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Podcast Episode # 18: Using Lasers to balance QI (Chi) with Diana DaGrosa

laser light show

We sit down with Diana DaGrosa to talk about the profound impact Erchonia Lasers have had on Diana’s patients and practice. By combining low-level lasers with traditional Chinese medicine, Diana has found a unique way to remove interference in the body and offer better clinical outcomes.




Dr. Chad Woolner: All right everybody, welcome to the show. This is episode 8 of the laser light show and on today’s episode we have special guest Dr. Trevor Barry, he’s gonna be talking about low level laser therapy for back pain, so let’s get to it. 

Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show.

Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, welcome to the show everybody and a special welcome to Diana DeGrosa. Thank you so much for being here with us. We sure appreciate you being on the show.

Diana DaGrosa: Oh, you’re welcome! I’m so excited to be here today with you guys.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. So, when we first heard we were gonna be talking about Qi and the realms of traditional Chinese medicine, I kind of perked up and got excited because this is kind of a new topic for the podcast and quite frankly my experience with traditional Chinese medicine is somewhat limited. I understand that you have a really kind of unique blend of both, functional medicine and traditional Chinese medicine woven into your practice. So, maybe it’s a good jumping off point to tell us a little bit about yourself, about your practice, kind of what you do and kind of what unique approach you have. 

Diana DaGrosa: Yes, absolutely. You know, here in Brightpath Wellness, we can find Eastern and Western medicine. When we think of Chinese medicine, which is herbal therapy, we think of acupuncture. When we think of the Western therapies as clinical nutrition, functional medicine, laboratory assessments, this kind of thing. Now, our practice, we’ve noticed, oh gosh, for many many years now a lot of people originally came in for pain. They think of acupuncture, they think of pain. But, in our study, we know Chinese medicine. We know that ultimately, every single thing studying starts with an emotion. So developing into this topic with patients has become something of, well, a huge interest of mine. And, as a blade, especially since I posted, what I have found is that I am treating more patients that come in with mental emotional challenges or especially anxiety and fear. I think I’ve been treating more back than pain. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, yeah, that’s not surprising. It’s fascinating because of all the experts that we have interviewed on the show, I don’t think we have yet had one episode where Covid’s somehow, someway, has woven itself into the conversation in terms of the way in which practitioners now practice. Adapting to the new landscape of what’s going on and you’re no exception to that as well and what’s cool is my guess, is you’re probably providing solutions and/or approaches for your patients that probably not many else out there are providing and so that probably sets you in a unique position to solve a lot of problems in ways others can’t is my guess.

Diana DaGrosa: Well, I would say that’s absolutely correct because a lot of referrals that we’re getting now in new patients is they’re coming because somebody that they know told them, hey, why don’t you try Brightpath to start to help with this condition because the answer really is not just keeping you know people on pharmaceuticals for anxiety. It’s just not, it’s about looking at the root of what’s going on and helping them help the person right in front of you right here. Now, giving them some tools and helping them during the treatment and we can certainly do that. I mean, you should see what patients look like when they first come in and when they leave. It’s like, I wish you could take a video of every single patient. You can just see that deep sense of relaxation and hope behind their eyes. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s gotta be really rewarding.

Dr. Andrew Wells: Diana, wait. When I think about traditional Chinese medicine, maybe the last thing that comes to my mind is laser therapy. It seems like there’s this [INAUDIBLE]. There’s the yin and yang there. We have like east versus west technology versus old school principles now. It makes sense to me this connection here, but maybe you can explain how you came across the idea of integrating laser therapy into your functional medicine and traditional Chinese practice. I wanted this to all come about, you know. 

Diana DaGrosa: What an excellent question, and I so agree with you, what you just said. Because you know, usually, I was not like a gadget person or I was a little bit slow maybe to technology and in fact not that it’s gender specific, but a lot people think always since there’s something that a lot of times of men do better than women. And, you know, my patients when they heard I was using laser therapy thought it was very interesting. They’re like, you know Diana, thank you so much for welcoming technology, especially because I’m doing it for them. I came across this when my father died of vascular dementia about five years ago and to what would occur and to see the brain degenerate. Oh my gosh, I mean, it just stays with you. It’s just, it’s like you can’t get it out of your head and I remember saying to myself, what else can I do? What else can I learn? What else can I implement? I was like asking the heavens you know for some guidance and boom, an email came through that was talking about helping brain neurological conditionals and I thought, okay this seminar just happens to be right where I live. I said I’m going to the seminar now, I had no idea what to expect. They were teaching a lot about functional medicine, I was already doing that in my practice. But, what I wasn’t doing was work with laser therapy and that was the therapy they were talking about. You know, you have that moment in time and space and time that’s this open. I wasn’t really planning on, you know, investing in a piece of equipment and then the other part of you says, wait a minute, this is what you were really asking for. So, I just said I have to keep looking at this. This doctor came over to me and said, excuse me I noticed that you keep looking at this one particular laser which is called the EVRL the violet red from our collection. I’m just so intrigued by it and as soon as the representatives put it in my hand I could instantly feel my sheet or my vital force, he put his hand on my arm and he said let me tell you a quick story. He said, my mother has Parkinson’s. She has tremors so severe she cannot bring water to her lips. He said she lives with us and I bought this laser as my first laser. I lasered her brain one time for three minutes and her tremor stopped for three days. When he said that I was about to cry. I’m thinking of my dad and could I have helped him right? And I said, I called my business manager who’s also my honey and I said, I know I left my credit cards at home on purpose but I must buy this laser and I’m not kidding you as soon as I brought it home I started to laser myself which is key and I encourage all practitioners to do so. I started to laser my brain, my legs, my back, all of my places that were injuries that would just not heal. Totally changed my life and as soon as I brought it into the clinic I was ecstatic talking to the patient’s about it. The next thing you know that patient would leave the treatment room and is claiming how good they felt that whoever was waiting said, Diana, can you please use that on me too and that’s how it started for me. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s an incredible story. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Just the podcast right there. That’s all I needed to know. We hear so many stories about this and I think a lot of practitioners like us start their journey and you know they find laser therapy. They find Erchonia because of a personal issue and you seem to be connected to that one event that was local because you just happen to be in that spot in life with your father and we’re drawn to that for some reason. And, here you are now helping lots of people with laser therapy for all kinds of different issues. It’s funny how these things start like that. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Thank you for sharing that story with us. 

Diana DaGrosa: Absolutely!

Dr. Chad Woolner: I’m interested, you kind of include it and kind of open the door. I guess there is a little bit of suspense maybe. You mentioned how when you used it you felt your chi or your life force. You know we’ve been talking to a lot of experts here in terms of the mechanisms behind lasers and we’ve been getting at it from a very kind of western, you know, traditional scientific lens. But I’m interested to hear what you mean by that and maybe explain to listeners what the rationale is behind when you use the lasers associated with chi. What’s that all about? What does that mean? Maybe dive a little bit deeper.

Diana DaGrosa: Yes, and that is a very very good question. I feel that when we are in the healing field the longer that we are in the field we start to tap into energy at a very subtle level so hence we always think, okay, somebody comes into the room and they’re negative. Oh my gosh, you can feel their energy right away. So, it’s all about energy. It’s all about when you get into it so that you can literally add a source of energy to your body. Whether it’s as I mentioned, my hand, you can feel that energy that is going into the cells that travel up the channels. You can feel that when you have developed that sensitivity now, even if you at first don’t feel that immediately, it is going on because we know that it feels conditional and patients will often say that; while Diana I wasn’t feeling the laser but I certainly felt the effect of the laser. In fact, when we started to do the immune balancing sessions, especially during COVID, patients would come in feeling awful even though it didn’t necessarily have to do with COVID they just weren’t feeling so great. Even if it was mentally, emotionally, we would shine that onto your brain, on their whole peripheral system, on their organ system, and they said; how is this possible that I literally came in feeling bad and I’m leaving feeling good? So it’s energy going into the cells. We know that the mitochondria setup creates creative innocent triphosphate, and you start to have the healing process. It can be enhanced by food and water, but it’s also enhanced by light as well. When we go into the sun, we start to feel good. This is concentrated energy and that is what I believe is starting to connect with the patients so that they feel much better. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: You mentioned something with the patients feeling better and I think when, and I don’t mean what I’m going to say in a negative way at all, but I think for a lot of Americans when you start talking about things like chi or life force that people kind of take that like, oh yeah okay, and kind of gloss over that. Especially when it’s something that you can’t necessarily measure but you can feel. Yes, one of the complicated things about laser therapy is like people want to know we talked about this a lot on podcasts. Actually, like, they want to know, is it working? Can I feel it working? And you can’t really necessarily sometimes feel it when it’s happening like you mentioned. If you’re not clued into your energy levels, your chi, your life force, you may not feel it. You feel the effects of that and I’m just kind of curious for you, are you seeing anything measurable from that? Let’s say from a functional medicinal standpoint, an objective measurement that you can attribute to low level laser therapy that is maybe a little different from the objective. Are you seeing any of that in your practice?

Diana DaGrosa: I would say that I do see reactive protein start to go lower now. However, patients are coming for acupuncture also because we combine it sometimes. Also, they are my functional medicinal patients so I may have to put them on a healing protocol. I believe, though, we have to have ample nutrients too in order to enhance the mitochondria. So, if somebody has a terrible terrible diet, and this is how often many of my acupuncture patients become functional medicinal patients because if you don’t have those keystone minerals, if you don’t have enough magnesium and be sick, and you want all of these things, then it’s going to make it much more difficult for your brain to operate your whole body, to create that mitochondria. So, I think I feel as though it goes hand-in-hand. However, you know something to think about is, and I’ll often say to other clinicians, did the condition get better or did the patients get better? Because ultimately, if somebody is and this is just awareness, there’s no judgment here, but if a person is coming constantly for neck pain, oh I have neck pain, okay, so you just do treatment and send them on their merry way. Oh okay, but what if we wanted it to happen to the vital force, the idea of every emotion ultimately starts with an organ system, we can say; hey Susie, I noticed that you have neck pain lately but you have it this week as well. Could you tell me a little bit about your thoughts on why you have this neck pain? Oh well, I don’t know Diana, I just hold onto the stress in my neck. Oh, did you know that stress affects the liver channel delivering organs and preparation channel is the gallbladder and did you know that just happens to relate to that upper neck, back and shoulder. And they’re like oh really? Oh, that’s interesting. How do you know that? We’re interpreting our life. Can we shift that into a way that is more favorable towards our thoughts in the day? If we collect them all more positive or are they negative from here? We can create a whole, just a whole way of having a person become aware so that they can then try it out in shifts. Because, I say, did you know that the liver is the command in life? Gallbladder is the decision making. We must have both balance and imbalance and that is what gets them. They’re usually like oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. I can never make a decision once they start to understand this shift and empower themselves. They no longer have so many episodes of neck pain anymore.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s a really unique and refreshing way of looking at these issues and I would say, regardless of what kind of philosophy a doctor subscribes to, I have to appreciate from that it’s far more upstream thinking that something we talk a lot about what doctors is rather than looking at the basics and you know I think far too often. What winds up happening is doctors will look at a patient complaining they’ll run a labor and then they’ll end there. That’s the issue, that’s the root cause and not realizing that even with the labs. You’re still looking at some type of symptomatic manifestation of other things that are driving these issues that patients are dealing with and I think exactly what you’re talking about is something for me that I can completely get on board with and appreciate the whole idea of, like you said, Chinese medicine of everything being rooted in some type of emotion that’s driving a lot of these issues. So, I would wholeheartedly agree and my guess is that you get to see a lot of incredible results and/or experiences with patients approaching things in this manner a year. 

Diana DeGrosa: It’s mind blowing. It’s absolutely mind blowing. I think the youngest that we did, they mentioned from a mental and emotional work with the laser six years old and the oldest I believe was about 90-95 years of age. And what I mean by that is often, I’ll say to myself, yeah there’s a tendency when you’re an active clinician to be very busy and on the go. I don’t have time for this button. No, I talked to myself, no Diana, this is something that you must do and you can do this all in five minutes. So, I said hey, would you like an emotional kind of reboot and they’re like, yeah, what is that? It’s okay, you’re going to lay down and you’re gonna put your hand on your forehead. I’m gonna laser your brain and we need to feel it to heal it. So, all the junk you said is going on, put your hand to your forehead and feel it laser the brain for about 30 seconds. I do not speak to them because it’s about them and then we take the hand away. I give them essential oils, I use essential oils like crazy in my practice, we give them one that they like because we know that it connects to the just sealed system of emotions. Okay, you’re gonna bring this cotton ball with this essential oil to your nose and then away from your nose. Wire the brain while you input exactly what you want all in the important permit to meaning zero negative words no noise, nothing, only in the affirmative and if you don’t know you’re stuck and you have no idea what you want to do or what you would want to say to yourself, then picture yourself in the light of what you desire. So, you’re seeing yourself with a smile on your face, no pain, relaxed, calm, and this is when we laser the brain again. And, I then often will go into a chakra balancing session from there before I even stick in the needles, and this is all within five minutes. Five minutes can dramatically change the outcome of their session.

Dr. Chad Woolner: It’s amazing. You know the thing that I think both Dr. Wells and I are noticing a theme amongst all practitioners, regardless of their discipline, their education, their training, I think the one thing that everybody on some level or another is kind of gravitating towards or all kind of simultaneously realizing is you get a much more beneficial effect with the lasers when the patients is actively engaged in some activity of some sort. Right? rather than it being this entirely passive process which I’m sure there’s a place for that no doubt, but the thing that I’m hearing you say is that the patient is actively engaged in something to engage various regions or areas of the brain. To engage certain thoughts, engage certain, you know movement patterns. Whatever that might be. That’s the common denominator that seems to be yielding a lot of really powerful results for practitioners in their patients is what it sounds like. 

Diana DaGrosa: Oh my gosh, absolutely! Because when we think about, I mean, all of the mechanisms when we have fight or flight. We know that we’re constantly going to increase these cortisols, we’re going to tear down the gut lining. We’re going to, you know, when their cortisol goes high, it’s going to interfere with the T4 to C3 connection. So, we now have a thyroid issue and now the thyroid can’t talk to the parietal cells and now you’re going to have an issue not being able to secrete enough hydrochloric acid. You’re going to have digestive issues. We know all of this right, so this is all physical. However, if we see the Chinese medical model, we see the base of beginning young as your battery. How much juice do you have in that battery right below your belly button? I try to have patience to kind of imagine this picture, and then we see excessive emotions spider flight. We see the heart as fire well. The fire is blazing so much as constantly sucking the water out of the battery. That’s your adrenal giving energy so you can see how you’re left, depleted constantly. So, yes, we can then lead into some vagus, you calm down. We do that with the laser but ultimately we can say if you’re using labs, this could be a good one. If you’re using say the wheat sewer and they’re constantly having leaky gut and in spite of your nice gut killing protocol, and in spite of getting rid of wheat, they’re constantly having this opportunity to say; okay, are we still in fight or flight constantly? Let’s calm this down. One of the stimuli, easy things that we can do. Sure, you’re gonna give them big ole toning. You’re gonna then put the laser on the adrenal gland, you’re gonna put it on the gut setting, absolutely. But simply, you can say okay, put your hands around your waist, okay can you breathe? Can you breathe right into your waist, right into the kidney energy? And, they’re like, well? Oh like what do you mean? You know they breathe right, they’re breathing shallow, that’s the energy showing you they’re in fight or flight mode. Still, we need to get that breath. All the way down into the kidney to fill the battery, so you leave them with a little pool like that. They’re just super mediate. Sometimes, you’re too amped to meditate, but you can get them to breathe into their hands and that is akin to. If you imagine this, you’re a kid, you’re making a fire, right? A campfire. What do you do when you have the kindling started and you band the fire and the flame comes up right? You’re creating that energy in the body, but it’s rooting and grounding instead of flying up into your head and just putting you, spinning you out of control. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: I’m finding myself breathing in and out as you’re doing this, finding myself like putting my hand on my stomach and all that, so sorry, continue Andrew. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, no worries. Yeah, I was doing the exact same thing. Diana, you mentioned that you use lasers to help balance chakras for the first time I’ve heard this in any of the interviews. Maybe, can you explain what that means and how you actually do that?

Diana DaGrosa: Sure, absolutely. So, we think of the seven energy centers of the body. The main energy centers of the body. Well, we also can think of the endocrine system. I try to speak to a patient in the words that they’re going to connect with because it’s chakra that seems so out there. I usually will sense that and use the word endocrine system. So, I can test that simply by using a little pendulum. You know? It’s just like when you’re a kid right and you go to another little kid and you see how close you get your hands and so you feel the heat right. So, we just use a teeny little pendulum starting at the crown and then you go all the way down to all the different chakras, all the way to the root and you see that the pendulum spinning is there’s enough energy in that endocrine gland, it will be spinning. If there isn’t, it will be stopped and so you should say, oh well, I noticed that stop, I’m in trouble. I’m like no darling, not at all. We’re gonna get that balanced with the laser, I have the frequencies for the different chakras or the endocrine systems all in the laser. We shine it then on the chakra, that energy center that is not spinning, and we then retest until we shine the laser until it does spin. This is how I see it because then we go into an acupuncture session. So, this is how I see it. Hey guys, we found that all four of these centers were not spinning now. What if I had just launched right into my acupuncture session, would the needles and the movement of your chakra, your vital force? It would be trying to open up the centers the whole time, which is great, but instead we just balanced you before you put the needles in which means that we can get further in your session. This is how I use the lasers to get further faster. This is what I tell my colleagues. You guys, if you see someone two, three times a week what if you thought that once a week out of the laser and they didn’t need to come back for another week. They love you but they don’t want to spend their whole paycheck and the whole time in your office, right? And this has been miraculous. I’m not kidding you, absolutely miracles. Now, they come in and say, oh you know, can we take a shower again. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: So, if I’m hearing you right, you’re kind of using this as kind of like a prep phase for acupuncture, you’re certainly getting a sort of like fertilizing the ground before you do your acupuncture work is more effective is what I’m hearing. 

Diana DaGrosa: Absolutely, 100% 

Dr. Andrew Wells: So, I decided to go in and I didn’t have any health complaints or things like that. I didn’t have anything that I wanted to fix or resolve things like I just wanted to experience what that looked like and so I went into the session. The practitioner who worked up on me asked me, you know, do you have any health issues that I know of and I said no and he said okay, I’ll just put you through just kind of a standard like, I don’t even know what an energy building, protocol or energy balancing protocol or whatever it was. I remember laying down on the table and he started putting the needles in and left the room and after five minutes, I fell asleep. And then, I woke up, I don’t know how much later but I woke up and as he came back in the room, you know I felt great. I felt fine and he’s like okay, I need you to come back two more times this week. I said okay I can do that. So, I cam in a second time that week and the third time I was in full-time practice of the time I missed my third appointment and I’m like sort of saw like wow if I really had something that I was suffering with, coming in three times a week and laying on this table for an extended period of time, that’s gonna be a pretty rough thing for me to swallow. So, I found it really burdensome from a time perspective and there’s a value of understanding what he was doing and not to say it wasn’t worth my time, but it certainly was an inconvenience and if you’re saying you can get similar or better results in less time and lessen the burden for the patient, timewise or financially, that’s huge. 

Diana DaGrosa: It is enormous and I just see it. As you know, I remember years ago having you know just multiple accidents and having to see a chiropractor three times a week and it derives there. There’s the waiting, there’s this of course there is value. It was amazing but it really took a toll as far as that’s over two and a half hours for one session really, right? So that’s six, seven hours of my whole week. That’s rough. So, if we can get patients back in the game faster, it’s phenomenal. And, what I always tell patients when we do this emotional reset is when we do the structural balance. It’s kind of one of the things I say, oh allow for 72 hours of integration and I meet them with it. You know, a couple of those thoughts based on what we’re, you know, what they’ve finished saying about what was going on so that they couldn’t work on it and inevitably the next time they come, they’ve said; oh my gosh Diana, within 72 hours X, Y & Z occurred and they’re loving it. So, if you give them something to do to observe, the more you end up observing in your body and the outcome. The more you empower yourself to do it again. Get the patient better, not just the condition. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: I think that’s extremely wise and insightful for a variety of reasons, but if for no other reason we have both, Dr. Wells and myself. We have taught for a long time to practitioners this idea that one of the biggest culprits behind many of the chronic health issues on some level or another, is this kind of collective disconnect that we see between people’s mind and body. You know, that we have collectively become so numb and disconnected as a society for a variety of reasons right? We overmedicate ourselves through, and when I say overmedicate, it’s not just medication, we use all sorts of things to overmedicate right and so the fact that you’re really trying to in essence, if I’m hearing this correctly, help patients become more attuned to their own bodies and look for more than just the superficial. But instead, dig a little bit deeper in terms of understanding and familiarizing themselves. You know with that kind of communication can oftentimes be when we’re not looking for it. So subtle, right, and so the fact that you’re helping to clue people into that, I think makes a huge difference for the patient and can really address a lot of underlying issues. 

Diana DaGrosa: No doubt. You know, I find it to be really fun. So, when a person comes in for their first session, you may ask a very general question. Now, you already have their intake in front of you and need to ask them, well, how’s your digestion? How is your digestion elimination and gastro blur. They say no no no I’m good, I’m good, and then you look at the forearm and it’s not a judgment observation, they are not aware, they think they’re totally fine. If you were totally fine, you wouldn’t need any of these items. So, we try to educate them about that and then we say, you know, this whole center part. And you know, often, there is some weight accumulation so we call that you know any weight gain. We call that accumulation there and we said this is how you digest your world. Let’s work on this and you know once you start working on it you lose their stagnation. Again, think shout this, we’re manning the fire like the example lime before, right. You’re manning the fire inspired by your breathing all the way down into the kidney energy. Well, what is in between the kidneys and the lungs? your digestive variants, and where is their manifestation? in the digestive areas. You see, so  we have to disconnect. We’ve got to get some chi moving and ask them how they digest their world again. You can plant these little seeds so that they start to look at their world. You know, somebody cut them off on the road, are they meeting at the mouths throughout the hospital? Well, yes. So, how about if we just you know, let that go to the hospital because she’s pregnant you just don’t know. But my point is in letting that go. You’re creating movements and in creating movements you’re ultimately gonna have feeling, because if you react or respond in that way to a person cutting you off, trust that you are doing it on all levels. How you do one thing is how you do everything. So, we’ve got a lot of cool things to work on, right? 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Where do you see this now, Diana? We’re, you know, this is the first time I’ve talked about any expert using laser therapy for things like balancing chi in traditional Chinese medicine. Where do you see this type of therapy and technology integrating into what you do in the future? Not only for your practice but also for your profession. 

Diana DaGrosa: Oh my goodness! I want it to become just as common as the needle. [INAUDIBLE] Are so fast, and you know what our whole thing at Brightpath is the name. We want to help the patient, well, remove interferences so that they can be profound. You cannot be profound when you have all of these things in the way and when you help empower them each time so that they can choose a better path. There’s just nothing like that, and my wish for all practitioners of acupuncture and Chinese medicine is to see that and know that they can get their five minutes before their session because I hear from some; Oh my gosh, that session was two hours because it ended up turning into a, you know, a psychotherapist type of session as well. Most of us don’t have two hours and not that the [INAUDIBLE] is not working. That’s not what I mean, but did you really get anywhere? Were you allowing the person to only replace the tape? We know that the answers come from within so if we help them go within immediately. That’s why I say I don’t talk when I’m lasering the brain while they’re feeling it, to heal it, and then they put what they want from this alone. In a sense, they put in two hours of psychotherapy sessions. They’re getting the mind and the body integrated so that they can help to dissolve that tissue memory and change it. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: That is so profound. [INAUDIBLE] I think this is making my life miserable in that the provider, the clinician, the doctor, are like yeah, I get that and I want to help with that but I can’t like we’re not providing some kind of mental health support. We’re not so much mental health care providers but also there’s only so much that you can do to kind of counsel them and support them and make them feel like they’re loved. Without that, you know, forgetting that you also have other patients and other clients and other people who are coming in and running a business. There can be a really frustrating dynamic there, and I think oftentimes patients lean on providers like us for help because they’re not getting this help anywhere else. What you just said there was helping sort of mirror that back to the patient and saying no, lean into that and focus on it, feel it and your body has the power to redirect that incorrectness that’s not me. I think that’s such a profound thing because when our patients and people in general can tap into that feeling of resourcefulness and that feeling of being empowered, that your body has everything it needs to correct itself. We’re just going to help facilitate that process, and that ends up solving a lot of problems for a lot of people, especially when a lot of these conditions that we’re helping solve are relatively uncomplicated things that we’re solving for the most part, right? People aren’t coming in here, into our offices and clinics, with emergency situations. There are no gunshot wounds and stabbings and car accidents and things like that. These are chronic health issues that are rooted in either mind, body or spirit, and I really like the way that you’re integrating these different areas of the body to help someone sort of self-correct and redirect that you know. 

Diana DaGrosa: Thank you for saying that because the thing is, though as a clinician, yes it can push it in a different, difficult direction, you know, position. Just sometimes because we do care about them but really, again, is it really helping them to replay the tape? Oh my gosh, now you guys, you know what she did now and like okay, let’s reopen a little bit and let’s go within because in a sense we could become their enabler. We’re around for that whole tape to be played. Not to say there’s never an opportunity, maybe to listen to what, a few minutes, but you know, very well that if you give an inch sometimes it will be a mile. That’s when we have to say, does this really help the patient? And the more they’re talking (x2) this is wearing out the spleen energy thinking (x5) which is then going to wear out this center. We’re going to now have more digestive issues, so it’s like a cat chasing its tail. You know? So, by helping the to understand this, and I encourage them so everybody checks these days, nobody ever posts me on the phone yet. I thought, well, because they don’t have the hours to talk to you. So, they’re avoiding you and you don’t want to say that. But, you can say hey, is it possible for you to have a two-minute conversation with Katie. Hey (x2) just calling to say hey, hope you’re fabulous, that’s it! Oh, goodbye. You know? You’ll be able to have a connection instead of oh everybody’s against me, you see this happen and we don’t want to play into that. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, it’s so cool that you’ve found not only a way to create and guide patients that way, but you’re also using a laser to help facilitate part of that process. I just think that’s really fascinating. It’s kind of like, I’ve heard lasers be described like them, magic wands that help facilitate some of these things and so I find that’s really interesting that you’re doing this. 

Diana DaGrosa: Absolutely! Yeah, it’s so fun because we can then go on the kidney, on the bottom of the foot, right, and laser while they’re on the table and shine three minutes of energy right into the kidney. One root and ground so that their energy is not into fight or flight, so there’s many ways to treat it. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Are you looking at minds or in minds? Do you look at using a laser kind of like using a needle in acupuncture only just with a different modality, is that how you, I’m just curious, is that how you look at it?

Diana DaGrosa: You know, I use the laser and that way, for some points like the kidney or the bottom of the foot. Sometimes I’ll go to the stomach because it gives some energy or spleen six, these types of things, the belly button absolutely helps that again and again. I see it more as working. The organs might work a lot. Of course, we work with pain. You know the philosophical structure of acupuncture, that’s a given. But, for me, as far as the emotions and all of this, I go right to their organ systems. I’m putting the laser on their liver to help move their liver energy hugely. We all know what detoxification is, also really impaired right, so we do that extensively. I’m thinking more about the organ systems in Chinese medicine. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s really cool. It’s interesting who you talk to and how they’re using lasers. For example, when we talk to chiropractors, they’re often using lasers on different nerve pathways. We just had a recording with a dermatologist, Dr. Adlin, and she’s using one for skin conditions. She’s using this for gut health, so that’s one of the areas that she wants to influence and then you’re saying that you’re using this to influence directly on organ functions so your lasering organs. That’s so cool. 

Diana DaGrosa: It’s so fun! it’s fun. It’s endless what we can do. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, I’m really curious. I hope that I anticipate we’ll have laser light show episode 200 and I’m kind of curious if we go back and have you hopefully, Diana, as a guest maybe a couple years from now? How you’re going to be using this laser technology any differently than you are right now and also, I would love to see this as a tool that a lot more people use Chinese medicine, practitioners and functional medicine practitioners in general using it. 

Diana DaGrosa: Yes, absolutely! I look forward to talking to you in a few years and giving you all the updates. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Is there any wisdom or nuggets piece of advice you want to leave us with before we wrap up?

Diana DaGrosa: I would say that don’t forget to use the laser on the biggest nerve that is a huge one. I’m just, I could talk to you forever, but one of the things too is dental. We know that dental can break your bank account so use it on the mouth. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: I’ve never heard of that, how are you using it in the mouth?

Diana DaGrosa: Oh my gosh, extensive listening on any bone. We had a person who had 50% bone loss, we totally helped her within three months to regenerate the bone. We have before and after x-rays, people come in before and after dental surgery and they are recovering exponentially even after having races, you know, they’re in so much pain. We shine five minutes on the mouth, you name it, infection like crazy, dental (x3). 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Wow, that’s so cool. I’ve never heard of that before, you’re the first person that mentioned it but all makes total sense. It’s just not a body part area we’ve explored. That makes a lot of sense and I have to imagine for like cavitations and for these sort of subacute infections that people have in their mouth, that has a systemic effect. I imagine that obviously that’s very detrimental to your overall mental health, but I never never considered laser therapy as a way to resolve that. 

Diana DaGrosa: Oh amazing, blow you away!

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s so incredible, awesome. Well, Diana, we sure appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be here with us. This has been really fascinating and really enjoyable to hear kind of your experiences and your expertise. And for docs, we hope likewise that this has been incredibly valuable for you as well and we look forward to sharing more with you guys on upcoming episodes. Have an amazing day! We’ll talk to you guys later. 



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