Dr. Chad Woolner: Welcome to Miracle Mondays, a brand new segment of the laser light show focused exclusively on practitioners’ and patients’ amazing, and sometimes even unbelievable stories that are occurring each and every day all across the country. We hope that you really enjoy these. And hopefully, you can see that miracles are occurring all around us each and every day. These are the amazing things we get to hear, and now you get to hear as well. So we hope you enjoy Miracle Mondays. What’s happening, everybody, Dr. Chad Woolner here with Dr. Andrew Wells. And on today’s episode of the laser light show, we have with us special guest Dr. Brady Wirick. And we’re super excited to be able to chat with him and be able to find out some cool things that he’s doing out in eastern Idaho. So let’s get to it.
Transcript
Speakers:
Dr. Andrew Wells
Dr. Chad Woolner
Dr. Brady Wirick
Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry; they would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music from the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica. They were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is at helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner, along with my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the laser light show. Welcome to the show, everybody. We are so excited. And welcome to the show, Dr. Wirick, Thanks for being here.
Dr. Brady Wirick: It is an absolute honor. And I have to say that I’m not a movie star. I’m not a racecar driver. But I’ve been in practice for 17 years, I own a laser and I know how to use it. So there you go.
Dr. Chad Woolner: There you go. So yeah, we’re super excited to have you. For everybody listening, this is going to be just a slightly different modified format of the show in that what we’re doing is we are introducing our first installment of what we are calling Miracle Mondays. And the whole point behind Miracle Mondays is, in addition to kind of all the fun stuff that we get to talk about on the show normally, in addition to that, what we’re doing is we’re gonna dive into some of the personal stories that practitioners and patients have experienced in terms of the miracles that they’ve seen. And the reason why we want to be very deliberate and very intentional, why we’re doing this is because if we purely stick to what has been FDA cleared, and or what the research says, there’s still a significant amount of experiences that would be neglected, you know, and we want to make sure that people really hear the full spectrum, so to speak, of experiences that practitioners and patients are having. And we want to be very clear too and saying, you know that we’re not making any sort of claims, you know, that, hey, what we’re saying is, this laser is going to cure your XYZ or whatever, but rather, still share some of these really profound and cool and probably, in some cases, even unexplainable experiences that people have had with lasers. And we know that Dr. Wirick has been using lasers for quite some time in his practice. And so he was, he was a really good fit in terms of kicking off our first miracle Monday because we know that he’s got tons of these stories and experiences to share. So again, thanks for being here with us, Dr. Wirick. We’re super excited to have you.
Dr. Brady Wirick: I’m excited. Thanks for having me, this is really cool. And it’s actually an honor for me. You know when you’re talking about, you know, we’re not making claims, I’m going to tell you exactly what I tell every single one of my patients before we do anything is and especially with laser, like, look, we have this modality available to us that can greatly improve the ability for your cells to produce energy. Now, for some people, it’s going to be an absolute miracle. Like you’ll notice things that you’ve that are going to surprise you. But there’s also people they don’t notice anything at all. So you’re gonna fit somewhere in that spectrum. And I think it’s that way across the board. I mean, I’ve been doing this a long time, and we’ve all seen those people that just don’t respond, and frankly, they don’t respond to anything. But then we’ve seen those people that are just like holy crap, what did we just do and but there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation for it. Yeah.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, and you mentioned that you’re not a celebrity but you are a little bit of a celebrity. You’re an advocate, says note Were the for our listeners as you were the the first board-certified chiropractic neurologist in your area. And so that’s, that’s in the Wyoming, Idaho, Utah area. And so that’s significant. And so when we’re talking about these stories, you know, a lot of the docs that listen to this and even patients and that listeners want to know like, what kind of doctor are you? How do you practice? What types of patients are you seeing? And I think that, you know, it’s helpful in providing some context for the types of results you’re seeing and the types of patients you’re working with. So you are in our, in our world, you’re a celebrity that matters.
Dr. Brady Wirick: For a second there, I thought you’re gonna reference the fact that Dr. Garry uses one of my videos in his lectures now.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, that’s cool.
Dr. Andrew Wells: So you’re getting all the royalty checks from that? I’m assuming. So not only are you famous, but you’re also massively wealthy.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Rich and famous.
Dr. Brady Wirick: It’s piling up as far as sticky notes on my desk.
Dr. Chad Woolner: He’s lasering his wrist because it’s so sore from signing checks. Exactly.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Isn’t that what it’s all about here? That’s not about miracle stories. It’s about you.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. So you’re in Idaho Falls. Is that right?
Dr. Brady Wirick: I am. I am.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay. And we, you had said prior to us getting on the show that if we’re going to talk for four or five hours, just bring up fishing. But I do know that you’re an avid fly fisherman, is that correct?
Dr. Brady Wirick: Yes, that is. That is true.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So yeah, I love fishing myself. I wouldn’t claim to be a great fisherman. I said prior to the show, starting the key to fishing is going with people that know how to fish. That’s my secret to fishing. But I absolutely do love it. And it’s in fact, who was it that I was just talking to, which is one of those like when you hear this, the quote-unquote studies that are produced or whatever. And it’s like such a no doubt punch line, they were saying something about how one of the fastest ways to help reset hormone imbalances is getting more out in nature. And there’s like a new study shows and we’re like, kind of like, that’s cool, but
Dr. Andrew Wells: It was kind of the study says at the end if you don’t know what nature is, that’s when you go outside.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Anyway, so yeah, fishing.
Dr. Brady Wirick: That’s funny because what I usually tell people is the key, the root to all hormone issues is actually fixing their blood sugar, which is a big part of what our practices here. We have a metabolic reset program that I advertised as a weight loss program because that’s what people will pick up the phone and call for. Yeah, but that’s a line that I use often. And now I’m going to start using the if you want to fix it get out in nature because you know, circadian rhythms, everything else. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So it’s actually fishing that brought me to Idaho Falls. Don’t tell anybody this, but I was born and raised in Utah. But I’ve been here for 17 years now. So I claim Idaho. When I was doing my undergrad before chiropractic school, I was actually a fishing guide. Oh, wow. So I did that for a few years. And then when I went to chiropractic school, my drift boat went into my grandma’s garage. And then when it came time to pick where I wanted to practice, I’m like, Hmm, if I can go back to Ogden, then my boat’s gonna be about four hours from getting it in the water. If we go to Idaho Falls, then we’ve worked 20, 40 minutes depending on where we go. Yeah, you’re not gonna be back for dinner. So to me, it was a no-brainer. So I just came out of school, opened my own practice and off we go.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, Andrew was prior to us talking with you. He’s like, where is Idaho Falls in relation to Yellowstone? And I was like, it’s a really relatively short drive between Idaho Falls and Yellowstone and Jackson Hole and all that whole area, and it’s truly a beautiful place.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Andrew, my half my driveway is 108 miles from the West Gate Yellowstone.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Wow, that’s amazing. I’m jealous.
Dr. Brady Wirick: If you count the southeast corner, we’re about 60. But there’s not a main entrance there. Everything from there, you have to hike or ski and,
Dr. Andrew Wells: Man. Yeah, that’s awesome.
Dr. Chad Woolner: So how did you get in contact? When did you first start learning about Erchonia Lasers? When did you start using them in practice? Tell us a little bit about that story.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Well, we got to turn the wayback time machine on this one. Okay. It was actually in chiropractic school. So I went to Cairo. I went to Texas chiropractic college. I graduated in ’06. And if you remember what was happening in ’06. That’s when Lance Armstrong was on his tyrant of victories. And I don’t care what you say. If everybody’s cheating, right. Everybody’s cheating. Go Astros. So, you hear about this guy called Jeff Spencer. Erchonia’s got people coming to my school? Like I don’t know if they were like, sanctioned by Erchonia or not, but they’re doing all these cool things with laser. I’m like, hey, yeah, that’s kind of cool. Then I get out and I come out here open my practice. And yeah, some sales rep for another laser company gets his hooks into me and I bought another laser. So, knowing what I know now about the possible photothermal effects of lasers that are above class to this story kind of concerns me. That’s all right. But I’m gonna tell it anyway. I had a patient that was coming in for chronic migraines, and I looked up her, you know, some imaging that she had. And lo and behold, she’s missing a whole branch of her circle of Willis. Wow. So she’s got a very distinct blood flow issue going into her brain so she’s not going to get and I don’t remember the specifics, or I don’t remember where it was at or whatever. I know, I lasered over her parietal lobe. And we saw dramatic results.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Wow.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Like, she stopped passing out. She stopped having migraines, just from doing laser over now, again, me telling that story today, knowing what I now know. scares the crap out of me. I can’t believe I did that. It worked out great for her. Do not try that at home. Right. Right. So that was kind of my first like, holy cow moment. You know, I’ve had other lasers in my career that I was using for neuropathy and other things. And then I actually had a chance to, to go help with a multidisciplinary clinic that was a startup clinic. And they had what I called a Tim the tool, man laser. Those are the more people Yeah, well, they had this monstrosity of this thing that was
Dr. Andrew Wells: Borrowed from the Darth Vader’s Deathstar.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Right. They had a handheld version of a blah, blah, blah. And I like I actually burnt a lady’s hair off with a handheld laser. Oh my Wow, sir. lasering her neck and then that smell of burnt hair.
Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s how you know it’s working. That’s when you tell them, Hey, what’s that smell? Don’t worry. Don’t look at that.
Dr. Brady Wirick: I’m not gonna bore you with the details. Unless, you know, you’re in the front of my drift boat. But that was a hint chat.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I’m ready. I’m ready.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Things started kind of going. I don’t know if they’re gonna weird at that clinic. I don’t even know what other other way to explain it. And last March. It was March. So five years previous to that I’d gone to an IFNR seminar in Arizona. And Kirk. Kirk was the instructor. So Dr. Garrett was the instructor and was one of the instructors for this. So I went to his seminar. You know, lasers are cool. I see what they do. Blah, blah, blah. Again, not really resonating with me, right? I’m just like, Yeah, whatever. That’s cool. They do good work. Okay. It wasn’t until last year, about March, that they had a seminar. And it was Kurt Garr. And it was Dan Murph, Dr. Dan Murphy, putting on this seminar in Salt Lake. So I’m like, Okay, I need hours. This seminar is not expensive, and it’s not far away. And lo and behold, I’m coming back from a mountain bike trip that weekend, I’ll just stay in Salt Lake and I’ll go to the seminar. And I literally said to myself, it’s if it sucks, then I can just sign myself and I’m leaving Sunday night, it took a bat. Well, the seminar hadn’t even started yet. And Dr. Murphy gets up there and starts doing what Dr. Murphy does, which is like just shuffling through mountains of research in a way that’s understandable and passionate. And I’m like, Okay, I’m in the right place. And then 10 minutes after the official start time, I’m just sitting there thinking to myself, holy crap, if I would have known Dan Murphy was a guy. I would have totally changed where I went to chiropractic school, just so I can have classes with him.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. Yeah, he’s a pretty remarkable instructor. Pretty, pretty gifted individual.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, yeah, he was. He was one of the first guys when I was in chiropractic school. I had heard of him through John Donne off Rio. And he was saying, and Dr. Dinajpur was like if you ever have a chance to just study with Dr. Murphy, like do that because he’s amazing. And then I looked him up and I started listening to some of his recordings. And that was like one of the first times as a student I’m like, being a chiropractor is awesome. Like, like look at all the cool things we can do like he was one of the guys that kind of lit that flame for me early on in my chiropractic career.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Yeah, that’s, and he’s still at it. He’s huge and a doctor to offer another like amazing individual but that was it was life changing painful in that morning, and then Kurt gets up there now. Now meanwhile, all this is going on, right, and I’ve got this. I’ve got a son that 17 now so he’s 16 At the time, and he’s a tracks done. Right his very first meet, he’d never run a 400 before he gets up there and takes like third. Well, like two weeks into the season, his knees start to ache. A and then he gets about the fourth week of the season. He’s literally in tears before he’s crossing the finish line. His knees hurt so bad. So all this is happening before the seminar, I did not go to the seminar thinking I’m going to find the answers for this kid. Hey, well, I found answers for this kid. And what I ended up doing well, he goes through and he does everything else, right? Does the imaging goes and sees the orthopedic I’m thinking, you know, I’ve got a regenerative medicine clinic. We could put stem cells in his knees. We could do PRP for him. There’s no freaking inflammation in the knee. Something else is going on. I didn’t understand it. Well, long story short, I go to the seminar. I buy a IVERL, which one is this EVRL, I buy this guy and book tickets to go see Kirk in California. And we go down. And Kirk helps me quickly realize that this is like a neuromuscular reeducation thing. And we’ve got aberrant firing going to sometimes it’s the medial muscles. Sometimes it’s the lateral muscles. So sometimes it’s all these different answers from different PTS they were all right because this thing keeps shifting around. Anyway, we solve the problem. We use the laser to reincorporate some of those muscles, getting back into training and track season starts. Next week, and we are hopefully the opposite. optimistic. What’s the word? I’m looking for one there? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we’re very optimistic. It’s gonna be great for this kid because he’s been training like an animal. And, you know, he looks like the Hulk.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I feel for him. So I want to highlight something you just shared that I think is really cool for the audience to kind of clue into. And that is, the way in which the lasers helped to fix the problem is probably different than a lot of what people would oftentimes assume. Because so often, we assume that the mechanism, because it’s probably the most common mechanism, we assume is inflammation is what’s driving the pain, right. And so we know that these lasers help reduce inflammation. That’s a pretty, you know, one other FDA clearance. Right, right. Yeah, exactly. And yet, that wasn’t in your son’s case, what was driving the problem? And so what you’re saying there is you were able to use the lasers to really change neurological firing patterns or neurological pathways, in essence, which is really kind of cool to think about that. Because what it does is it at least opens the door to the conversation. Will how many other ways can these lasers be used? Right, because Trevor berry jokingly refers to the lasers as jet and lightsabers, I would say that you could call them like, Swiss Army lasers, right? Where it’s like, literally, it’s like so many cars, I guarantee you there’s way a ton of other different mechanisms and ways in which these lasers are operating and can be utilized that we probably just don’t even fully readily realize or recognize yet. Right,
Dr. Andrew Wells: right. Yeah, that’s a great point. Because the beauty of lasers, as you know, Erchonia lasers, particularly as you can, you’re not going to harm somebody. And so you can turn them on, you can wave, you know, put them on the setting, wave them over the area, and it’ll do its thing. And sometimes I hear providers saying like, hey, you know, and you mentioned this at the beginning of the podcast, like on some patients that work some patients, maybe it doesn’t work, or you don’t get the benefit that you’re looking for, or the outcome you’re looking for. But the argument to that is, well, maybe there are ways to use a laser that you haven’t thought of. Right. And that’s to your point. I think that’s what you’re saying is exactly, you know, this is why it’s important to plug into events that Erchonia’s putting on plug into their speakers because there’s an immense amount of information you can learn from your Dan Murphy’s and your Kurt Garrison, you’re Trevor berries and your Brandon Brock’s, like those are the people who will teach you how to use your lightsaber and then become the Jedi. Right? It’s not the lightsaber. It’s the you know, science part of it is the lightsaber. But also part of its
Dr. Chad Woolner: It’s how it’s exactly not just the lasers, but how the practitioner or the user of it, how it’s being used. Yeah, that the the approach for sure. Yeah, great point. So
Dr. Brady Wirick: I’m glad I’m glad you mentioned Brandon Brock. Because when I was taking the neuro courses in chiropractic school, he was our primary teacher that would come down to Houston and teach the courses. That dude is on a different planet, different wavelength all together when it comes to just pure, absolute unadulterated genius to get Brandon Brock on one side of the spectrum, and then you got guys like me on the other side of the spectrum and we’re kind of Some, like, you know, rednecks, hey, hold my beer kind of thing. And that’s, you know, that Kurt calls it an art form to this. And I absolutely agree with him like, yeah, you’re not going to know unless you try and you’re not going to hurt anything. Now, the caveat to that is iShares crap wouldn’t be aiming this directly into somebody’s retina. But like my son, another one of my sons came to me yesterday, he’s like, Hey, with laser help with the culture. I’m like, Yes, it will. So he sat there and was sore for him.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. My, what were you gonna say? Sorry?
Dr. Brady Wirick: No, go ahead.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I was just gonna say I can totally relate to your son, my son is really big into track as well. And that’s something he took to him. He’s 17, he just turned 17 as well. So he’s, this year, he’s finishing up well, this will be his junior year running. So his third year doing track edits High School. So we’re, we’re really excited. We’ve been using lasers with him quite a bit as well. But it’s exciting to see him excel at this sport. And he’s, he’s, we signed him up for one of those online. College Prep, recruiting, it’s I don’t even remember what it was called. But we signed him up for it. We paid a bunch of money so that he could basically be better positioned with coaches and stuff. So it’s really cool to see some of the interactions that he’s having with coaches that are seeing him kind of going through the ranks.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Send me a link for that. Check it out.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, yeah, I don’t remember the name, but I’ll get it to you for sure. Yeah. It’s one of those online programs. But
Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, and also, how many stories have you heard from Doc’s who bought a laser for personal use? Oh, total for themselves for their kids? A lot of time for the kids? Yeah,
Dr. Brady Wirick: That’s a perfect segue to go back to the story because now here I am. Okay. Nick Collins knee is improving. Now, there’s several, there’s a lot of money gone out of my savings account. What do I do with this? Right. So I very much bought this for personal use. But there’s the business side of me that says, All right, now we got to figure this thing out. Because there’s a lot of money sitting here. Yeah. Right. So and I’ve heard people say, over the years that you know, these products sell themselves, well guess what they literally do? Yeah, just find little ways to incorporate it. And you find little ways to, hey, let’s try this with you. And then you start having those aha moments of those aha moments, start referring to other aha moments, Which takes me to the next miracle story I wanted to tell you about. I get I get a call from my accountant of all people. And he’s got a 30 year old daughter that goes in to have a vein stripped in her leg. Has a flammig stroke. Oh, man. Oh, geez. Right. So this girl is literally a CPA. She’s taking care of three young children all under the age of 10. One of them being down syndrome, a run in a household and working to take care of his kids all of sudden she can’t function. And she’s being told that oh, you you might recover. You might not. That’s it a some I got both. Okay. The caveat of this, the hitch to the story is she lives south of Salt Lake City, so she does not live here. She can’t drive herself. So long story short, mom goes gets her brings her up here. And we literally just start treating what we find, right? That’s the carrot. Dr. Gary talks about all that all the time. She’s got some smell deficiencies. So we start using smell while I Blaze her right over the filament. Like I can see it on the imaging that clears day there’s where the stroke was. So we start just lasering over that is we start layering and different smells different, you know, complex movements on the opposite side. And she was up here for like three days. And I saw her six times over that three days. So she had come to the office during the day and she came to my house at night. Just so we could get more treatment and it did not take long at all for a normal function to return. Wow.
Dr. Andrew Wells: When you say normal function, what do you mean by that?
Dr. Brady Wirick: Like for her to start feeling human again. Wow. And being able to have clear thoughts at work and not snapping and losing and our kids and she’s been for her it was one of those absolute miraculous stories. Yeah, she’d still just be sitting there going. I wonder if I’m going to recover. Wow,
Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s after six visits six that Yeah. That’s crazy. Well,
Dr. Brady Wirick: So then she comes. She’s been up here one other time like that over the Christmas break. I wasn’t I usually don’t work between Christmas and New Year’s, but I just have her come to my house to visit a friend of mine. And the same type of the same type of stuff and just gets better and better. And she’s dang near back to normal now. Wow.
Dr. Chad Woolner: How long ago was this?
Dr. Brady Wirick: This is back to the started. So the stroke was last April. Okay. I started with the first time in November 2 time in December.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, well, and the thing, that’s incredible too, you know, as they talk about stroke, being all about the timing, right, you know, in terms of like your, your prognosis dramatically, either goes up or goes down, depending upon how long post stroke, you’re able to receive treatment. And I completely acknowledge and I’m so grateful for emergency medicine, that is able to help them, you know, immediately following. The thing that I would say, though, that most people aren’t aware of is most people, conventional medicine and conventional approaches, tend to look at post stroke rehab, through a fairly narrow limited lens, it’s like, you know, we’re gonna get you with some type of rehabilitative specialists who’s going to do some different exercises with you. And hopefully, things improve. It’s kind of like almost like, at least the way I perceive it as a roll of the dice. We’ll see what happens and hope things go Okay.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Here’s the problem, that lens is a box like this. Right? And that lens is framed, aimed by what Medicare what insurance will pay for. Right, right, exactly. And that that frame is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Yeah, based off of, quote, unquote, research when there’s all this stuff outside the box that you can do for these people. Yeah, throw traumatic brain injury. If you want a story about that I had a lady that was on the weight loss program. She did my weight loss program. She had gone all the way through and she lost a tremendous amount of weight. It was doing great on an E bike in California. And doesn’t remember not at all, like she at some point fell off the bike hitter had spent two something weeks in a rehab center in California comes back up. But she’s like, Well, can I go back on your drops? Because I’m gaining a little bit of the weight back on my Whoa, whoa, whoa, timeout. The drops your weight is not the issue right now. Yeah. And we’re after one laser treatment with her. We had her sleeping through the night. Wow. And you know, and then we just subsequent ones after that. She’s kept improving, improving, improving. So when it comes to neuro when it comes to stroke, when it comes to traumatic brain injury, we are onto something huge here. Yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, the thing that I keep thinking and all of this having interviewed so many different practitioners, and patients alike, the common denominator, the common theme that seems to be coming up every time we talk about these is people have these experiences that you can’t unsee you know that like once you’ve once you’ve kind of seen what you’ve seen it more often than not leave such a profound impression. You know, I’ve at our clinic, we have a whole host of and I’m sure you’re probably the same. We have a whole host of different gadgets and tools and gizmos that we’ve used. We’re not at any. We’re not lacking in terms of tools and things like that. We’ve got so many of them. And some have been more useful and more valuable than others. But we can clearly say hands down, we have yet to see a tool that has had the same level of impact, as the lasers have had just there’s no comparison, no comparison. Other than I would say the only thing that compares is the chiropractic adjustment itself. That’s the only thing in my experience clinically, that would be in the same realm in terms of dramatic improvement that you see. And that doesn’t surprise me personally. So
Dr. Brady Wirick: I totally agree. And you know, you say that and then again, you’re providing me with another perfect segue into the two stories. I want to tell you last Yeah. It’s almost like we scripted this but I promise you we did not. One of the tools that I’ve got in my quiver, as I talked about before, is stem cell therapy and regenerative medicine. They so I’ve been at this since 2018 You know, multidisciplinary clinic. We’ve got nurse practitioners that do these injections for us. And we have seen some absolute miracles when it comes to arthritis and joint pain. Yeah. Now what I’m about to tell you, if some of my colleagues Hear what I’m about to tell you it’s gonna piss piss them off. But it is the honest truth. A when people come in to me for stem cells and low back pain, the conversation used to be well yeah, we can inject stem cells. into the muscles above where the spine where the issue is, like, where the stenosis or where the arthritis is. And then we hope and pray because if this was a knee, if this is arthritis in your knee, we have an encapsulated joint that we’ve got about an 80% chance of helping you fix that, but into the back, we’re gonna get more 50/50. That used to be the conversation. Hey, now the conversation is. And I hate admitting this, because it’s, I’m not gonna say I’ve lost money because of it. But now the conversation is I’ve seen better results with the laser for low back pain. And before we jump into injections, I would much rather than run you through a series of 10 to 12 treatments with this laser, to see if we can get results without using the injections, because I’ve seen better results with the laser. And I stand behind that. A case in point, I’ve got a guy his name was John, he lost. I think he started a weight loss program. Weight Loss guy with us. He’s like 78 years old. And that’s 45 pounds. Wow, holy cow. Well, when you lose that amount of weight, it’s gonna mess with how your cerebellum talks to your back. And it’s gonna mess with joint biomechanics. All of a sudden, he’s like, I my back pains back like my back’s killing me. What can you do? I, you know, we look at imaging, blah, blah, blah. I run him through a course with just the laser based off of what the FDA clearance says. And lo and behold, I see him walking in the mall like, Hey, John, how’s your back? And my back hasn’t felt as good as my 20s. Wow. And that was just from laser.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Wow. And that’s at age 78, right? A 70-year-old saying that their back feels as good as when they were in their 20s. That’s amazing. That’s incredible. Awesome.
Dr. Brady Wirick: Yeah, you can meet him. And then the last one, the other thing that’s happened as well, which is kind of funny is I had this gentleman approach me. He become a friend of mine. And he comes, he’s, he comes up to me after a meeting. He’s like, ‘What can we do about my shoulder?’ And I said, ‘Well, I got a few minutes, let’s go pull your imaging up.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, I mean, you’re a perfect candidate to have a stem cell injection. But you can tell he wasn’t, he wasn’t what sort of before. He wasn’t totally on board. Sure. So before we jump to that, let’s just try this laser, right? Because people who respond well to the laser will oftentimes respond well to a stem cell injection, because you’re ramping up your own body’s natural healing mechanisms. I hit him with one laser treatment that I didn’t charge him for. And all of a sudden, he’s got full range of motion back in zero pain.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, the thing that I would say to this, that we’ve experienced in our clinic too, because we have an integrated clinic as well. We’ve done regenerative medicine, and my experience, and you tell me, Brady, if this has been your experience as well, the concern that a lot of patients have when it comes to regenerative medicine is, like many interventions is, ‘Okay, we’re going to kind of cross our fingers, go through this procedure and hope that it works out.’ Because it’s not a guarantee versus the proposition of the laser is let’s do one treatment. And, you know, even if they’re paying for that treatment, you know, depending upon what you’re charging, you know, worst-case scenario, let’s say you’re really charging a lot $200, $250 for a session or whatever versus, you know, potentially a couple $1,000 for a regenerative medicine procedure program. Many, if not most, can see some sort of objective improvement, right, with just one session of the laser. And again, this was, this was told to me by Penny. If you’ve met Pat, I’m assuming you know, Penny Sneed, she’s, she’s amazing. She said to me, and at first I kind of like mentally rolled my eyes a little bit. I wasn’t bought. She said, ‘90% of your patients will see some type of improvement with just one one treatment.’ ‘90%’ And I’m like, in my mind, I’m like, really? 90%? That has held true. The vast majority will notice, now again, what does that mean in terms of some type of improvement? That doesn’t mean 100% resolution. That doesn’t mean, you know, but I would say more often than not it’s significant. It’s it’s so much enough. So again, and so my whole point in sharing this is that the thing that’s so cool that I found about the lady sors versus so many other different modalities and or interventions is that so so often, many of these other approaches require the patient to invest a significant amount of faith into a potential future outcome. Versus with the lasers. They don’t have to really do that. Sometimes they do. But more often than not, it’s like, ‘Hey, let’s just do,’ and similar to you what we do more often than not, especially if it’s an established patient, is we’ll do the first laser treatment for free. I’m not confident like I’m like, ‘Yeah, let’s just because then that way, it’s 100%, risk-free for them. It’s like, worst thing that can happen is, you don’t really notice much at all. That’s the worst-case scenario. And they’re like, ‘Yeah, that makes sense. That’s cool.’ And they do it. But again, more often than not our experiences, they’re like, ‘Okay, yeah, sign me up, whatever the package is. I know this thing works, that’s cool. So therefore, their confidence goes up, rather than them again, it’s because again, if I were the consumer, if the roles were reversed, I would feel the same way. It’s like, ‘I don’t want to slap down $5,000 for the possibility,’ you know, or whatever it is, you know, it’s like, ‘Okay, I hope that this goes, okay. You know, yeah,’
Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s when he started talking about this, we did a lot of regenerative medicine as well, and we do our, we do injections for patients, and the patients would come back for a re exam and, you know, progress evaluation. And I always, like, I always got really nervous on those visits because I was like, crossing my fingers, like, you know, it’s been a month, like, I really, really, really hope they get have had a good experience because they just spent a lot of money. And if they don’t, I’m gonna feel really bad. And I don’t want to have that conversation. And more often than not, we had really good results, and patients were happy. But we did have patients who like, ‘Hey, I spent a bunch of money, I don’t feel any different.’ And then it’s like, like, well, you know, we tried, but like that was, that’s all we had, like, I don’t I don’t really know what to do at that point. And so, and we, I wasn’t aware of laser therapy back then. And I really kicking myself that I hadn’t figured that out. Because that’s, you know, to the point here, if, if the patient, let’s say, has spent 250 bucks, and they come back and they’re not feeling any better, well, it’s like, well, crap, we tried, but they’re not going to, you know, they don’t have to remortgage their house. And that’s a much easier conversation. And then you also have other alternatives and things you can do if it didn’t work. But yeah, that’s good, good on you for taking that approach.
Dr. Brady Wirick: And as a positive note, you know, I did We did two injections yesterday. A, and those people will be coming back for follow-up care with the laser. Because we know lasers initiate a stem cell response, we know they improve blood flow. Why? Why the hell would you not do that for someone? Yeah, make sure that you did your absolute best. So six months from now, if they come to you and said I spent a bunch of money, and I didn’t see results? You can sleep at night? Because you did your absolute best. Yeah, we’re very forthright with them. And I tell people all the time, like this might be the end, I say this with a laser to this might be the best money you’ve ever spent. Or this might not. This might have do nothing at all. And at least you tried. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s the, that we used to teach. We still teach practitioners, you know, in terms of proper communication, especially as it pertains to handling finances with patients. And one of the things that I tried to help articulate and explain to practitioners is, it’s not just the loss of the money when if a patient pays you and doesn’t get a result, what it what it often is more so than the money, but it’s never fun to lose money. No one ever wants to lose money. But what’s equally, if not more, so the problem is, is the loss of face so to speak. No one, no one ever wants to feel like they were taken. Right. And that’s the conversation that these patients have to have with spouses, friends, family members, is, you know, because they’re there, everybody’s sitting on the sidelines waiting to see, you know, it’s like the drum roll, you know, they, they, they go, they know they’re seeing Brady over his clinic chat at his clinic, Andrew and his clinic, you know, and everybody’s waiting on the sidelines. And then, you know, a month goes by and they’re like, ‘Okay, you know, you spent that you dropped that investment on that, quote, unquote, thing that you did, how did it go?’ And, you know, if it is, heaven forbid, one of those instances where the patient just doesn’t get a result, they did. They’re not just out the money. They’re also out the status that comes with it to that loss of status in terms of like, ‘Yep, well, Janet, she got taken, she got taken out when I tell you, I tell or I did. I did. I told you I told you not to you know, and that’s like just throwing salt in the wound, you know, for a lot of these people. And so that’s the, the thing that I’m very sensitive of is not just the loss of, of money, it but it’s also everything else socially that comes along with bit as well. And again, that’s just such a cool thing about these lasers is giving people the opportunity to kind of, quote unquote, try before you buy, you know, give them that chance. And again, more often than not they get to experience some really, really cool stuff very quickly, which is just so exciting. To me. That’s just so exciting about these lasers. So incredible. So.
Dr. Andrew Wells: Have you figured out a way to incorporate fly fishing and lasers? Because we know lasers are good for everything.
Dr. Brady Wirick: I have laser people, I’ve lasered guides on a boat ramp, having really, that’s amazing.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I’m curious as to how cool would that be to have lasering them while they’re they’re doing their fly fishing motion and stuff like that. Really, really cool.
Dr. Brady Wirick: So this guy, I guided him, you know, back in the early 2000s. And when I was leaving to go to chiropractic school, he was razzing me saying, ‘Hey, why are you going to school? Why are you going to college?’ I just looked at him. I said, ‘Ed, because someday you will be my guide.’ And that kind of like, ended the conversation, right? Well, fast forward to probably 16 I’ve ran into him at a boat ramp up here on the Snake River. And we reconnected and he’s been like, my fishing guy ever since. Like, we fish all the time together. And I can send you most of the big fish. All of the big fish pictures that I have on Facebook are somehow related to add he was there in some form or fashion. That’s amazing. So this guy’s been at it for 30 something years. He’s a self-proclaimed person who’s flooded the canyon here in the south for the most trips down that river. Yeah, human history. And he could probably back that up. Wow. He’s He’s hated because of how good he is. But he’s also been rolling a drift boat for 30 years, which means stenosis in his next analysis in his shoulders. Yeah, he’ll tell you that he’s down to seven years left on the battery of his pacemaker. And I’m a pretty strong dude, like I avidly do CrossFit four or five times a week. And this cat can roll me under the table. Wow. It’s not even like there’s no contest. He just destroys me. And well, subsequently, like he responds very, very well to the laser. So there’ll be days that are mid-season, like he’ll go from late May until mid-August and not have a day off. And he starts to lock up and he can’t, it’s killing him. So he’ll call me or text me and be like, ‘How can we need the laser.’ So I’ve met him. I’ve met him getting off the river with clients right there on the boat ramp. I’ve met him at the dinner at the Southfork Lodge and lasered in for dinner, brings the cookout relays with I just, yes, I have figured it out is what I’m getting. I love that. That’s incredible. And then he’ll have clients that, you know, at the end of like three days in a row with him. They’re having issues with their elbow or their shoulder and he’ll give him my cell phone number, and they’ll come in before they go home and we let him and send him home.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. Absolutely incredible. Well, Brady, we really appreciate you taking time to share this with us. You know, this miracle Monday turned out to be miracles Monday, which is good. That’s what we like. We like to hear a lot of these stories. And so we really appreciate it. We appreciate the work that you’re doing out there to help a lot of people. And any final thoughts, Andrew,
Dr. Andrew Wells: If you need a fly fishing place that also offers laser therapy, Idaho Falls. Dr. Wircik is the guy to see. Yeah, yeah, you know, we really do appreciate this because I think Docs need to hear these stories. If they are laser owners, if they’re not laser owners, this is such a Yeah, such a multipurpose tool that you can use in your practice for so many different things. And I like to actually say one of my favorite stories is the last story you shared, like you’re using this at the boat ramp and like just helping your friends and helping people in your community. That’s what as healthcare providers, that’s what you want to do is to help the people we love not just our patients, but the people around us. And I think that’s an amazing way to kind of end this podcast and we really thank you so much for sharing your experiences with a laser and and being also our first celebrity guest who’s also the first miracle Monday you were there first and lots of ways. There you go. Now that you’re the first miracle Monday,
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s right, cast episode. So, all right, everybody. Well, thank you for tuning into this episode. We appreciate you being here with us and look forward to share more with you on the next episode. Again, thanks for being here with us. Dr. Wirick. We’ll talk to you guys later.
Dr. Brady Wirick: It’s been a blast.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers just head on over to Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as our Erchonia E community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.
About The Guest(s):
Dr. Brady Wirick has been a chiropractor since 2006, and is the first board-certified chiropractic neurologist in the Wyoming, Idaho, Utah area. With a keen interest in the effectiveness of stem cell therapy and regenerative medicine, Dr. Wirick dives into the nuances of incorporating Low-Level Laser therapy in his practice.
Summary:
Dr. Brady Wirick discusses their experience with stem cell therapy and regenerative medicine in a multidisciplinary clinic since 2018. He emphasizes the success seen in treating arthritis and joint pain but confesses a shift in perspective when seeing a 50/50 pass through rate. Dr. Wirick admits to now favoring laser treatments over stem cell injections for low back pain, expressing confidence in the laser’s efficacy.
Key Takeaways:
Find out how a chiropractic neurologist loses faith in traditional medicinal practices and turns towards laser treatments in treating arthritis and joint pain.
Quotes:
“…If this is arthritis in your knee, we have an encapsulated joint that we’ve got about an 80% chance of helping you fix that, but into the back, we’re gonna get more 50/50. That used to be the conversation. Hey, now the conversation is…I’ve seen better results with the laser for low back pain.” -Dr. Brady Wirick
“Does the imaging goes and sees the orthopedic I’m thinking, you know, I’ve got a regenerative medicine clinic. We could put stem cells in his knees. We could do PRP for him. There’s no freaking inflammation in the knee. Something else is going on….I buy a IVERL…And Kirk helps me quickly realize that this is like a neuromuscular reeducation thing….we use the laser to reincorporate some of those muscles, getting back into training and track season starts.” -Dr. Brady Wirick
“She stopped having migraines, just from doing laser over now, again, me telling that story today, knowing what I now know. scares the crap out of me. I can’t believe I did that.” -Dr. Brady Wirick
