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Podcast Episode #57: From Tragedy to Triumph with Dr. Joseph Schneider

laser light show

Dr. Chad Woolner: All right. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner here along with my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells. On today’s episode of the laser light show, we have a special guest, Dr. Joseph Schneider. We’re really excited to chat with him. He’s an incredible physician who has been helping a lot of patients and doing many amazing things. So we’re excited to dig in and have this conversation with him. Let’s get started. 




Dr. Andrew Wells

Dr. Chad Woolner

Dr. Joseph Schneider


Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music from the Beatles to Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, and Metallica. They were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field, obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner, along with my good friend, Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the laser light show. All right, everybody. Welcome to the show. And welcome to the show, Dr. Schneider. We’re so excited to have you here with us.

Explore how the future of medicine is shifting towards differing modalities in Forecasting the Next 20 Years of Low-Light Laser Therapy in Medicine


Dr. Joseph Schneider: I really appreciate being with such great practitioners and coaches. And you guys have been a real inspiration for me, seeing the kind of work that you do.


Dr. Chad Woolner: We appreciate that. Yeah, we’re excited to have you here on the show with us. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about yourself, kind of what you’re doing. I know you’re a functional neurologist. You’ve had decades of experience hands-on in the trenches in a wide range of different areas of brain health, working with kids and adults and everything in between. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about your career and what you’ve been up to.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Well, my career really started early on. At seven, my father passed away from a stroke as a result of uncontrolled diabetes. So my mother, who’s my hero, wanted us to eat right, exercise, you know, do all the natural things so that we wouldn’t suffer the same consequences that my father suffered. And then my aunt had cerebral palsy. She was in a violinist state school. Being the oldest brother, I had to lift her, you know, at nine years old and help her out in the wheelchair, and so forth and so on. So I really got close to brain injury at that point after my father had a stroke. And I spent my life having a great relationship with my aunt, who eventually died at 78 at a violinist state school. So I went to college for physics, and I became an engineer physicist. I made simulators for power plants. The I got back pain from being over the design board all day long designing circuits and trying to create simulators. I went to a chiropractor, Dr. Bill Oliver from Irvington, New Jersey. He was just a dynamic, wonderful doctor. I went to his Spinal Care class, and he said that the brain is the master control system of the body. At the time, I was riding horses for a Texas technical school that trained operators on master control systems for power plants. I’m like, I wouldn’t do that. I wouldn’t do that. I’m gonna do that. So I went in the next day. I told my supervisor, I’m going to chiropractic college. That’s amazing. You’re crazy. You’re nuts. You’re gonna go bankrupt. You’re gonna get poor. You’ll never catch up. It’s just gonna be horrible. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. At the time, someone said, Don’t do it. I just like, again, I’m doing it. So what was that?


Dr. Chad Woolner: What year was this?


Dr. Joseph Schneider: 1982


Dr. Chad Woolner: 1982. Wow. 


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Yeah,


Dr. Andrew Wells: How far were you in your career? As an engineer when you made that decision.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: I graduated in ’79. So I was working for the company. I was a project engineer quite rapidly. Because my supervisor, an engineer supervisor at the time, had a picture-perfect memory. He just read books and he knew it. Wow. I learned from the best early on, and I didn’t want to learn from him because I wanted someone with a degree. I asked him, I said, Why didn’t you ever get your degree? Because I’ve read the book in about 20 minutes. And when I went to class, I already knew it all. So if it was a waste of my money, so I finally decided to work. That’s brilliant. I was like, Okay, I think I want to be brilliant like you, but that wasn’t in the cards. So when I went to New York chiropractic college, I met Dr. Ted Carrick, and Dr. And Apollo, Tiana was the present time and he was a wonderful Upper Cervical chiropractor. And Ted was a friend of Dr. Positano. So when I graduated, I started, and I’m right down the street from WestChester University. Ted was teaching in Westchester. In 1989, I started my studies in neurology and chiropractic. So all through the early ’90s. It wasn’t until 1995 that I sat for my delayed exam. I was board certified in neurology. But so I had a neurology slant in my practice the whole time. And then I was following Dr. Jeffrey bland pretty closely, listening to his tapes, and so forth. So I got really, really good at nutrition and neurology. Through the years, I’ve always wanted to practice that I had a hat now. It’s neurology-based. Every time I get a patient that’s in a wheelchair or can’t walk, I think about my aunt Marie, every time I get a stroke case, I think about my dad. Making an impact with humanity. Using chiropractic first is chiropractic first, neurology, functional neurology second. So we’re very chiropractic-oriented in the practice. Everybody gets adjusted. The upper cervical complex is very important to me. And the operation, not only of the upper cervical is but the brainstem itself. So we’ve developed a kind of a style. Since I was an engineer, technology is near and dear to my heart. That’s where Erchonia came in. When I do something, and I bring technology into the office, I want to know that it’s the right thing at the right amount at the right time. Kind of like, you know, DD Palmer, BJ Palmer concept, right? And then when you get the body what it needs, the right time, the right amount, then you start getting healing. So we know that, and I’m sure you know it very intimately, that our brain and our body are plastic. It really is. Health is plastic. It can be changed, it can be guided. I’m also guided by the principle that the body needs convalescence. Dr. Kerry Bone, for many herbs, which, in his book, on herbs, he talks about convalescence and how the body needs time and the right components to bring it forward to get some healing going. So when we get a sick person in the office, we don’t want to treat them segmentally. What segment, well, they have ADHD, but they have a spot on their chin, so I’m gonna give them a cream to put on their chin. Okay, well, you know, that sounds ridiculous. But it’s also ridiculous that if someone comes in, and they have a visual dysfunction, that visual dysfunction also is intimate with a vestibular dysfunction, which is also intimate with an upper cervical dysfunction. When you combine therapies properly, and you look at the overlap of the nervous system, and you go from segmented care to integrated care, then you’re checking off a list but you’re not really doing that. You’re really looking at a whole spectrum of interactions that happen in the body. Then we know that the nervous system also brings into play the autonomic nervous system. The autonomic nervous system is probably the most powerful aspect of central nervous system control in the body, which goes into the biochemical aspects of it. Also, the neuro-immunology that goes along with it. What we’re trying to do here, and what I’m saying is trying because there’s always a new learning that happens when you’re involved in it, right? I’m sure in your systems that you’ve come up with, there’s always a new learning, and then you change things a little bit more, and then you change things a little bit more. But in that process, it gets better and better. It doesn’t just get better for the business system or the efficiencies in the office. Ultimately, it’s better for the patient. Yeah, absolutely. So the next thing that happens is that chiropractic centers and functional neurology centers have to become research centers and education centers, not just doctor’s offices. Not that a doctor’s office is something marvelous and magnificent, but a Research Education Center would propel us into a modern world better. That’s kind of like my opinion.


Dr. Andrew Wells: I couldn’t agree more with your opinion. And you’ve all had, you know, we laser light show caters mainly to the chiropractic crowd. We have lots of other practitioners as well, MDS and nurse practitioners, acupuncturists. And as three chiropractors on the call here, we’ve all had conversations with Docs who had been in practice for a long time, saying, patients don’t heal as fast as they used to. Just through a chiropractic adjustment, and not to minimize an adjustment, an adjustment is incredibly powerful. If you position that kind of as the top of your heap in terms of therapies that you offer. But I think we have to agree that as chiropractors, we should be leading the conversation on how to integrate, like you mentioned, other therapies, other specialties, other services, from a research standpoint, to help drive better outcomes with patients. Because we’re, you know, as much as chiropractors are to many patients, the be-all in terms of Holistic Health, right? Most chiropractors are pretty adept at manual therapies and nutrition and exercise and, philosophically, very sound in terms of their approach. But oftentimes, we’re very mono, I don’t know the word for it. And we’re very singular in the types of modalities that we’re including, meaning. I’m a chiropractor who knows all these different tools, but I just adjust or I just and maybe provide some nutrition advice. And then you have someone like yourself, who is adjusting and incorporating functional neurology, functional medicine, nutrition, and education, all in one. I think that’s really where the profession is headed. And I think that’s becoming fashionable in chiropractic, I think and in healthcare, is to be, you know, kind of getting back to fundamental practices and incorporating lots of different modalities. You seem to have figured that out a lot faster than most practitioners, I think.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: I think you get thrown into things life throws you. As soon as God does it, God throws you into things that you didn’t expect. Yeah, you’re smiling. So I got a story behind that too. Right. Oh, for me, for me to make it to the next level for something I’ve always wanted to do my entire life. I had a stroke. And it was a reset button. And I mean, I had a God moment at that time. And so the center was impossible, really. I mean, I went a million dollars a day, I lost all my businesses, all my practices, everything. And I had a second stroke in the hospital, and I was pretty upset. peeing my pants every night was like, Okay, it’s not gonna be just not gonna happen, you know, not coming back. And doctors are telling me I basically was coming back


Dr. Chad Woolner: What year was this Dr. Schneider?


Dr. Joseph Schneider: 2017


Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, so this was not that long ago. Wow.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: And then I got a call from my good friend Mike grew to Derya from New York. And he said, Come on to my center for two weeks and let’s get rockin ‘and rollin’ on this. And I’m like, I’m depressed. I’m on the phone. And I’m like, hey, that’s like an ad and I can’t get there by Monday. Are you kidding me? Because your comment, get your butt up here, your comments. So I did. And it was really the best decision I made. I went up to my mother, who’s 94 now. So she helped me through that two weeks. I did nine hours a day in his clinic. And after two weeks, I said, I’m coming back. And so Mike really gave me a spark type character. And also when I was in the hospital, he called me and said, you’re coming to Florida, and you’re going to do an intensive down in Florida. So when I got finished with Mike, then I went to Florida, I did intensive work. And then I went back to New York, I did for a third intensive with Mike. And then I lost everything after that. And I was like, Okay, keep going. And I set up a neuro rehab place in my mother’s house, my old bedroom. And then I did my own rehab, when I got up, go went to track every day. And I was crawling on the football field. And I was doing all kinds of stuff and swimming for a couple of hours. And I came back and then I re MRI my brain in September. And Mike would tell me autophagy Joe autophagy. Like, you know, I curse out a little bit. He’d laugh at me. And then when I wrapped my brain, I had no Skype in my brain. So I had a hemorrhage. And I’m sitting next to my neurologist, he says, This isn’t your MRI. I’m like, that’s why I get paid. Doesn’t happen. You don’t give her a scab. It just doesn’t go away. And it did. And it did because of the laser work that I did. And the neurofeedback, they did the PT and nor rehab, intravenous heart tank Oh to the whole thing. And so you get a new type of passion within your heart because it happened right. And so my family what they were saying like, Oh, well once you just have a small practice. No, no, I’m gonna get a big time. They’re not gonna happen. There’s no way it’s gonna happen. So my wife said, Okay, I’ll support you. A friend of mine gave me his office space when he wasn’t in the office. And so I was working like three days a week, adjusting patients. I got to recode in a laser, I got some harmonic vibration, I started working with that and work with patients. And then I couldn’t get a space because I’d have any money. You know, they want assets for your space. So we came to the space we have now. And she signed the lease, and didn’t ask for Financials. We put an extension in lease that we would get a bigger space here. And then a couple of months later, after the lease is signed, we’re in. She’s like, Oh, I forgot the financials. Give me your financials. Wow. And then I looked at God. I said, All right. This isn’t me. All right, keep going. Keep sending the grace. All right, keep sending it. So then COVID hit, and we in our lease, it was time to expand. So in COVID hit we got shut down. We said okay, can’t expand. It’s not gonna happen. And then it did. So then we got 600 square feet. I got a driver stem, and we’re off to the races.


Dr. Andrew Wells: First and foremost like that, I’m happy you’re back. That’s an incredible story. I think a lot of people would have thrown in the towel if they were you years ago because having been through what you’ve been through losing everything. At a certain point in life. I don’t care if you’re 30, 40, 50 years old. Having the determination that comes back from that is incredible. And here you are, you know We just mentioned Dr. Schneider before we recorded this, we recorded an episode with Vitor Belfort. For MMA fans, they know who that guy is because he’s was a legend, and he’s still at 46 years old is still boxing. And he’s got these three incredible kids are all top athletes like pretty incredible guy. And he mentioned this sort of way of of life for him, he described this, his definition of ego. And his ego stands for effort, grit and obedience. And as I’m listening to you talk Dr. Schneider, I’m looking at my notes from that episode with him just an hour ago, of effort, grit and obedience. And you’re living those three things. You think of effort, as you’re saying, like I just had two strokes. And I’m, you know, a couple of weeks ago, crawling out a week later crawling on a football field and swimming and doing the stuff that’s necessary to come back from that. The grit to know be was a million dollars in the hole, and like, I’m gonna come back from that and making the effort to do what you needed to do. It takes some honies to do that. And then lastly, obedience like your buddy, Mike, like, Hey, you’re coming to New York? No, I’m not. Yeah, you are. Okay, I’ll come to New York. And just being able to, you know, being humble enough in that, no doubt, very vulnerable space, physically and mentally, spiritually, where you were probably massive depression, I’m guessing as well, to be able to follow, you know, lead a lead of one of your colleagues and also someone like, you know, legend like Dr. Carrick, that takes a tremendous amount of obedience, and you’re at your lowest point. So as you’re as you’re telling your story, I’m like, Man, that was exactly what Vitor was talking about the year, you know, living and in the very recent, recent past as well. Incredible grief. Here you are now, I’m sure of a different mission, vision and purpose for your practice at this point, having been through what you’ve been through.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. And, and I wanted to chime in and just say, you know, as you’re telling us your story, which first and foremost, thank you for sharing and being so transparent and vulnerable because I can’t imagine myself, I would echo exactly what Andrew said. But I wanted to point something out because we’re the practitioners and or patients who are listening to this, who can relate which everybody should be able to relate on some level and or degree, right, because life throws challenges to all of us universally. That’s one of the facts of life, the guarantees of life. But the thing that I wanted to point out for those who are listening, when we’re when we’re at the bottom, when we’re at that kind of point of like wanting to metaphorically throw in the towel, recognize that for Dr. Schneider, he didn’t just say this sucks, let’s flip the switch. It was a process, I mean, just just the abbreviated version of what you shared with us, I was mentally kind of going there. And I’m like, Man, that must have been a slow and steady SLOG and or grind, you know, because you’re not just talking about the physical and emotional side of things from the stroke itself and the rehab process. But also looming in the background, there were all of the financial implications that you shared as well. And so that had to have been incredibly frustrating, incredibly discouraging, as Andrew already pointed out, and I want practitioners who are listening to this, who may be in the midst of some trials or some struggles, financially, emotionally, physically, whatever that looks like, follow Dr. Schneider’s lead. And just take it one day at a time and keep pressing forward and slog through that process. Things do get better. Things clearly have gotten better for you, I would have no clue what is really cool for me to hear and see. I wouldn’t have said, Oh, this guy had a stroke, you know, let alone just a few years ago. I’m like, wow, I wouldn’t have guessed. You know, I don’t see any sort of that I can see from our speaking here, any sort of visible deficits or anything like that, that would seem to be apparent. And so yeah, I just think this is going to be a really important episode for practitioners and patients alike to hear. Because you’ve lived that you’ve been through that and no doubt that’s got to do wonders for your just general resiliency moving forward, like, you know, like that, that becomes a pretty potent measuring stick in terms of trials that get thrown your way now, you know, you come up with some trial, you’re like, well, at least it wasn’t two strokes and financial collapse. I can deal with, you know, pretty much anything at this point in time that life throws at you, right and so it’s inspiring I just wanted to share that.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Well, I wouldn’t wish it on myself again. Right. Like clearly, clearly that. I’ll tell you that grit was what the psychologists at Jefferson told me, she said you have great. Yeah. And I didn’t know, I didn’t know what grit meant. So she gave me a book on grit. And I forget the author, but I have it in the back.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Is the title grit?


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Grit? Yeah.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Angela Duckworth, I believe is who wrote it?


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Yes, that’s it. Yeah. So I have the book. And so when I’m doing exercises with the patient, usually breathing exercises I put on their belly. But first, I tell them to look, I said, What does it say? I said, grit. I said, you’re here because you got grit. And you have courage, right? So that ego really resonates really big time with me, because every patient that comes in and makes the decision to come back, has grit. They have courage. It takes courage for them to come in, but also takes courage to get to the point where they’re as functionally near normal as possible. So that’s a big theme of mine. It had been before by stroke, that it takes courage to heal. Yeah. And you knew that healing, 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of people personally, and also through your coaching, and your seminars, and so forth. That everybody that enters your program, you have courage, because you’re making changes. And the theme is, I want to have better results with my patients, I want to have better outcomes, right? And sometimes we put a monetary value on that, which is, which is okay. All right. But first, you have to say, God, and then the healing process takes that courage and grit, not only to get started the process, but to follow through to the end.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. As you’re, as you’re talking here, I can’t help but think, boy, this is going to be mandatory listening to all of our SFM members. Seriously, I’m not joking, like when I hear you say that I’m like, this is precisely the message that are practitioners and not just them. But any practitioner who genuinely wants to help serve patients and or humanity at large. You know, what I mean, which I would argue at least from my experiences in the chiropractic profession, the overwhelming majority, that’s the driving force behind why they do what they do is this desire to serve. But they need to hear that. And I don’t want to minimize either the point of what you’re talking about there, that the financial side of it is an important part too, because clearly, you need to be successful in practice financially, if you want to continue to have an impact in people’s lives. And so you shouldn’t shy away from that financial side of it, you should get compensated very well, because of the magnitude of the work that you’re doing. So, Dan, that’s important. So I’m interested to know, you know, since this is the laser light show, maybe tell us a little bit more specifically some of the things that were done pertaining to lasers in terms of your personal journey and maybe in terms of some more specifics of now in turn, how you’re using those with your patients.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: I started out with Erchonia, the FX 635. And I was in Dr. Miller’s office. I had the laser there. And so that was the first laser that I purchased from Erchonia. Then the Zerona that a the red light handhelds, the red and violet red, and violet, so I had three and then I got the f x 405. Then now I have two two tripods or two sets of three handsets. And the thing about brain injury thinking about injury, one of the number one things that happens is you have mitophagy so we talked about autophagy. Right, cleaning out, we talked about inflammation. And then the third part is mitophagy that means that the mitochondria, just not doing its job, and that’s probably one of the most important parts of the cell division. runs the cell. So laser late, especially with the work that Erchonia is doing, honors mitochondria. And it also honors the concept of our nieces, which is very, very important also. So every time someone comes in, I want to get the maximum amount of rehabilitation of mitochondria. And I want to reduce inflammation as much as possible. And that’s why I have lasers. And so For those listening, can you can you define mitophagy, right? We’ve, people have probably heard the term autophagy. Right, which is basically the body’s way of cleaning up cellular debris, right, or killing off in in a healthy way, kind of weeding or pruning, dead or dying or, you know, to put it in Napoleon Dynamite where decoded cells, right, can I use that into decoded cells? But but mitophagy can you maybe define that? Well, it’s really a pathology of the mitochondria. They’re either not working efficiently, or they’re not, they don’t have the numbers they have. So they decrease number decrease efficiency. And so the healing process needs energy. And that energy is crucial to cellular health, not only in the brain, but throughout the rest of the body. So some of the first things that a laser does, Red was cytochrome c, which is the fourth protein on the electron transport chain. And now that we have violet for one and two, we have green for four, three. I don’t know what’s happening with five yet, but we’ll see what happens with number five, but that produces more ATP or energy for the cell. And then the cell can do its own maintenance, and produce the chemicals that it needs to be healthy and thrive, and also produce chemicals for other processes outside the cell to help the whole organism function properly. Now, one of the most amazing things about brain mitochondria is that the cell can produce his own, but astrocytes actually as the brain is healthier. The astrocytes which supports the synapse actually donates mitochondria to sick neurons boosting it know that Yeah. Are you kidding me? Astrocytes are there for maintenance of the synapse, but they’re there for the maintenance of the neuron itself. So if the neuron needs it, then it’s going to give it to it. So when you start having a healthy brain, in function, and the function of the brain is really stimulation, and communication, right? So mitochondria are really important for that process. And then the processes of the brain are always plasticizing. I wake up in the morning, I have a new experience, I see something, I’m creating memories, and I’m working my body in different ways. So we’re always plasticizing. So when we have brain derived neurotrophic factors, and I think you talked about the idea of detoxification of the body, right? Well, detoxification is a natural process. It’s something that happens all the time, we’re always detoxifying her system. And so the brain with brain derived neurotrophic factors, in a healthy organism, they are always there, they’re always functioning, they’re always there to make changes to learn new experiences, get stronger in the gym, to do whatever you need to do. So that’s, you know, the kind of the beauty of our bodies and our brain that those processes need to be supported. When we have a trauma, or we have a sickness, or we have a kind of a dysfunction that happens from lifting or something like that, and our lower back. They’re there. They’re there to support us not only a normal function, but they’re more important when we have a challenge of either sickness or disease that happens with our system.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, when you’re too poor to say that, I Sorry to interrupt the injury when you’re talking about that. I’m reminded of the book live wired by David Eagleman, if you’ve read that book, though. Fantastic. What he basically just describes in vivid detail is is the inherent plasticity of the brain in terms of exactly that like when you exactly what you do. said there, you know, you have any subtle, slight new experience with life, it changes your brain in in very real and very profound ways just showing and thus proving, you know, the dynamic nature of the way our brain was designed to be rewired in an instant, you know, moment by moment, second by second. And so it’s this very far more adaptable system than we originally thought back in the day, you know, old school, conventional thinking of the brain was, it is what it is, you got what you got, it’s this very rigid thing. But what science is now showing loud and clear for us is just how incredibly dynamic and evolving the brain and the nervous system is. So anyways, what were you gonna say, Andrew?


Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, I was just gonna ask the question. If we’re talking about lasers, increasing energy levels, essentially, in the cell, is it? Is it fair to say that the energy system in the cell is the rate limiting factor, or plasticity?


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Correct.


Dr. Andrew Wells: So there are a lot of things, obviously, that affect mitochondrial health and affect ATP production. So what you’re saying is that in order to get to that point where your brain can sort of relearn rewire function at full capacity, the battery essentially has to be full. And, lasers are what helps increase that battery level in the lack of a better way of putting that.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Can I change that just a little bit? Can I do that?


Dr. Andrew Wells: Oh, please. Absolutely.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: That’s really good, right. So batteries charge. In drain, right. So the battery size needs to be big, but it needs to be resilient. Okay. And so when you did rhythm reset, right, Chad, okay. And so we have primary rhythms within our body. And it’s because we wake up and we fall asleep. And so there are systems that create wakefulness. And then there are systems that put into effect while we’re sleeping autophagy clean up where we messed up throughout the day, right. So batteries need to be resilient, they need to charge and they need to drain. And they need to do that efficiently. And so having the energy means that it’s a constant process that’s going on, and lasers make that process very resilient, I got energy, I’m willing to give it up. And then I’m willing to embrace the fact that I need to rest and recharge, and then come back in a better state. So with most of our patients, the sleep cycle, and wakefulness cycle, is is not working properly, whether they’ve had a stroke, traumatic brain injury, they’re ADHD kids that come in autistic kids, whatever, that is probably the most important part of it. And when we do autonomic evaluations, right, and we’re looking how the body responds and heart rate, oxygen. That’s the prior thing that we can test right? We’re looking at either a robic process or an animal process. So we do things like cue athlete, which tells us how the cell is structured, to process aerobically and anaerobically. And then, to really get a patient healthy. Then the final part of it is sleep wake, anaerobic and aerobic type process, right. And they all have their own parts of the rehabilitation process. So I’m really excited about getting involved with simplify functional medicine, because they’re the concepts that are kind of like the final detail that we need to clean up for patients if that if that rings true for you to.


Dr. Chad Woolner: 100%. Yeah, yeah, that totally, totally makes sense. And that’s kind of what’s interesting. You say that is that for us, we’ve been kind of lately going down this rabbit hole of looking at mitochondrial function and or dysfunction and or the necessity to instill within the body at a cellular level, sufficient energy to be able to help carry out tasks like resetting the rhythm and or neutral Shell healing and or stress resiliency training and we’re anything else that we’re doing and so it the lasers. Little did we realize because we started simplified functional medicine long before Erchonia was even on our radar, right. It was like this. You could call it coincidence. I think it’s by design something much bigger to play personally. But, but it has literally been you had mentioned, I think you said a puzzle piece at the beginning of this very much like a puzzle piece that just it was a key key pivotal puzzle piece for us. The lasers that become such more and this is not just because this is the laser light show. And we’re the host of the podcast, it’s just the truth. And that’s what lended us become the host is because we saw early on the writing on the wall of just what a pivotal piece of the overall equation. The lasers were going to obviously have been in this overall equation. And so yeah, absolutely incredible what we’ve seen and how that all fits together. I wanted to clarify something too. When we talk about this idea of mitophagy Are you suggesting that the low level lasers are assisting in the mitophagy process?


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Well know their system, they’re assisting in getting rid of mitophagy.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, okay. Okay. Because if I’m, and I want to just again, I wanted to clarify when we hear of autophagy, autophagy is a good thing, right? That’s the clearing of the cellular debris. Is mitophagy not the same thing as autophagy not clearing up of dysfunctional mitochondria, or is it? What you’re saying is mitophagy is the state of dysfunction within mitochondria.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: I would use the term as the state of dysfunction.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay. Okay. And so


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Autophagy is a good thing, right? But usually in brain trauma, the body goes through autophagy Okay, natural process. Okay, but usually, the microglia who do like the macrophages of the body, do most of that work, and they get ramified and then the ratification process causes them to overdo, right? Right. So they kill too much and they clean up too much. Okay,


Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay. So it goes from, from healthy, clean up to okay, we’re kind of like in I mean, in broad strokes in broad strokes, we’re talking about inflammation, right? Inflammation inherently, in and of itself, is the body’s response, it should, in an ideal world, do what it needs to do. But the problem is that uncontrolled unbridled inflammation can lead to all the different negative health consequences that we see today. Right? So


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Yeah, you know, and if you look at complement, which is part of what microglia look at, and that’s the immune process of clean up in the body of pathogens, that needs to be settled down. So we use SPM a lot with that.


Dr. Chad Woolner: As PMS, can you define that? Sorry,


Dr. Joseph Schneider: They’re a derivative of omega three fatty acids, actually cool the compliment down? Okay, you kind of get the resolvers resolving the inflammation of the immune system. Okay. And so they’re very important, some of my early research on stroke. And some of the patients that have had coming in, they always had second strokes, and sometimes third strokes, right. And that’s a process called gliosis. And gliosis, is that inflammation that’s not resolving in the brain that’s causing either a vascular event again, or a hemorrhage again, or just a dying of, of new cells or neurons in the brain. So it’s very important for our work to cool down the inflammatory process so that they don’t get subsequent stroke activity or cellular death in the brain. Right?


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. Makes sense. Absolutely incredible. Man. We could, we could talk for hours on this but Andrew, any final thoughts from you?


Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, as you are building up your practice here. What, what, what excites you at this point in practice? What are you looking forward to in the next few years with the work that you’re doing?


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Well, I just started my master’s with the Chiro institute in North science. So I’ll probably get that when I’m 80 or so.


Dr. Chad Woolner: It’s amazing, though.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: It’s really important that we become a Research Education Center. So we want to do clinical research case studies on patients, using the technology we have. So, primarily we had your feedback, lasers, we have gyro stem. And so we’re doing a lot of work with almost every patient with those three modalities, but we have other modalities also that we use. And so we just want to continue honing our outcomes, and trying to come down with, you know, our patient comps are gonna, like how long is gonna take, you know, can you give me better, and so forth and so on. And so we’re coming up with those systems, but I also want to create research around it. And, and work with some universities, maybe some multidisciplinary type of doctors, and other medical doctors, DEOs, physiatrist, or, you know, whatever, and really come up with better protocols for treating brain based cases.


Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing.


Dr. Andrew Wells: I’m happy to hear that, because that’s such a needed thing. And one of the, one of the first things we talked about on this episode was that you use Erchonia, because it’s a research, scientific, drug structured protocol that you can use on patients who know, you know, what works based on the research, and, and quantifying the integrative approach to brain health issues, is going to be so important over the next few years and decades, because this is a massively growing epidemic, whether it’s on the developmental side, the degenerative side, UTIs, and traumatic brain injuries. It’s a massive, massive issue here, not only in the US, but worldwide. And so I’m really encouraged to know that we have somebody like you working in the trenches to develop the protocols into what they should do. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks. A lot. What? Lasers? Now, when we talk about mitochondria, that’s only a really small tip of the benefit solely with lasers. So when you use Zerona, the adipose cell actually opens up a pore. Now, that’s just mitochondria. Right? That’s, that’s a membrane. Right? Okay, so what’s happening with the membrane? So I’m thinking that it’s going to expand into kinases, right? Does it affect the kinase system from the membrane to the nucleus? And does it affect RNA? Does it affect processing of DNA? Does it have epigenetic effects on the cell itself, too? So I think that we’re just learning about the mitochondria, but there’s more to come.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolutely, yeah. No, I couldn’t agree more. And that’s what makes this so exciting, right? Is that what happens? What seems to be the common theme is just when you think you have it understood, some new discovery, you know, awakens your excitement about the potential and it just seems like that’s happening all the time here, especially in this realm with lasers so much exciting stuff happening. So it’s cool to be able to chat with people like you and hear a lot about these amazing things. So we appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be with us on this interview. This has been phenomenal. And I’m excited to share this with fun.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Thank you very much for having me.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolutely. 


Dr. Andrew Wells:

So hopefully you can be a guest again soon because we want to follow your progression and in what you’re doing in your office for research. Yeah. Truly a great doctor to be following especially for our listeners.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: I really appreciate you too, so well.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Thank you.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: You’ve done a good work 


Dr. Chad Woolner:

 Thank you so much. Yeah, so Doc’s we hope and Doc’s and other listeners will say we hope that this has been a really wonderful episode for you to tune into and we hope that this has been beneficial. Share this with others that you think could benefit and we will talk to you guys on the next episode. Have a good one, everybody.


Dr. Joseph Schneider: Thank you very much. Take care.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Thanks for listening to the laser light show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well at Erchonia E community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.


About The Guest(s):

Dr. Joseph Schneider graduated in  ’79 and worked as a project engineer, learning from a supervisor with a photographic memory. Despite not having a degree, the supervisor’s medicinal knowledge coupled with familial triggers led Dr. Schneider to pursue chiropractic studies with a focus on neurology, eventually becoming board certified in 1995.


Dr. Schneider began his laser journey with the Erchonia’s FX 635 laser and gradually expanded to include but not limited to the  Zerona and the FX 405. They emphasize the importance of addressing mitophagy, a pathology of mitochondria that affects their efficiency and quantity. Dr. Schneider discusses how Erchonia’s lasers, by targeting specific proteins in the electron transport chain, enhance ATP production, supporting cellular maintenance and overall organism function. They highlight the role of brain mitochondria in healthy brain function, emphasizing the constant plasticity of the brain. Overall, Dr. Scheider connects this to brain-derived neurotrophic factors and underscores the importance of supporting these processes, particularly during trauma or dysfunction.

Key Takeaways:

 The goal is integrated care, considering the overlap of the nervous system, autonomic nervous system, and neuro-immunology. Dr. Schneider advocates for chiropractic and functional neurology centers to evolve into research and education centers for a more modern approach.


“So every time someone comes in, I want to get the maximum amount of rehabilitation of mitochondria. And I want to reduce inflammation as much as possible. And that’s why I have lasers.” -Dr. Schneider

“The autonomic nervous system is probably the most powerful aspect of central nervous system control in the body, which goes into the biochemical aspects of it. Also, the neuro-immunology that goes along with it….So the next thing that happens is that chiropractic centers and functional neurology centers have to become research centers and education centers, not just doctor’s offices.” -Dr. Schneider

“Most chiropractors are pretty adept at manual therapies and nutrition and exercise and, philosophically, very sound in terms of their approach. But oftentimes, we’re very mono, I don’t know the word for it. And we’re very singular in the types of modalities that we’re including….And then you have someone like yourself, who is adjusting and incorporating functional neurology, functional medicine, nutrition, and education, all in one. I think that’s really where the profession is headed… kind of getting back to fundamental practices and incorporating lots of different modalities.” -Dr. Andrew Wells