. And I have over 16,000 emails, I’m supposed to process none of it jump. But this chiropractor is in Tennessee. And he writes, a letter goes, Listen, my dad had a stroke up in Wisconsin. And he says it was really going bad. He was completely gone. They put them in hospice for end of care. And for end of life care. And he goes, You know, I drove from Tennessee up to Wisconsin, which was to say my final goodbyes to my father. And he brought my laser with me. And I showed mom out of use it. I showed her the spots where we put it positively. He goes it was nothing but improvement. From that moment on he goes, he’s completely out of the woods. He’s home and the doctors are baffled. That’s because all of their education is about pharmacology. And you get things that are non pharmacologic based even though they are physiologically sound, you hardly hear anything about it, because it competes with pharmacology and pharmacology. If you ever read the book, sickening by John Abramson from Harvard added last year, he says the whole show is controlled by pharmaceuticals including politics. He says they know, they control everything. He says in the book, How to Harvard last year that they give every elected politician $450,000 a year, where you can pretty much count on their vote on anything you want to do, including mandating take our drugs or whatever, make our drug, the standard of care, and anyone doesn’t do it. It’s outside the standard. And yet, you read about I just put another article in my article review servers, it got this article reviews tears on staff in pharmacology. It’s a crime, what they’re getting away with, if you look at the differences between the relative and the absolute risk, it’s an actual absolute crime. But it has become the standard of care because of the power of the pharmaceutical purse. And yet, there’s so many things that are not pharmacologically basic and help people. And so we’re just totally in them. That’s, you know, that’s kind of the chiropractic profession, and we’re kind of the leaders of all of that stuff. So it just seems like a natural amalgamation, that chiropractic healthcare providers would get involved in the cutting edge technology of low level laser therapy. Yeah, for sure. Really fast.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So no, that was amazing. I want to circle back on kind of one idea there. And curious, you know, we’ve talked about this idea of free-floating mitochondria. Is there any idea as to the prevalence or the amount? I mean, is there a high percentage, low percentage, what do you know about that?
Dr. Dan Murphy: I don’t know very much, to be honest. I mean, I’m looking because I think it’s a really good question and a relevant question, but what kind of gets me into it? It goes back to kind of this stuff you talked about, about the microtubules and the 10 segments matrix, which are the words that I use. If you look at some of the laser studies, they will take animals and they will injure them bilaterally. So my injury, and the injury can be either a cut, scalpel, or a burn, or a crush. And then they take the animals, and they randomly divide them into two groups, one group gets nothing. The other group, they laced them. And as expected, didn’t matter the type of injury, the laced group significantly heals better than the controls. And the thing, and yeah, that makes sense. But this is what caught them off guard. The wounds were inflicted bilaterally; they only raised one arm, non-laser arm significantly out healed the controls. So you right away, go, Okay, what’s the depth of penetration? Zero? There was no penetration; it wasn’t even laser? How can you explain that? Well, they would explain it saying well, you’re changing the communication to the 10-second or to Integritas matrix, or you’re changing things in the blood, or the lymphatics or something, and it kind of goes systemic. Well, now they’re gonna realize you are hitting these free-floating mitochondria and changing their ability to do all kinds of stuff. And every time the heart beats true, these guys just scattered around; you’re putting it, there’s a certain percent, it is probably different on everybody in but whatever it is, something is happening that heals the other side. And I keep thinking this concept of the free-floating mitochondria is quite new, but I think very relevant. And therefore, I think the answer to your question is, it is probably at the moment unknown. Yeah, it does. It won’t be known in the next five years, but it’s probably unknown right now. But it seems like it’s at a physiological quantity that it is relevant in health issues and in laser therapy and everything else you do to help the mitochondria. I mean, your supplements, your intermittent fasting, the interval training, all the things that we would kind of do on top of our chiropractic would.
Dr. Chad Woolner: And I would have to think, too, that if there’s an evolutionary connection between microbe the microbiome and bacteria and the mitochondria, there’s got to be a similar mechanism of action on the microbiome, right? In terms of that sort of influence and or connection. And that would make total sense if whatever it is five times 10 times more, not us in terms of, you know, I was, it’s funny, it’s funny, you said that because we were at the I was at the Oregon coast this weekend, visiting my parents. And we were talking about a conversation that our good friend, Dr. Isaac Jones had with Dr. Joseph Mercola; they were swimming at the beach some time ago, and they got out, and Isaac went and took a shower and was going to go shower at the beach. You know, they have outside their the showers and Dr. Mercola is like, what are you doing? And he’s like, showering off, and he says, No, you’re gonna rinse off all the good microbes that you’ve got from the ocean; he’s like, keep those on you as long as you can. And he’s like, Oh, that kind of makes sense, actually, you know. And, and so for me, I’m thinking, you know, if there’s that evolutionary connection, no doubt, that’s playing a role. There’s got to be some sort of a similar mechanism of action when they talk about the influence on the microbiome there if there’s that mitochondrial connection there.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Yeah, undoubtedly the in. That’s why, you know, when COVID hit 2020, it didn’t take long for studies to start to pop up looking at lasers for COVID. And there I am. Class Notes have big sections, a lot of studies on it. But what I found was pretty much short-sighted for the author’s coming out of San Diego State and Marquette University and stuff. They would advocate putting it on the face to make sure you cover the nose and the mouth, the chest because it’s a respiratory virus. And that would be it. And I’m thinking, Whoa, I think that’s very short-sighted because immunity is primarily in the gut . Let’s just take the same protocol. So I got COVID I mean, I don’t want COVID I got COVID. Now that I got COVID, I don’t want to get better, and I want to be a long haul. And I don’t want to give it to anybody. So I isolated myself. I have my protocols. I did face. I did chest, and I did get and you know, my recovery was had absolutely you know, phenomenal. the first day I was for the 10 second day I was to edit 1030. I was one out of 1040. I was completely normal in every way. I mean every measure of my illness was gone. I continue to isolate because that was To the protocols do isolate, make sure you might be still infectious be with somebody. But when I took class with Trevor Barry, again, his emphasis on he also emphasizes doing the gut. Because not only is the gut, you know where the microbiome is, the gut is the vagus nerve. And so the vagus nerve goes to the nucleus tractus solitarius, which you can get to with chiropractic adjustments. If you read the studies at the elite university, by Ian Edwards and colleagues, but if you read Stephen Gundry, he’s the guy there with the plant paradox book and he’s read three books since then. Then he says the vagus nerve is both motor and sensory, the vagus nerve sensory is nine to efferent. So our Ferrant is nine different ones. So the key is AF Ferrant. And that is gut. And so doing the gut, you’re sending all of this stuff up into the brainstem, specifically to a spot called the nucleus tractus solitarius. Which if you read the art, the writings by Kevin Tracy’s a neurosurgeon out of New York, if you read the stuff that he says, that’s the quarterback for Neuro immunology, and so the fact that you can you get all of these other really cool loops, if you do the gut, which is targeting the microbiome, and the vagus nerve, but it’s there’s so much overlap with our free-floating mitochondria and the mitochondria that in every one of our cells, all of ourselves have have hundreds, maybe even 1000s of copies of mitochondria, each mitochondria has hundreds of copies of mitochondrial DNA. And then you look at all of the electron transport proteins, there’s so much stuff that we are influencing when, when with our therapeutic applications of light. And now the understanding that we, you got you got, you know, really for you ignored the fifth electron transport protein for and the fact that they now got it figured out how you can influence these four guys, which are the key, these are the guys where the hydrogen has to go up, and then five has really come back down. So the key is getting them up. And so you got violet, Violet, green, red. And so the stacking that we now do is just really, really quite awesome. And so a lot of times, it’s just not just for our patients, but apart for ourselves. Seeing how long we can keep our brains functioning at a very, very high level. I heard President Biden made a joke. Last week, it was the course tape about how he’s now joking about his own dementia. I saw that I saw that just this morning was pretty interesting, But I can forget, that’s actually not funny. But number two, that he’s now much older than me. And I’m wondering, okay, when I hit 80, will I be like that? Or will I be more like I am like this? Or will I be even better, my goal is to be even better. I think it’s just paying the price you just do the protocols just follow through, do what you’re supposed to do. And that’s kind of our practice, our life, and how we coach our patients and my students at the class. You know, faculty at the chiropractic college, I just was the commencement speaker at the last graduation at life West. This week, the biggest thing that is likewise every year is the wave. And it was this week. And so I was the opening speaker. The way that I did is really outstandingly awesome stuff. I posted my talk to my web page, and anyone can go pull it off; it only be out there for the month of August. But if you pull the wave notes, they are grand slam home runs. They’re the best thing I’ve ever done. Awesome.
Dr. Chad Woolner: We’ll make sure to post that there. Oh, that’s amazing. Andrew.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Andrew’s been very quiet.
Dr. Andrew Wells: I want to circle back. Well, when you’re interviewing Dr. Murphy, it’s better to be a listener than a speaker. I think. I want to I wanted to loop back to something you said that laser affects bacteria in it. It only affects it gets rid of bad bacteria but maintains good bacteria. How does it How does the body differentiate between you know killing off bad stuff and keeping good stuff? How does that? You know, I actually had this question from a doctor she she mentioned that she doesn’t want to tinker at all with her, her children gut health because they’ve never had antibiotics and they’re they’re in their teens, I think early 20s. And so she’s like I don’t want to give like a digestive support supplement protocol or like a laser protocol because I don’t want to affect what’s what’s there in a bad way. How does the laser differentiator as the body differentiate using laser for good or for building up the good and killing off the bad?
Dr. Dan Murphy: Yeah, you know, interesting that question came up to Kristen there during our class together a couple of weeks ago, and she and she started to show the stage at that point, this is really good, it was probably the reason I was meant to be in her classroom is that there’s a difference between aerobic and anaerobic microbes. And the any the anaerobic ones are the pathogenic ones. And that those are the ones that are influenced by the laser, while the the beneficial ones are not. And it has to do therefore with their utilization of oxygen, that what lasers are doing is there unblocking the flow of the electron transport abilities to use oxygen. And that only is relevant in certain microbes and not in other microbes. That that was the explanation that she gave it, I thought my has a pretty good explanation. I liked it a lot. The when you when you put articles on it, because in class, I go through, you know, maybe a dozen or so something like that, you just kind of run out of time, or you can do, but they clearly point out that one, they’re only knocking out the pathogens to that they are not creating resistance, like a laser low resistance, and that it is not influencing the beneficial. And so you kind of looked at those guys and Christians explanations about aerobic versus anaerobic. I thought that was a pretty good explanation. So I liked it a lot. And I thought, yeah, that’s probably as good as explanations I’ve heard anywhere.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s fascinating. Yeah, yeah, I would say to, I think it would have to be inherently connected to just the simple fact that our biology is such that we’re light driven beings, evolutionarily speaking, right? That sunlight itself carries with it all these specific wavelengths that positively influence the body, the microbiome, and we’re killing off certain things. And so no doubt we’ve evolved to respond appropriately to light itself. Right. It’s, it’s so it’s so inherently fundamental, as opposed to, you know, antibiotics are a relatively new intervention. And so no doubt, it’s not necessarily a natural thing. You know, that’s my guess, too.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Exactly. And again, you with evolutionary biology, talking about human evolution, and about, if you, if you ever that book, why we sleep by Matthew Walker in 2017, at UC Berkeley, he talks about that you should be careful, even with light and his negativity is blue, back lit devices, after dusk, can have some negative influences because of the way that we evolved with a special sensitivity to blue because of the blueness of the sky, and the blueness of the water, and how the blue then drives the super charismatic nucleus production of chemistry that goes to the pineal gland and the production of melatonin. If there’s anything that has come out in a positive way, in the COVID thing, is that the value of melatonin to, to to inhibit the adverse effects of this of the cytokine storm of COVID-19. And so, we our protocols have evolved to the point that we no longer use the violent after dusk. We use it during the day. And that’s kind of a pity that we learn from from Matthew Walker’s book. But it’s all just like you said, it’s all this, this evolutionary biological stuff. And so there’s quite a bit written on that too. So we kind of integrate that into our clinical approaches as well. And all of the different waveforms that are that are in in the sun that comes from the sun. And I think if anyone knows this more than anyone else, I would credit Joe Mercola. I met recall a couple times and I shook his hand I got his business card. I’ve emailed him once or twice, but he talks a lot about the value of Sun other than vitamin D, that so much other things that you can get with the exposures to all of the waveforms. As clinicians, therapeutically though we can isolate the waveform and concentrate them that’s what laser is, it is monochromatic and coherent. And then you realize that the key to everything is again, the mitochondria and the electron transport chain. The fact that there’s only four molecules, and you can target them with violet, green, and red. And it’s just seems like that’s the cat’s meow. Because you get into the sun, you have infrared. And, as well, and there are some some increasing issues that I see in the literature on infrared, and some of the things that it can do. And then you look at some of the manmade waveforms, you know, that are part of your 4g, and your five G’s, and your microwave and your radar, in your driverless vehicle and stuff like that. All of these things have a biological applications that are often deleterious. We kind of become aware of those things. And we keep coming back to the same central theme, it seems that the waveforms that tend to be most relevant for help are those that are in the within the visible spectrum. Yeah, so we’re staying in the visible spectrum and being cautious with things outside the visible spectrum. I do look at the value of infrared. But increasingly, I’m seeing studies saying that near infrared, is superior to far infrared. Because far infrared can open the voltage gated calcium ion channel, calcium can rush in create free radicals and accelerate the demise of the cell. And when it dies, it’s called excitotoxicity. If you ever read a book by Russell Blaylock play lock called excitotoxin. City as it kills. He does it from a dietary perspective. But increasingly, if you read that guy, Martin Paul, I think I grabbed Paul there. If you read this guy, man, he is the God I just put yet another brand new article
Dr. Chad Woolner: Unexplained illnesses
Dr. Dan Murphy: Unexplained illnesses by an emeritus professor of biology. From Washington State University was Martin ball. I just put together my laser class and a new study by this guy on Alzheimer’s and his pitches in he’s very cautious about when you do things that over release nitric oxide because too much leisure can over release nitric oxide, that the nitric oxide will couple up with the superoxide free radical making a molecule called paradox and nitrate. He says almost all of these crazy illnesses that are afflicting society, are linked to parry oxy nitrate. And I got, like I say a brand new study on this. He goes over 18 different explanations on the the drivers of Alzheimer’s as being related to the electromagnetic field. But it’s all longer wavelengths, ones that ones that are artificially made here on planet Earth, mostly for technology. And if you ever want to have an interesting moment, just Google a Havana have on Cuba. Just just Google that Yeah, going on. And I’m telling you increasingly, I’m seeing things that are saying this appears to be espionage. And it’s espionage to try to steal data. But their targeting is not that precise. Anyone within a certain radius of the data that are trying to lift this stuff off up, they get exposed to these pulsed electromagnetic fields. And it’s giving the person being exposed all of the signs and symptoms of a traumatic brain injury without the trauma. What is the difference? What is the commonality, both traumatic brain injury and these devices have the ability to open the voltage gated calcium ion channel. If you read Stephanie senex book from 2021 on glyphosate, she makes a compelling argument that all of our food that is glyphosate, it was about all of it these days, that glyphosate is a key later of magnesium, that magnesium is in the soil. So if you eat the crop that came from the from that land, you don’t get magnesium, if you feed a crop to animal eat animal, you similarly don’t get the magnesium. And the result is the protector against the adverse pneus of the opening of the voltage gated calcium ion channel. The calcium influx is magnesium because it plugs up the channel. And we’re all magnesium deficient. If you read that article by Bruce Ames, who’s now like 94 years of age, longevity guy who was actually you know, old because he had a lot of longevity experts in a young like David’s they’re involved are younger. They’re in their 50s. He says in his article from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences in October of 2018 that the number one mineral deficiency of the human experience now is magnesium. And then you read all the magnesium experts like Carolyn Dean and Mildred say Lake and Morley Robbins. They all say the same steps as our Meghan. Nizam is way low, which gives us a vulnerability to the adversity of these electromagnetic fields, because we open the voltage gated calcium ion channel, and we don’t have the magnesium to to protect us, if you read the typical great epigenetic methylator, ami Yasko. And in her book, under a second book, she says, essentially, glutamate is the gun. Calcium is the bullet that kills the neurons. And the bulletproof vest would be magnesium. So we got more, we have more guns, we have more bullets, we have less bulletproof vests, this is a disaster. What we want to do is to avoid the guns avoidable, let’s get more bullet proof. So we do the nutrition thing. We say, Hey, uh, Nate, biology requires magnesium for these reasons. And we try to protect plus, the lasers work because they have the adenosine triphosphate. But if you read all the hardcore, just go all the way back to tuzo. To read it read Mildred see like the energy in adenosine triphosphate is not accessible if you’re a magnesium deficient, and er. So you’ve got to get that magnesium. So you get hardcore world leaders on magnesium like Morley Robbins, who I’ve had dinner with, I don’t know, maybe 12 times I like I think the smartest guy No, he’s adamant that no one calls it ATP unless you’re kind of a rookie. He says it’s called magnesium ATP, mg ATP, mg das ATP because without magnesium, you can’t get the energy out and last phosphate to phosphate bond. So we dovetail that and we ramp up the energy with our lasers that are exercise in our diets and all these other things. But we got to make sure that they have the magnesium. And they all kind of give you the same number. The only test that matters is red blood cell magnesium levels, and it needs to be 6.5 milligrams per deciliter. So that we do those tests, just kind of check it out on people and you realize people are really magnesium deficient. And that they pretty much say yeah, everyone’s gotta get the magnesium to a certain level. So that everything sort of balances out. So whatever, you know, just
Dr. Chad Woolner: I first want to point out that you referred to lasers as the cat’s meow. I think that’s a first on this show, which I think is amazing.
Dr. Dan Murphy: I’m just on autopilot; I don’t even remember.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I thought that was awesome. Man, this is, you know, I think I seem to recall the last time we’re gonna have, like, quite the bibliography in the notes. Books you’ve given us at least six or seven, if not more, really, really good references in terms of books to check out. So I know that we’re going to be, I see an Andrew here taking notes all those, so this will be really, really good. I’m excited because I think, I think those books so yeah, there you go.
Dr. Dan Murphy: You know, they’re up on top and below that I just kind of pulled out that I thought, you know, depending on where talk goes that we might talk about Yeah, I’m a bookworm. I like reading books. It’s kind of like my fun. And I was here pretty late last night at about nine o’clock in the office. And then it’s, you know, it’s pretty early here at six 6 am is when we started this Yeah. So just you know, that all of these books because each of these books in and of themselves is another story that could go, you know, 30 minutes. And they’re all probably just floated Appalachia that I think are, are pretty fun. I think this one is exceptionally boring; it’s really tough. You really go whoa, but it’s kind of boring. The hardest book I’ve ever read is the coming plague by Laurie Garrett. You read this; you they, oh my god, a lot easier to read and elegant offense but you know there’s so many other really cool things. I might my favorite thing is just talking cancer and the relationship between the electron transport chain and cancer that is to me the most awesome thing ever. The two books that I just really are taken off on are these guys. You have Sam Apple’s book on Otto Warburg, you know, you read this guy
Dr. Chad Woolner: Ravenous, is that the name?
Dr. Dan Murphy: Ravenous by Sam Apple. And if you read this one, I think I learned more about how lenses work reading a book on a chemical called methylene blue. The Ultimate Guide came out in 2021. And I, you know, I kind of look at these guys, I think whoa, but they are sending around the cancer thing, and I’m trying to figure out okay, what’s going on with that? Only in that my mom when she was 44 and diagnosed with cancer. She primarily did the work of Otto Warburg and you her providers told her that she would not see her 45th birthday and yet she lived 26 years died of cancer. So she did whatever they did did not cure her but it prolonged her life. And just kind of understanding how to do that in the physiology like this book, ravenous Otto Warburg the Nazis and the search for the cancer diet connection. It’s all the mitochondria; he discovered the mitochondria. He discovered cytochrome c, you know, cytochrome c oxidase, that’s his discovery complex for, and he’s the one that started to take the lights from Albert Einstein because there’s the Germans in Germany at the same time to get to 1931 Nobel Prizes, and they did 26 Nobel Prize, Einstein got the 1921 Nobel Prize. But Einstein is a theoretical physicist, not a biologist. So the person that took what Einstein is doing and started to make biological applications was this guy, Otto Warburg. So you read this, and you see how then that gets mentioned in this guy’s book. And then the coolest book I’ve ever read really difficult is transformer by Nick lane. You read this, and you look at your section on Otto Warburg and the electron transport chain. And how you can move the electrons, you start putting all this together and you realize, whoa, this is exciting times. And we’re on the cutting edge of something that’s really, really great. Cat’s Meow. It’s really an exciting time to, to kind of be involved in all of this. You just, You just sad as you get old like me sixth day now, that shouldn’t have another 60 years. Because it just seems so exciting. You know that? What will it mean for your kids? I mean, both my kids have their own lasers. Neither are chiropractors; you know, one crunches numbers for Warren Buffett, the others are getting our teacher thinking well,
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. Well, Dr. Murphy, we certainly appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be here with us. I think we’ve gotten a ton of really, really valuable and exciting insights in terms of a lot of the cutting-edge stuff. What have you got coming up future-wise in terms of talks seminars? Where will you be for Docs to connect with you?
Dr. Dan Murphy: Well, I, I if you go to the webpage, Dan Murphydc.com. There’s a schedule there. I literally work every weekend. That’s that’s not an exaggeration, you know, 50 classes here. The most I’ve ever done is 64. This weekend coming up, it’s remote. So I’m doing a class remote is class on laser. And I just updated the notes as soon as you get to nine o’clock last night because I got to see the bodies and whatever and then put together stuff after that. So I stayed really late got it together; it is really good to me the best stuff I’ve ever put together. I’m going to amalgamate the 2021 Nobel Prize, and some of the changes and you see how these changes are all centered around the mitochondria. And it’s it’s some of the greatest stuff I think I’ve ever put together. And because of my background, I’m able to see it and figure out how it all fits in. And so I’ll be doing that starting this weekend. And then I’m all over. I’m doing like every weekend; I’m somewhere. Sometimes I’m by myself; sometimes I’m with other people. I do a lot of convention. So I’m all over if anybody ever wants to know, just look at my my web page. And then of course, I have the article review thing. The article that I wrote this week is another brand new article on how if you’ve been thinking that Tylenol is okay for your kids, you have a view of been misled. It is not true. In fact, it is worse than not true. It is a boldface lie. You look at the studies on this. I just finished a big review of an article on that. And it’s being proved right now; my youngest daughter proves it. When people see these things. Plus, I’m going to show them two new brand new studies on strokes and how they’re not related to adjustments; two brand new studies came out in 2003. And I found another study that if you have if you can predict the weather because your joints get different or whatever you’re sensitive to barometric weather changes, how that is indicative that you have scar tissue in so that we would target those areas and break them down. One of the greatest things of lasers is his ability to help the great scar tissue, and that is the study that came out of the University of Illinois in 2016. On on kidney fibrosis, I mean really awesome stuff. Other than that study, they use green, violet, and red lasers, all of them interestingly made by Erchonia. Pretty interesting.
Anything. But I just started taking off. No, no, no, no, it’s
Dr. Chad Woolner: Great. No, we appreciate it. Thank you so much. We’ll make sure that we have links in the notes to everything so that Doc’s can connect with that. So thank you for sharing that. Andrew, any any final thoughts?
Dr. Andrew Wells: My final thought was, it’s been too long since we’ve had you on the show. We had you early on when we first launched the podcast and I’m realizing now like what a mistake we made not having you on more times because I know number one year crowd favorite. And, you know, we chat in the chat and I very much hold you out. It’s like, you’re one of our kind of icons. And so we didn’t want to overuse Dr. Dan Murphy, but we would love to have you on again more often. For sure.
Dr. Dan Murphy: Yeah. And you say, Hey, you Jake is taking time out of my day, I didn’t take any time out of my day. So that it’s the only time I have Almighty starts my day solid. It’s so I’ve got to I gotta get your yesterday was college day, you know, we start college, you know, it’s five hours straight through. And then patients and then putting together notes and stuff. So when I do these things this early is because it does not interfere with my day. That’s the only way I can do and so I’m happy to do it.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Well, that’s awesome. And we appreciate you getting up early fourth. And that’s all we’ll say. So thank you. So it’s been a pleasure. And yeah, for sure. Let’s make sure that this is not the last interview, we’ll get you back on again, hopefully real soon. So I hope that this has been valuable for everybody listening and or watching. We certainly appreciate Dr. Murphy. And hopefully this has been eye opening for you and exciting to kind of start scratching a little bit more at the surface of what the future holds in terms of low-level laser therapy and some of the amazing things that that we’re starting to discover. So if you found this valuable and interesting, be sure to share this with others. And we’ll talk to you guys on the next episode. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to or Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources, including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as Erchonia E community where you can access for free additional resources, including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.
With a distinguished career spanning over four decades, Dr. Murphy’s insights and expertise have significantly impacted the chiropractic profession and the realm of health and wellness.
A magna cum laude graduate of Western States Chiropractic College in 1978, Dr. Murphy’s journey has been marked by excellence from the very beginning. His dedication to advancing chiropractic knowledge led him to achieve his Diplomate in Chiropractic Orthopedics in 1986, laying the foundation for his exceptional contributions to the field.
Dr. Murphy’s passion for education is unparalleled. As a valued member of the post-graduate faculty at several chiropractic colleges, he has enriched the learning experiences of countless students. Moreover, his reach extends globally through the delivery of over 1,750 post-graduate continuing education seminars. These seminars have covered a wide array of topics, including spinal trauma, neuroimmunology, pediatrics, and beyond.
To find out more about Dr. Murphy or to find out when and where he’s speaking next, visit his website at: https://danmurphydc.com/
One of Dr. Murphy’s central goals is to elevate the chiropractic profession through meticulous education in whiplash cases, personal injury management, and the scientific substantiation of the subluxation’s impact on structure and function mediated through the nervous system.
“They’re the best thing I’ve ever done. “ Dr. Dan Murphy
“One of the greatest things of lasers is his ability to help the great scar tissue, and that is the study that came out of the University of Illinois in 2016. On on kidney fibrosis, I mean really awesome stuff. Other than that study, they use green, violet, and red lasers, all of them interestingly made by Erchonia. Pretty interesting.” -Dr. Dan Murphy
