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Podcast Episode #12: Lasers Across the Pond with Simon Ramshaw

laser light show

In this episode, we speak with Simon Ramshaw, Managing Director of Erchonia Lasers for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. Simon is leading the charge to make sure the amazing health benefits of Erchonia’s low-level laser therapy are accessible to health care providers across dozens of borders and different languages.

Linkedin Simon Ramshaw
Erchonia Lasers Website
Linkedin Erchonia Lasers


Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody? Dr. Chad Woolner here with Dr. Andrew Wells and our good friend Simon Ramshaw, who is the director of Sales and marketing over in Europe for Erchonia Africa and the Middle East. And on today, episode 12, we’re gonna be talking about lasers across the pond. So let’s get started.


Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs, synced up to some of my favorite music from The Beatles to Pink Floyd, to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica. They were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have. Found affected my life decades later as a chiropractic physician. I have seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is at helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers.On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Walner. With my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the Laser Light Show.

Dr. Andrew Wells: All right, welcome to the show, Simon. It’s good to meet you. 

Simon Ramshaw: Hey, it’s nice to meet you too. I’ve heard a lot about you. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. So, Simon, you are the regional director or, it’s more than a regional managing director. Yeah, managing director for all of Europe. Middle East and Africa, so that is correct. Yeah. So you just got four, four more continents to go to rule the world basically is what it 

Simon Ramshaw: Well, we’re going for world domination. So, yeah. That’s the master plan. Yeah, that’s the Dr. Evil plan.

Dr. Chad Woolner: You’re a lot closer than I am. That’s amazing. So, how long have you been with rc? 

Simon Ramshaw: Well, I, I got, I became involved with Erchonia back in 2012 with the actual technology. I had a company which unfortunately didn’t survive the recession in sort of 2008,9, 10. Um, and I had a lot of experience in the medical aesthetic market specializing in market launches and things like that. And I just liked the sound of their technology. You know, I thought the market was going more non. There’ll always be a place for surgery, but I thought, I thought that, doctors are gonna be looking for different options for their patients.I came across the, the Red Laser for fat loss, and contacted them because I wanted to represent them in, in Europe,  only to find out that another American organization had got involved. Okay. So I started off sort of being a consultant for them and trying to guide them into European territory, which can be full of potholes and a bit of a rollercoaster ride because of the amount of countries, the amount of different languages, different mentalities. So yeah, and unfortunately, the company decided not to listen and, within a year they went into chapter 11 bankruptcy. Which actually then was the important part. It got me into the introduction to Steve, and the guys, and a long story short. Yeah, we got on extremely well. We met them in Liverpool, in the UK in Liverpool, where the best soccer team in the world is from. And notice how I said soccer instead of Liverpool.

Dr. Andrew Wells: There you go. For all US

Simon Ramshaw: And obviously the Beatles, and we got on great. We had similar thoughts, and yeah, and, and the rest is sort of, history. We started a company in the UK, which was to service Europe, the Middle East and Africa. Um, so that we could be closer in time zone to a lot of our customers. And, we’ve just developed the company organically from there.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: I have to imagine, like we, we have one regulatory agency really to worry about, is it, how, how complicated is it, is it to navigate all these different regulatory agencies in the three continents that you’re operating on? That must be, that must be, uh, a lot of red tape, I imagine.

Simon Ramshaw: Well, yeah. I mean, luckily we, we’ve got the skills of the Erchonia USA regulatory department, so anything that we, we don’t really want to do or that’s too complicated, we just passed it across to them. So it’s, it’s, it’s quite a good bit.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s nice. Yeah. It makes it a lot easier, I guess. 

Simon Ramshaw: So, but, but on a serious note, Andrew, Europe is so under-regulated compared to the us. You know, you guys have your FDA clearances. I know there are some clearances that don’t have the right type of study, but Erchonia has their level one FDA cleared, plus placebo controlled, double blind, randomized multicenter studies in Europe together. CE marking. Really all you need to do is prove the safety of it. So we get absolutely catapulted by all sorts of technologies from China, from different places around the world, which don’t have the level of clinical evidence needed to really give the doctor and their patients the reassurance they need. So it’s been a little bit like the wild west to be fair, and, and when we get flooded, whereas in the US obviously, you know, it’s a little bit more cohesive. It’s a lot more, clinical and, and the efficacy has to be proved just as much as the safety. So yeah, we are hoping by the end of this year that we are going through the medical device regulatory process, which will mean that the market will be changing. And a lot of those technologies that I’ve ended up in Europe, ended up in doctor clinics, which didn’t have the necessary levels of clinical research. They won’t be able to sell ’em anymore unless they do so to prove the efficacy as well as the safety. So guys, that, that can’t come quick enough for us because, you know, as you know, we’ve got 20 US FDA market clearances, you know, and all of them are, are a level one gold standard clinical evidence. So I think it will filter away a lot of the technologies which aren’t that good or don’t have the clinical evidence to back themselves. A lot of the technologies that I’ve invested in proper research will be left, and that can only benefit the clinic and their patients. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. You know, anytime I think of Europe, in terms of what’s going on, this was probably, I think, at least it had to have been about 10 or 15 years ago. I remember a patient of mine asking me had I heard about, PRP. And I’m like, you know, and I think I had vaguely heard about it and I remember she was saying, yeah, apparently several of the NBA superstars are flying over to Europe to have these various European doctors do PRP, because it, it wasn’t necessarily that, that popular or that much of a standard here in the us. And so I always tend to think of Europe, kind of ahead of the curve in terms of a lot of these different things, and maybe it’s because of that exactly what you said, that wild, wild west, kind of a double-edged sword in that sense that maybe in some instances some of the things that are happening are a little bit sketchy. But also one of the benefits is that you get some of these cutting edge treatments like PRP that are maybe a little bit further ahead in terms of what they’re doing. Do you see that being the with Erchonia and with the lasers and, that, you know, kind of being a little bit ahead of the curve there.

Simon Ramshaw: Um, no, uh, I don’t, to be fair,, Chad, the reason for that is obviously because we’re in America, we’ve gotta be very conscious, right, of the market clearances. And if we, frequently in Europe, a lot of, technologies can promote, any successes there. On social media or anywhere based on maybe some of their doctor experiences or clinical experiences. But as you know, in the US you can’t promote something unless you’ve got that specific FDA clearance to promote it. So it was a lot of change when we first came on board because we were used to being able to share a lot of information on social media and other platforms based on our experiences. But then we became a little bit more complicated because we had to be conscious that we were heavily linked in with what we’d say is the mothership in Erchonia USA. And we didn’t want to hinder any of their, chances of getting further FDA clearances, you know, and, and we’re talking about a lot of the neurological conditions and, you know, and another thing that, and it can be frustrating because we, we can see off-label treatments that can be done with the full range of Erchonia lasers. Right. And we wanna shout it from the rooftops, but we can’t because we’ve got to be sensitive to Right. So to answer your question, a lot of technologies I think have thrived over here because they didn’t have to have, you’ve gotta remember, you know, Erchonia spend nearly a million dollars on every FDA cleared study. And a lot of technologies that come about, these companies don’t have that level of finance at their disposal. So in Europe, they’ve been able to get one step ahead by promoting their technologies without having to have the cost, the studies that were needed. Right. But on the other side of the coin, I think it made a lot of other technologies jump on the bandwagon and sort of say, well, you know, we only want to be in the market for a couple of years. We want to get in and get out. We’ll just shove a shed load of money into the market and give people, you know, the impression that this thing is the best thing since Sliced bread, employee food sales reps, to come across it in a specific way. And doctors are a lot more cautious now because of that approach. Clinics have ended up in situations where a lot of the technologies they buy don’t do what they set on the tin. You know, they’re not as effective and, it becomes a bit of a catch 22. You know, clinics, a lot of the accountants are advising clinics to finance their purchases so they may end up with a specific technology that they’ve committed to a five year finance plan, and within two months they know that it’s not as good as what they thought it would be. And then it becomes a double edged sword. We need to make the finance payments but we’re stuck. But on the other side of the coin, we want our reputation in our clinic to remain intact, right? And we don’t want, we don’t want our patients suffering from bad results. So they end up having to write off normally the money that they paid because their reputation over the longer term is more important to them.

Dr. Andrew Wells:  That’s one of the things that drew us to Erchonia initially,, is that they had, number one, they were a company that had been in business for a long time. But number two, the big thing was, is they were the ones financing and doing the research and, as a clinitian, I’ve seen all kinds of lasers and what I call laser-like equipment and technology, which most of it like clearly is being manufactured in China. No defense to China, but who knows who’s manufacturing it, who knows what it’s actually putting out in it. It looks like a red light. Is that a laser? Is it LED? Like, you know, you don’t know. And, what is reassuring too is that Erchonia has staked the reputation,, and,  have done the hard work and paid the money to make this happen. And, you’re right, there’s two sides of that coin, right? It makes, when other parties jump on board, it makes the technology more known. It gets in more people’s hands, but you don’t know if it’s the authentic thing or not. And so, if I were gonna put a laser on my wife or my children or patients, I wanna know it’s actually the thing that it says it is. And that’s the one thing I think that gives a lot of doctors and a lot of patients reassurance. Yeah.In knowing that, it’s the real deal because I gotta imagine it’s probably pretty easy to fake, low level laser therapy with a red light or a, a violet light or an emerald light. Like I gotta imagine that that lends itself really well to being ripped it.

Simon Ramshaw: Yeah, it does. I mean, you know, it’s only a matter of time, you know, as, as you know, I specialize in market launches. So you try to give yourself potentially a five year window to do what you can with a specific technology, but then you achieve a certain level of success, you know, and again, like you said, no disrespect meant to the Chinese, but they have developed a bit of a reputation for, you know, waiting to see what comes to market and trying to copy it and bringing it out at a production of the price. You know, it’s not backed up by the necessary, safety information to show that it’s effective. And you know, with Erchonia, dozens of patents. So, you know, you can’t patent a wavelength of a laser, but you can patent how you deliver it. And, and through the, the length, coherent columned, monochromatic beams, you know, we’ve been able to patent that, which gives us a certain element. But then again, you know, I think with our Far East friends, sometimes that doesn’t matter and they know quite well that you know some companies don’t want to go through the whole core process and things like that. But, you know, Steven and the rest of the guys in Erchonia, you know, it’s very personal to them. As you know, from previous podcasts, they started the company because the father wasn’t well, and, and, Kevin was an engineer and they, you know , he, the dad found out that low level laser had very good healing properties and managed pain, and Kevin built up the laser. So I think because of their background, that’s one thing I really liked about them, cuz it, it, it, I think everybody loves a story. You know? And the story that I hated, I mean, you know, I, I said, I remember guys when I met Steve and, and Mark his brother in Liverpool in, in 2014, and I said, Steve, you’ve got some fantastic equipment. , you know, but a lot of the technologies in the market now are flooding the market with money to try to buy success. You know, have you thought about maybe going public with this, raising an IPO and, and developing, getting the funds that’s needed to get this fantastic technology and pretty much every clinic to give patients all around the world access to it? And, Steve came up with a very refreshing response and he said to me, Simon is family. If I went public, I’d be handing over the futures of my family and friends to somebody else who doesn’t even care about them. I want to keep in control of that and, and, you know, and, and provide a future for the people that are close to us. So the answer to your question, yes, I know we could likely become a lot more successful a lot quicker by doing it that way, but, you know, how, what price can you put on your principles and your morals? And, Steve’s one of my best friends to this day I’ve been across. Florida in May and Savannah, we went on a golfing trip up the coast and, you know, and, and they’ve got high moral turpitude and, and, and I think that means a lot in business. So whatever they say, it’s not a lie, it’s it’s truth. And you can tell with the emotion that it’s delivered. And, I got on board pretty quickly with a guy and I just felt their, their, their enthusiasm and their motivation and they wanna make a difference to people’s lives. Again, in Europe it can be very frustrating cuz we have, as you know, the national health. We have doctors that have reduced their surgeries by a high percentage since introducing low level lasers into their practice. You know, saved amputations, saved lives,, you know, and, and done a lot of good with it to my mind, and I’m very passionate about it, in the UK alone, it should be in every clinic, in every NHS practice, in every part of the country. But we’ve gotta jump through a lot of hoops to be able to get it into that and go through a lot of red tape, which defeats the object, the objects about patients. And I know it’s, it’s like a business. You’ve gotta be able to, you know, manage your money and it’s just a shame that sometimes bureaucracy and politics can get involved. You know, I think that’s what I was trying to say. That’s such, that’s such a heavy influence.

Dr. Andrew Wells: As you probably know here in the US, you know, it’s more, at least the general public is starting to become aware that our healthcare system is a massive for-profit machine. And it’s designed everywhere from the beginning of a, of a physician’s education all the way. How they do their exam process, how they do the diagnosis process, and then what treatments go with those diagnoses? And, it’s heavily, heavily, heavily, heavily skewed toward big pharma. And, the more, and the more the public becomes aware of this and conscious of it, the more, the more they start looking at other therapies that are often looked down upon and frowned upon because it’s not an evidence-based or science based approach. It’s what they claim. Right. 

Simon Ramshaw: It is, it’s what they claim. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: And, we’re starting, do you, do you see this? You sort of picked up on, on this, I think at the beginning of the podcast. Do you see this shift also happening in Europe? is it the same in the Middle East? Is it the same in Africa? Is there, is there such a, a fight against this, like over, over dominating industry of healthcare, that paradigm here in the US? 

Simon Ramshaw: No, not as much to be honest, out in the Middle East, and we’re sort of in the embryonic stages,in Africa. Yeah. Europe tends to be where it is a lot more complex. And you know, a lot of that is to do with, you know, the fact there’s so many countries, there’s 28 official languages. So you know, where we’ve just provided, for example, an Erchonia laser into Italy and we have to have the whole operations manual, translated into Italian. Certain countries in Europe, don’t speak the best English. So if you go to the Southern Mediterranean, we have to speak English without the principle they won’t. And again, we are lucky guys. You know, we as Brits, as Americans, you know, the majority of the world’s second language is English, which makes it a lot easier for us. So Northern Europe, Scandinavia and Netherlands, for example. Certain parts, the Flemish part of Belgium, Germany, you know, I think it’s even as basic.You know, they learn good English, not just at school, but they see a lot of American and British movies, and they have subtitles on them, so they still hear the voices. Whereas in the Southern Mediterranean, they dub the voices over so that it, you know, the lip sync, if you remember the old Western, the Clint Eastwood, you know, the Good to Bad and the Yogi for a few dollars more. You, I found myself a type of character. I kept looking at their lips and I couldn’t stop noticing that they weren’t saying the words that they were. But that hindered their ability to speak English, you know,  a little bit quicker. But yeah, I mean, you know, in the, in the national health in the UK for example, you know, I think if we had the type of process you guys have with the FDA, I don’t think we would have as many problems of getting into the national health because as I alluded to earlier, you guys aren’t flooded to the extent that we are. So the national health have to be extremely careful that they don’t take on a technology which doesn’t have the level of clinical backing. So I think this is why those processes are a lot more elongated. And you’ve gotta show extreme amounts of patients to get through it and, you know, fill out extreme amounts of paperwork because at the end of the day, they’re protecting the patient. So one hand I can see why, but on the other hand, when you’ve got such great technology and you’ve. The emotional side of the difference it can make to patients’ lives and potentially save the national health so much money, um, by not having to go through the surgical process. It, it’s frustrating at the same time, which you can probably detect in my voice as well. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: You know, for me, the thing that I can’t help but think of in this conversation with you.I think sometimes, and I’m speaking for both Andrew and myself, so if I’m wrong here, Andrew, correct me. But sometimes I think our vision for the impact that we wanna make in terms of providers and patients can be somewhat, not consciously or not intentionally, but somewhat limited. Right. I tend to think of, you know, my state or the country, the US and here we have, Erchonia has, you know, Literally a worldwide presence here. And so that’s gotta feel really cool for you to feel like you’re at the forefront of this kind of worldwide expansion. You know, all through Europe, multiple different countries there, Africa and, and, and the question that I would have, it’s kind of a broad question for you, but maybe this can be a jumping off point for us to kind of go deeper. What are some of the exciting cool things that you’re seeing in terms of this growth in, in Europe, in Africa, in the Middle East? maybe some stories that you’ve heard from providers with patients. What are some of the kind of exciting things you’re seeing happening in terms of this worldwide growth?

Simon Ramshaw:  Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, it does make us very proud.You know, I think, when I started dealing with the Erchonia US, I think. Maybe the competence in Europe has dwindled a little bit because there’s a reason why it’s a hard continent to be successful in, as I alluded to, right? Because of the amount of languages, right. And the different mentality. So, you know, I always used to go into a marketplace where I try to have around 70% of the infrastructure in the strategy the same, but have around 30% adaptable, specific to the mentalities and the culture of each. So if I go into Spain for example, with the same mentality as I would go into Sweden, I’d get thrown out and probably end up maimed  because they got that, you know, they got that manana sort of attitude, which is, doesn’t mean to be rude by that, but you know, in the Southern Mediterranean, they run things at a slightly slower pace. That’s what they say. . 

Dr. Chad Woolner: There’s exactly, there’s, there’s something, there’s something about the, the, the railroads or the, the schedule for the train In Italy, there’s some sort of cliche that’s there in terms of the train notoriously not being on time or something like that. I tend to hear. 

Simon Ramshaw: Well, it’d not be on time, but the infrastructure’s not there. So predominantly it’s quicker to drive  to actually get a train and, and especially with a lot of our Eastern European countries as well. You know, it was only really when the Iron Curtain came down in 1992 that they were able to actually change their infrastructure. So the interesting things when I visit some of the eastern European countries like Ukraine, which is in the rather unfortunate situation at the minute with with Russia, and where I was last week, Bucharest in Romania, is you can sort of like be higher in the city and look for one side and you see sort of the communist side, which looks a little bit run down.It needs a lot of it and then you can look to the other side and you can see what effect coming out of communism actually had on them by way of, you know, the freedom that they had and the creative license that they had. And it was sort of like one side, oh, the one size modern. So, you know, from that perspective, it’s very, humbling as well that we’re able to help a lot of these and give again, the patients the, their opportunity too. And, the clinics an opportunity to go down a different pathway. Yeah. So when it comes to the stories, I mean, guys that, you know, we could have the best technology in the world, which, you know, I know I’m biased, but I believe we do. But without the necessary levels of education and support, they’re never going to optimize how to get the most out of their investment.And this was the frustrating thing when we first came to Europe because their low level laser is very much a gray area.And the first chiropractic show, funnily enough, we went to, in the UK, I was on the stand with the rest of the team, and frequently we had a lot of your peers coming past and saying, no, no, we’ve got one of them. It’s okay. We’ve got one. And if we were lucky enough to get an opportunity to ask them what it was that they had, it was infrared or it was LED. I think a lot of them still think, and this is why we need to keep banging the German and educate you know, unbiased as well. We want to deliver a neutral education, so that they understand the different mechanisms of action and delivery mechanisms. So whichever one is the one that they want to go out and buy. They do it based on structural evidence rather than, you know, what they think, they know about it. We’ve come across situations where some of our researchers ended up on other, technologies, websites trying to give off the fact that the research is there. We’ve had some of our pictures with treating people on their website to try to give the impression that it’s Erchonia laser.So, yeah, it’s crazy. But, you know, we can obviously allude to a lot of the differences we’ve made with, we work at a cellular level as the advert said. We’re able to empower the human body to basically do what it should be doing, because most of us, I’m 51, nearly 52 now, do I recover as well from injury as I did when I was in my early twenties? Of course not. You know, the strains of life have had their toll on me. I went through a really deep mental health situation when my company went bankrupt and I got divorced and other things. And, you know, a lot of what life throws at us has an impact. No doubt. And one thing where we are making the difference from, we always just say the laser is just a transportation vehicle to get platonic energy into the body, to empower your body. You know, and once your body’s empowered, then it possesses the, the, you know, the skills to be able to heal itself from whatever, you know, the life control. Then whether can we cure COVID? Of course we can’t, but can we empower humans? So that it’s in a better position to respond to it. Yes. And we do that through mitochondrial action as you said before. And we’ve had instances with Erchonia in Sweden, where unfortunately a young lady was involved in a car accident and she lost the ability to walk and the ability to speak. And she started on the rehabilitation program. And by incorporating one of our lasers into the process, we were able to accelerate the whole process and give results that the doctors never thought they would see. And within three months, all of a sudden the patient was starting to mutter words. They were starting to you know, to have more movement, more freely. You know, I’m not saying it’s some sort of miracle, but you know, it was very humbling. And, and that was the first time it brought tears to my eyes because we were able to make a difference.You know, if you got the lasers and, and you weren’t provided with the support and the numerous webinars and seminars and educational forums that the Erchonia do, you wouldn’t have a clue how to really harness this technology in your clinic and optimize your patient’s results.So, you know, that was just one of many things. We had a doctor in Ireland. I think, was involved in a motorbike accident. And another one actually, he had, I think a garage door was pulled down on top of his leg and it, it created a, a fracture and, and, and, you know, a really what most people probably wouldn’t be able to look at without being sick. And, you know, he was worried that the lower limb would’ve to beated. You know, involved the laser in with the rehabilitation process and the healing process. And he still says to this day, he managed to save the patient’s leg by incorporating, you know, the laser in and that process. So, you know, all of these things I’m just repeating from the clinic’s perspective. It’s off-label. It’s not something that we can talk about generally, but it’s refreshing to hear some of our clinicians talk about. . 

Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s amazing. One of the things that Steve Shanks mentioned, I think maybe Chad, correct me if I’m wrong, I think it was Steve who said a laser can do anything that a pharmaceutical drug can do, but without all the side effects. And I think it was really, better, yeah, it can do better than what a pharmaceutical does without the side effects. And I think that that’s one of the really neat things about laser therapy when you’relooking at going into all these different countries and all these different cultures and all these different places. Correct me if I’m wrong, Simon, but laser technology, I gotta imagine is impressive to just about any person in any place. And there’s some, there’s some fundamental understanding of that the body can heal itself and we’re gonna use light as the catalyst to help improve that. There’s, I gotta imagine that crosses like almost all, all culture lines and country lines and, and understanding with that, just really simple light laser therapy, light therapy to help the body heal.

Simon Ramshaw: Yeah, I agree. But I also think, you know, there is a, there’s a lot of, again, as I said, gray areas with regard to the goal post and how far you can specifically get and, you know, Erchonia keeps applying and keep pushing the boundaries and everything that they specifically do. And I’ve gotta be careful, I suppose what I say, so I don’t insult too many people. But, you know, I think a lot of us as human beings, sometimes we can be open. And I know I try and my team try, every clinic we go to, we try to put ourselves in a position like we own that clinic. What would we do for our patients? How would we give our patients the best success rate? And we try to give our advice to the client, like, you know, we, we actually, you know, open the clinic, but there are a lot of people that think they know what non-thermal, low level laser but they don’t, they just look at it as a whole. They don’t really understand the effect it can have on a cellular level. And there’s some top doctors I know of in the industry that know that can’t possibly work. And when our guys look, you know, we owe it to our patients to be as open-minded as what, what we possibly can. And we are talking about evolution, we’re talking about pushing the boundaries. And as clinicians, we have to be open-minded as to what is out there and do our necessary due diligence and our research. What it is and whether it can improve the treatments we give to our patients. But unfortunately there still are people that are a little bit closed off. And I personally find it very hard to understand because guys, it’s about the patients, right? It’s about giving you patience for the best possible treatment that they can have and, you know, big times change and 20 years time will be talking about something different. You know, non-thermal, low level lasers has been around for such a long time, and I think some still look at it like it’s witchcraft. You know, I’ve been in a room where, you know, the range of motion has been zero because they’ve had inflammation on the nerve root, which has enabled disabled their range of motion. And you know, you do a 32nd treatment with the laser and all of a sudden they can reach a book of their head where they couldn’t go past their shoulder and see some of the expressions, like, guys, what have you done to mean? It’s like, it’s some sort of Harry Potter type stuff. , you know, uh, on one hand a lot of our distribution partners call the EVRL, the red and violet, like the magic wand. But it’s good to hear, but also it makes it sound mystical and Right. Somatic clinicians are very literal rather than the other way around. So, you know it. Yeah. I I think it’s, you know, we have our, but we, we are only gonna grow through education and, and, you know, telling a lot of clinicians and practitioners be open. You know, your patients deserve it. You want to provide them with the best possible. Whether you think the best possible is somebody else’s technology, no problem.But be open-minded as to the different mechanisms of action. Learn about these different delivery mechanisms and what works best and how it works and, and, and provide your patients with. Well guys, you know, I decided not to take this on, but I know. 

Dr. Chad Woolner:  I can’t help but think we keep circling around this, this concept that seems to be, to some extent, one way or another, the linchpin behind continued growth and ultimately helping more patients. And it, you just said it, it’s this idea of education and so I’m interested to hear what you’re seeing. I mean, obviously Erchonia is really doing a phenomenal job in terms of virtual opportunities for education. So whether a doctor is in England or in Africa, in Europe, so long as they have an internet connection, they can tune into a lot of the virtual training that Erchonia is providing. But in terms of in-person training, are you seeing growth and expansion? There are doctors responding well to education opportunities throughout Europe and Africa?

Simon Ramshaw: Chad. I think, I think as time’s moving on, it’s getting better and better. Again, I think because over here I, we discussed, we alluded to before, the amount of technologies that flood this market that aren’t effective.I think it makes a lot of doctors and practitioners very guarded. We’ve all got up before and we’ve spent X amount of, of thousand and it hasn’t delivered, which makes them very defensive. We obviously talk in a big way about the FDA studies, the quality of them, their gold standard, and some buy into that. You know, we’ve got Dr. Mun Asam in the UK who runs the Dr. MediSpa clinic in Knightsbridge, near herds, in Mali bone in London, and also in ethics. And, you know, he was blown away by the Erchonia’s research. He got the lasers in and he bought a second Erchonia laser two months later, you know, patients are coming in, they don’t just see here iImprovement in fat loss, which is what we are there to do. But the patients are feeling more, more energetic, they’re feeling healthier, they’re sleeping better.You know, the how that the lasers actually help with. So I think we’re pushing the boundaries in that respect by way of working in harmony with the human body rather than destruction. So there’s a lot of technology there, which causes it an area, and obviously we all know about this, creates the fibroblast activity and, you know get the body’s system to respond and to heal. But we don’t know sometimes what the long term effects of that can be. You know, we’re only seeing now a lot of technologies which destroy the fat cell and the research coming out that wants everyone’s fat cell that you destroy, 10 more regrowth in other parts of the body. You know, like the Linda Evangelistic of this world have been in the press, you know, being very vocal about it and affecting her confidence and, and, and things like that. So, you know, I think from our perspective, we will carry on growing, but we need to keep banging the drum with education.We are lucky, as you alluded to that, Erchonia got a great virtual, education site, the platform. We’ve had visits I’ve organized for Dr. Rob Silverman. He’s been across here several times to do lectures. Dr. Trevor Barry’s come across. We’ve had, you know, Dr. Kurt Ge done webinars for us as well. Rob Silverman’s coming over in September to participate in Swiss Chiropractic event in Logano, Trevor Barry’s coming across to participate in the European chiropractic lectures in Netherlands. So we need the support of our US guys because, you know, you guys have. You’ve been, you’re more experienced. You’ve been using the lasers for longer. You know, Dr. Eric Reese is also across, he’s got a clinic in Minnesota and you know, he’s proving he’s a modern demand by supporting his wife on a, a two year senior management place placement she’s got in the UK. So he’s moved across the pond, he even knows what football, proper football is now. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: I, I, I was just gonna say, I was gonna give you a great marketing strategy and it’s no coincidence that Liverpool, which is the best football club in the world, also has the same color scheme as Erchonia. So next time Il watch a football match. I wanna see, cause I know you’re a mover and a shaker, Simon in Liverpool. So I wanna see you in the sidelines with the Erchonia laser and their red light treating, all the football athletes. That’s the quickest way to get to the hearts and minds of, uh,  people in Europe.

Simon Ramshaw: Well, we’ve already started targeting the major sports clubs and, Manchester United are the arch enemy of Liverpool, and they also play in red. So I’ve said to, Vanessa, who’s my UK sales and operations manager. I said, put it in any club, but don’t put it in Manchester United no doubt. Don’t wanna improve their performance. We’re quite happy on a downward spiral at the minute, and we want that to continue  that’s, but, but yeah guys, I mean, you know, we’d, we’d be, we’d be arrogant, we’d be naive if we didn’t feel as though we needed the, the experience and the knowledge of our US team and, and we need to develop our Rob Silverman’s, our own, Trevor Barry’s, and Eric Reeses, who are helping us deliver a lot of this education over this side of the pond. And, yeah, I think that will definitely help us and it’ll help us nurture our own doctors who have the necessary level of experience then educate. Vanessa’s been trying to target Liverpool and if they’re listening to this podcast, guys, if Moala gets injured for six months, we can get ’em back after three . 

Dr. Andrew Wells: There you go. I love that. here you go. Yeah, you can’t say any more than that, can you?

Simon Ramshaw: But look, at the end of the day guys, I think COVID’s  had a big effect on the whole world. And I definitely think it’s changed the mentality of doctors, probably not just in Europe, but in the Middle East, but also in the US as well. And I think patients now are looking at, technologies that can maybe have a health wellness SL on it as well as, you know, getting results. So clinics we are finding over here, guys are diversifying. They’re not just resting on the lot of what they do. They’re looking at what else we can add to the arm of our clinic and, provide for our patients to give them, you know, better efficacy. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. And, and I think to that end as, perhaps cliche, as it might sound, it’s true. I don’t think there has been a better time for a physician to start incorporating, or at the very least start looking into, low level laser technology as a potential addition to what they’re doing in their practices for those very reasons that you’re talking about, that people are really, truly this you know, one of the positive, effects or consequences of these past two years with COVID and everything is that really, truly people, many more people have opened their eyes to better, safer alternatives to most of the conventional approaches. And so that’s been a really, something that has happened as a result of it. So, and, and you’re right again at the forefront of that opportunity there. So it’s gotta be really, really exciting to see that taking place. So,, Simon, for, for docs in Europe who is the obesity pandemic, what’s that now?

Simon Ramshaw: Sorry. I was gonna say, of course, you know, we’re in the middle of an obesity pandemic, which was accentuated by the right COVID, you know, we’re the only technology in this market, which has a US FDA market clearance up to 40 BMI for overall Erchonia reduction. So we can, we can not only help the patients by way of how they look, but we can help them feel healthier and, you know, potentially look at things like the, the doctors can look at cholesterols and diabetes and, you know, in other aspects and, and, um, create a, a what we get better.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolutely, I was gonna say Simon, for, for docs who are listening to this, who are in Europe and, and they’d like to learn more and maybe connect with you and or the European or Middle Eastern or African, division of Erchonia, where would you recommend they connect with you? 

Simon Ramshaw: Well, obviously, you know, we have a very close connection with our American colleagues, so anything that comes into the American office is handed over to us. But because Erchonia is a little bit differently because of the different mentalities. We have our own website, which is www.dconea.com. We have Erchonia laser.co.uk if they want to look more into fat loss. We have our own YouTube channel with a wide variety of, different educational PR related videos.Guys, you know, you, you, you’ve gotta be able to make money as well. So sure it runs hand in hand with creating a healing or a fat loss platform. We all aspire to, you know, that hammock somewhere on the Maldives, one day, Which, we can then enjoy the rest of our lives and watch endless amounts of football either side, golf, tennis, which wimbledon’s on at the minute as well. You know, we’ve got a, we’ve got a Brit in the semi-finals as well, guys, so , so yeah, reach out to us at any of those, platforms. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: We’ll make sure we have links, obviously. Yeah, we’ll have links here in the notes, in the show notes for docs. Cuz definitely in, we’re starting to see a lot more movement in terms of, downloads for the podcast in other, other continents besides just the US So that’s, that’s always exciting for us to.




Simon Ramshaw: I was just briefly on a holiday in Portugal with my other half recently, cuz it was her 40th birthday. And I sat around on the beach listening, then Steven Travis and then Trevor Barry could get,and you know, and Jerome Ruka and the rest of the guys. So, yeah, that is my bedtime reading at the minute.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Well, hopefully, other docs are doing the same. It’s been a lot of fun for us getting to chat with, all the ERIA folks, um, and all the various experts. It’s been, it’s been a, I feel kind of spoiled because I feel like, this is kind of a direct download to some of the brightest minds. Andrew and I kind of get to download all this wonderful information. And, so I feel like we’re getting like the fast track, so to speak, in terms of learning a lot of the science and, and know-how. Anything you want to add to this, Andrew? 

Dr. Andrew Wells: No, I just want to thank, Simon for giving us his time and shine some light on what’s happening in the middle part of the world. And, I have no doubt this will help hopefully a lot of docs understand whether they’re in Africa or Europe, Middle East, what differences it can make for their patients, what difference this can make for their practice. And also just start reading and researching, listening, watching YouTube videos, and just getting educated on what this technology is and what it does and what an amazing opportunity that this presents a way to help, obviously help more people but differentiate what you’re doing in your clinic for your patients compared to what everyone else is doing, cuz this is absolutely where the puck is headed in terms of the future of healthcare. Whether you get on board now, or get on board 10 years from now, this is where healthcare is headed.So, it’s, it’s time. Docs know about what we’re doing here at Erchonia.. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, absolutely. 

Simon Ramshaw: I agree completely. Before we go, I just say without the type of thing that you guys are doing and this sort of platform, we wouldn’t be able to get out to as many people and to educate them. So you guys are doing a great job. I look forward to seeing it. I think it’s entertaining as well as educational, which I think keeps people’s interest and, and that’s doubting you guys. So, thank you as well.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Thank you my  friend. Appreciate it. And, my wife and I are making plans to hopefully head on over that way next year. So, if we’re in your neck of the woods, we’ll definitely have to connect, becauseI have not yet been to England nor any of Europe, and so I’m really looking forward to it. My brother and I. Oh, actually I should say my brothers, my nephew and my father are right now hiking the Camino de Santiago Trail in Spain. And so they’re doing that whole 500 mile trek there. So that’s cool to see all their pictures and stuff. So it’s, I’m kind of just a, just a wee bit jealous and hopefully we could do something like that.

Simon Ramshaw: God, we will be more than happy to lead you astray. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: There we go . That’d be amazing. Absolutely. We will, we will take you up on that. So, again, Simon, it’s been a pleasure. We appreciate you and we appreciate all, all that you’re doing to really, truly help expand this. At the end of the day, it really truly is about benefiting patients and helping them and providing them better, safer alternatives. And so we appreciate you being kind of the tip of the spear in that of really starting to, to move this all throughout Europe and other countries and continents I should say. So, thanks again for taking time outta your schedule docs. We hope that this has been valuable for you and we will see you guys on the next episode. Have a good one.


Thanks for listening to The Laser Light Show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchnoia lasers, just head on over to Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as Erchonia’s e-community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.