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Podcast Episode #61: Stacking Lasers with Traditional Chinese Medicine with Dr. Dustin Dillberg

laser light show

Dr. Chad Woolner: This episode of the laser light show is brought to you by Erchonia’s upcoming seminar, “The Mind-Body Connection: Revitalize your practice through neurological and traditional Chinese medicine advancements.” Join my good friend, Dr. Trevor Berry, an amazing functional neurologist, and Dr. Dustin Dillberg, an incredible traditional Chinese medicine practitioner, in Honolulu, Hawaii, on Saturday, September 9, and Sunday, September 10. For more details and registration, visit Erchonia.com. Seats are going fast, so don’t miss it. What’s going on, everybody? Dr. Chad Woolner here with Dr. Andrew Wells. And on today’s episode of the laser light show, we have with us a special guest, Dr. Dustin Dillberg, all the way from Hawaii. We’re excited to chat with him. Let’s get to it.




Dr. Andrew Wells

Dr. Chad Woolner

Dr. Dustin Dillberg


Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music from the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimi Hendrix and Metallica. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen firsthand just how powerful laser therapy is at helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science, technology, and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner, along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells, and welcome to the laser light show.


Interested in incorporating Low-Level Laser therapy into your routine? Find out how to differentiate between lasers in What a Sham: The truth about Red Light Therapy.


Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, welcome to the show, everyone, and welcome, Dr. Dillberg. Good to have you here with us.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: Thank you, thrilled to be here.


Dr. Chad Woolner: So you’re coming to us from what island in Hawaii.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: The island of Kauai. I live on the south shore in Koloa, currently have a clinic in Lihue with plans of expansion down to the South Shore also.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Fantastic. How cool is that?


Dr. Andrew Wells: Dr. Dillberg was here; he is a second-time laser light show guest. The first episode we had him on was fantastic. So we’re really happy to have you on again. And Dr. Dillberg is, correct me if I’m wrong, a doctor of Chinese medicine who grew up, I believe, in a chiropractic family if I remember that right.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: You remember correctly; my dad’s a chiropractor and acupuncturist also.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Fantastic, fantastic, cool. What prompted you to go into Chinese medicine as opposed to chiropractic?


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: It’s kind of a funny story. I touched on it in a previous podcast as well. But I signed up for chiropractic school and was having dinner with Dr. Burrow Pet Yvonne at my family’s, my dad’s house. We sat around the table, and I was thrilled to tell him that I was on this path. And he actually said, “Take a page out of what I’ve been able to prove here and go to Chinese medical school, learn how to master that, and then come learn under me up in Gig Harbor.” And my dad’s jaw kind of dropped, and he pushed me to go to Chinese medical school first. That kind of started that path, and the rest is history.


Dr. Chad Woolner: How cool is that? That’s amazing.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: I will also say that my first love of medicine was acupuncture after I was hit by a car when I was seven years old. And some of the trauma created a number of symptoms, including migraines, and acupuncture ended up helping me tremendously with my migraines. However, at that age, I was kind of freaking out about the whole needle thing and scared of getting the treatments even though I knew that helped. And so my dad was able to overcome my fear of needles by having me learn how to treat him. He was like, “Alright, so go ahead and poke me with a needle here, perform acupuncture on these points. See it doesn’t hurt. It’s not that crazy when you pull them out. There’s no trauma or blood or anything like that.” So he started fostering me to follow his footsteps and learn acupuncture from a really young age, and he was thrilled that I got to treat him on a pretty regular basis from a young age as well.


Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s fantastic. And how long have you been practicing for now?


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: I’ve been practicing since 2007.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay, so yeah, quite a while been very, very well.


Dr. Andrew Wells: Where did you go to school at?


Dr. Chad Woolner: Sorry, Andrew.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: Pacific College of Oriental Medicine, which is now Pacific College of Health Sciences. They have three campuses, and I went to the San Diego campus.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Very cool. What were you gonna say, Andrew.


Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah. I was gonna say the reason I’m excited about this episode, and we talked, we touched on this a little bit in our previous episode with Dr. Dillberg is that, you know, he comes from, you come from a really interesting background, and that you grew up in a chiropractic household, you knew burl, pet, Yvonne, had dinner with him. So you have that background, you went to school to learn Chinese medicine. And so I would say you bring to the table a really unique perspective on health. And I’m excited for this episode, in particular, because we’re going to be talking about how you’re integrating lots of different modalities. And I think this is important because as healthcare has kind of evolved over the last few decades, what we tend to see is hyper-specialization in certain things. Like I am the acupuncturist, I’m the chiropractor, I am a functional medicine doctor, I do this particular thing. And I find that oftentimes, hyper-specialization leads to fragmentation. And so we don’t often look at patients as a whole, you know, physical, mental, spiritual being, we kind of look at them through the eyes of a certain profession. And I’m excited for this episode because we’re going to be talking about how you’re integrating lots of different modalities to help patients with chronic health issues. And so, I’m excited for the doc’s that are listening to this because of all the people we’ve, amazing professionals and Doc’s and experts we’ve, we’ve interviewed, I think you’re one of a few that has a really such a diverse background that you have. And so yeah, so thanks again for being on.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: Thank you, because you’ve had some of the best guests. You know, I absolutely love the show; I love listening to it because it gives you those little cues and epiphanies of Oh, that’s a great idea, I’m going to incorporate that and add it to what I’m currently doing and creating just, you know, a really amazing opportunity with learning from, you know, all of these wonderful guests that you’ve had. So thank you for including me in that group. It’s an honor.


Dr. Chad Woolner: You bet. And likewise, I would say the same thing we’ve been so lucky to be able to chat with and glean wisdom from so many brilliant dogs. I wanted to add just just in case there are people listening to this all the chiropractors when they hear the name Peda Bong, I think the vast majority of we’re going to be like oh, yeah, but for the rest of the lay public and or people who may be wondering outside the profession for all your fellow acupuncturists Chinese medicine. They’re like who’s Dr. Paragon like, this is one of the largest chiropractic techniques, systems that’s out there. If I’m not mistaken, this was to a certain extent. What is today CBP had kind of a background with I don’t know if they would say that it CBP stems from Pentagon I don’t know if that’s the correct way of putting it if they would put it that way. But I know that Dede Harrison’s dad was involved with and worked with Dr. Pentagon, is that correct?


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: From my understanding, yes, yeah. So anyway, it’s just just interesting. I have, you know, been raised under my father, and he was very active in different associations. And I love the way that he’s continued to learn for his entire career. And he graduated, shoot in the 70s, early 70s, from grad school, and just has been a lifelong learner that way. And so he you’d ask him that, and he’d give you a detailed history lesson by every aspect of it. And since I didn’t even go to true chiropractic school, I went to burls, you know, boot camp, basically. And he was in the process of starting his own chiropractic school, no relative like, we were trying to write curriculum. And that was a lot of our homework. And to kind of trade off is, it was an interesting time. That it didn’t come to fruition, but it was an amazing time that I didn’t have to have the opportunity to learn from so many other masters of different techniques. I don’t have the same level of understanding as you chiropractors do have all those other offerings.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Sure. Yeah. So let’s start here, you know, obviously utilizing Erchonia lasers as a part of this whole system and or suite will say of tools and or techniques and strategies you’re using to help patients. Let’s talk about it in terms of what is it when we talk about stacking therapies and or a multimodal approach that you’re taking? What does that look like for you what types of patients are hoping what have you found, I’m going to leave it pretty wide open for you to just go for it. And let’s start from the top and go through it, what that what that looks like and what that means to you and why?


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: What I’m yet to find something that laser hasn’t amplified or increased the value of. And so whether it’s more of a strict TCM, style practice or acupuncture style practice where we’re used to coming into a tongue and pulse diagnosis, understanding the pattern differentiation and needling our patients, maybe sending them home with herbs. There are quite a few patients that are incredibly scared of needles as I was when I was seven, you can use that laser, and that’s been well proven to change or activate the same response that a needle would have with just utilizing laser therapy, we can use different wavelengths to elicit those changes. Great study was showing that 405 nanometer wavelength over pericardium six has a wonderful effect on heart rate variability, calming the nervous system down. And so we can use laser in lieu of acupuncture needles, but I found Why would you do that when you can laser over the acupuncture needles, in my opinion works better than Eastham. It works better than Moxa by far, and I commonly describe it as a modern-day moxibustion. Instead of using those herbs that were burning that have that horrible smell that some people are allergic to or risking your burning or not only the patient but your sheets and things like that go into an acupuncture office, you’ll see Moxa effects around the office, you’re able to use more focused wavelengths with a far more scientific approach. Utilizing the frequencies and the wavelengths together to elicit a more powerful change in my opinion, then, moxibustion Max actually burns at a spectral range of 400 to roughly 1100 nanometers. And so there’s a lot of wavelengths being emitted by moxibustion, but they are not coherent, they are not focused in the way that Erchonia lasers are, that’s proven to be really important, right. And so, continuing on that TCM, type of practice, I love coffee, I love guasha. I love the way that so many massage therapists, PTs, chiropractors are also using different scraping techniques and copying these days, which are just fantastic therapeutics, but they’re so much better when you add laser. And so we can add laser, so many different places as well. I love when someone comes in, thanks to, you know, the likes of the functional neurologists and the Trevor Barry’s out there. Taking a look at posture and balance and neurological function on a really simplistic level, I do this with every one of my patients. I have adopted the Gaskey method and foundation training and a number of other like corrective exercise techniques into my clinic as well. And so before I do, most other examination, I’m always standing people up and having, you know, show me what they got what’s what’s their start position, what is the activation sequence and movement patterns that they are starting with so that we can be have a before and after testable? evaluation or or analysis. And it blows me away how effective laser is for posture correction, with very little intervention, without doing a lot of hands-on techniques without doing other things, you know, mobilizations or adjustments or corrective exercise if we laser over their cerebellum, and we laser over their low back if they have an incredibly elevated or twisted pelvis, especially with that GVL. I didn’t notice this prior to the use of the GVL. To be honest, I wasn’t looking for it. But since activating that new laser Erchonia, GVL on the spinal column, and having them do something simple like setting, pelvic tilts, or getting getting them on the pedal on wobble chair, and lasering them and standing them up and just doing before and after your valuation, groundbreaking changes occur in like two minutes. It’s radical. And so that’s just another way that any practitioner that I mentioned, chiropractor, acupuncturist massage therapists, PT anyone could elicit a pretty powerful change in their patient just by utilizing the laser on the cerebellum, parts of their brain that might be affected, and their spinal cord.


Dr. Chad Woolner: So when you’re, so you’re, I want to just tease that out real quick. Obviously being a chiropractor, when you’re having them do let’s say wobble chair or for those who don’t have wobble chair, I know tons of chiropractors who use like wobble discs right, they’ll have to sit on the discs and do that. Are you lasering the cerebellum Are you lasering the spine what and where are you lasering and or what types of settings for dogs? Because I guarantee you there are chiropractors and or rehab specialists that are like, what are the specifics that you do? I’m sure they would love to hear that.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: I love that question and keep asking in each instance, please. So when I first noticed that I actually didn’t even start using the wobble chair, I would have them sitting on my table, and just to do some upregulation on their spinal cord. And so after noticing how powerful some of the changes are, I’ve somewhat honed in on this type of protocol where focusing on the cerebellum, ideally decided that they needed the most cervical spine. And then especially when we’re dealing with pelvic and hip elevation, rotation, tilt disparities, things like that, I’m going to be focusing on the lumbar spine. And during that time, I have them just activate the areas that they have the greatest imbalances with, and so flexion extension of their cervical spine, how to do some shoulder rolls or scapular motions, and then have them do forward and back, just pelvic tilts. And this is just sitting on the table, no wobble chair, anything else needed. And so I encourage all of you practitioners, try this, just go through about two minutes on each one of those areas, five minutes total is certainly enough, and have them stand back up and just do another posture evaluation. prior to doing any other treatments, see what happens. I think it’s a quick and easy way to show the efficacy of the laser and what it’s actually doing for our patients.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Wow. In terms of frequency settings, just pretty much like an upregulation type setting, or what’s that look like?


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: I typically do up regulation. However, I have been using the Fairbury. Brain settings, the 110 4060. Okay, on these types of patients with great success as well. Fantastic. And so that’s that’s definitely one of my favorites. Very,


Dr. Chad Woolner: Very cool. Wonderful.


Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t think that, that I understand the, I think the rationale of why you’re doing what you’re doing, but you’re getting postural changes without really touching the patient. That is that I am correct in saying that.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: That’s what made my jaw drop. Because I, the way that I found this out wasn’t that I was challenging it or trying to prove a point or I wasn’t looking for it. It happened to be a second guessing my like, I wasn’t looking at my notes, I was just working with a patient, I was like before you lay down, stand back up, let me see where your hips are, again, because I remember them being incredibly rotated. And I just wanted to make sure that I was having that second assessment. Everything looked so much more neutral, that I had to go back and look at my notes and check in with the patient. And then I started doing this on a regular basis with each patient. Before I start putting my hands on you, let’s go ahead, and take a look. And so during that those five minutes, and I have been going through some just basic activation, that’s where I ended up checking in with my patient and doing a lot more of the intake of asking them how they’re sleeping, what you know what their digestion is like and, and figuring out the bigger picture. But I quickly have them come in, let’s look at your posture. That’s how you sit down. I’m gonna start this process as we connect in and figure out where we’re going next.


Dr. Andrew Wells: I am 100% going to be doing that tonight with my family. My my wife, unfortunately, has scoliosis. And she’s done really well through, you know, chiropractic care, you know, using a lot of the pet IBAN techniques that I’ve learned over the years, but I’m going to do that tonight. I’m really curious like I have my laser in hand as we’re recording this. I’m going to try this tonight. So thanks for thanks for the suggestion. I’ll let you know how it goes.


Dr. Chad Woolner: You know the things that I would do, I would connect some dots for those listening. You know, we have this is obviously not a CBP podcast nor am I a CBP practitioner. But that being said, we have a lot of a debt of gratitude to CBP similar to Erchonia and that they have really pioneered a lot of groundbreaking research. Specifically I think they just published a paper showing a very clear connection between alterations in cervical posture and the autonomic nervous system function showing that even just slight subtle deviations in in head carriage and or cervical posture can create it can have an end and and this isn’t the first of its kind either. There have been several other studies that have shown things like alterations in head carriage can reduce lung capacity and breathing and or sympathetic tone, and a variety of other things. And so for those who are listening cuz because you might have some you know, we have practitioners and patients who listen to this podcast. I want them to not get lost in the so what you know what I mean? So what if one hip higher or heads tilted a little bit or shoulder sits? Posture is not that big of a deal, right? Or what does that mean? Maybe on that end, but maybe some are just like so. But what does that mean? Like, why are we doing that? Right? And, and the thing one could argue as chiropractors we’ve argued this, obviously, clearly, CBP argues this, you know, the postures a window into not only the spine, but now clearly showing the health of the autonomic nervous system and the overall nervous system, right. And so what we’re talking about here, might appear at kind of surface level, like, okay, that’s kind of cool. But what we’re talking about in terms of global health is far more significant than than people might realize.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg:

You know, it certainly isn’t. And, you know, from the Peter Gasby, are you familiar with Egoscue method? I’m not interesting. nonmedical posture, corrective exercise method. He is a veteran who took Piatigorsky, the originator of the method to trapnell, and was basically told that he was going to have one hell of a future not being able to live the life that he wanted. And he found himself in that point of despair, I got to figure this stuff out myself, he found himself at a library looking at anatomy books, trying to figure out, that’s what anatomy is supposed to look like, and look at mine, it’s not lined up that way at all, I’ve got serious issues, what can I do to stimulate my body to correct itself. And he is just posture, like focused, the only thing that matters kind of a guy. And I’ve seen that method work wonders in many different settings, working in his clinic, working with my own patients, and teaching the method to a number of other therapists. Posture gives us a window into why one side develops arthritis faster than the other, why one joint is compromised, and usually making up for a dysfunction or an instability elsewhere. It’s doing more work than it’s designed to do. And it’s not, you know, adding those shearing stresses in a properly distributed way. We end up irritating the body in a way that it’s not designed to be irritated. And so it’s really quick or simple for me to want to pause where you, you jumped into, of course, the amazing autonomic nervous system component. And you took more complex perspective than I think it’s even as quick as we can back up and just be like, well, one hip’s out here, think about the shearing forces on that knee, ankle, and upstream also, right, your cross crawl and gait pattern. If you go on that 5k Run, which is a healthy, wonderful activity. It’s not as healthy as it could be if you were balanced in running.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. It’s interesting. As a practitioner, you know, early on in practice, when I was a young new, wet behind the ears practitioner, I had a patient challenged me on I had shown this patient some degenerative changes that were taking place, and he was highly skeptical to begin with of me and or chiropractic all together. And he challenged me he’s like, Well, isn’t, isn’t some level of, you know, arthritis and or deterioration to be expected with aging? And I was like, Well, yes. But you know, and that’s all he needed, you know, the wiggle room there for him to like, immediately. And I had a much more seasoned practitioner kind of, you know, take me under his wing, so to speak, they’re there. And he basically posed a simple, logical question. He said, you know, whether we’re dealing with a knee joint, a hip joint, or a spinal joint, he said, are they all the same age? Yeah. So if aging was the only answer, yeah, it would be purely uniform everywhere, right. And occasionally, we do see some uniform wear and tear. Again, it varies from patient to patient, obviously, right. So that, you know, you have to factor in a whole lot there. That opens up a lot of different considerations as well. But the point being is exactly what you said. You can’t ignore the very clear biological implications and or just mechanisms behind what is self evident in terms of driving a lot of these issues. Number one, that was the first thing I wanted to say. Second thing was, it never ceases to amaze me on this podcast. How many things we learn in terms of this posture correction method that I’ve never once heard in my life and yet no doubt is probably changing the lives of countless people all across the world, is my guess, you know, and, you know, I can’t help but think of the old adage that cliche you know, necessity is the mother of envy. Incheon, you know, so many of these systems and techniques and strategies develop as a result of just people, just everyday people ambitiously seeking answers and or looking for solutions, right? I read that book a couple years back by James Nester called breath. And he was talking about how there’s a guy in Eastern Europe, I’m gonna, you’re gonna have to look at the book to get the actual reference. I can’t remember the guys name. But he was correcting scoliosis or so they claimed, I mean, it seemed to have some validity to it purely with using breathwork in conjunction with like postural position holds and things like that, and was helping people in substantial ways. And so you just, I, it’s never going to cease to amaze me with all the guests that we have the body of knowledge, I think a Patient and practitioner would get a fantastic education. By listening to these episodes, like you said, you know, we get so great we get to we get to survey all these different experts, and learn about these things we had on a doc who does golfing and I knew very little about golfing until we we talked to this doc, we met him down at the Erchonia event in Orlando over a year ago, or almost a year ago at this point. And just incredible. So, so cool to hear these things that I’ve just never been exposed to. So thank you for enlightening us and sharing these insights.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: My pleasure. Yeah, and it’s so incredible as we just brought up posture by itself, but all the things that contribute to a postural abnormality. It’s not just because you’re a golfer, it’s right-handed, and you swing it only in one direction. But it goes back to, you know, every aspect of our life and chemical and emotional imbalances. And, like, We’re such a, you know, a single entity that is affected by our entire, you know, phenotype and surroundings. And it’s, it’s really impactful to think of what is that emotion doing to our posture, we can see, when someone’s sad, we can see something when someone’s excited, it changes your posture, it activates different muscles, we can see it in the face, we can see it and the overall head to toe posture. And so, yeah, just, there’s probably a number of bunny trails that I’m pausing right now instead of going down. But it certainly does change your outlook when your body has made alignment, we feel different. Absolutely. And actually, we did a really interesting little workshop, I love working with a nonprofit organization called beautifully flawed. It was formerly named The Friends of Bethany Hamilton foundation, but it’s renamed as beatlesque sloth. And we work with those that have limb difference and limb loss, which is a really cool demographic to get to work with as you as chiropractors. Now, once you have one quadrant, whether it’s upper limb or lower limb not firing the same way as the opposite side, you start to develop certain things like scoliosis, because you don’t have the same firing pattern, pulling it all angles of the spine any longer. And so most of them either have scoliosis, or are developing it quite quickly, and putting them into a series of breathwork and postural exercises. And before we did that, we had them go into just a real light, simplistic breathing meditation and to address their biggest fears to go into the deepest, darkest area of their brain, the thing that would just give them chicken skin, or make them feel awful. And just go think of that memory, think of what’s happening and give it a color, give, you know, really assess how it makes you feel. And then we did these exercises through breath work and, and posture correction, and then had them go back into that same memory and thought pattern. And without fail. People were saying, wow, it made me feel insecure and gross and kind of sick to my stomach. It looked dark, just you know, dark black, Gray’s purples, and afterwards, it didn’t really bother me. I kind of smiled at that thought it didn’t affect me the same way. Our ability to adapt to our surroundings change drastically when you breathe right and your system is in the right position to be able to conquer or take on whatever is going to come up and hit you with whatever type of stress it might be. So that’s a really cool experience that we try to do with these amputees.


Dr. Chad Woolner: No doubt. I’m curious, have you done that exercise while stacking lasers in conjunction with that in terms of breathing and visualization and all that?


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: Absolutely. That’s actually one of my favorite things to do. Which again will cross over to any type of user of lasers at home or in clinic is visualization. And with pain, just as an example, had a gentleman who loved his outdoor life loved surfing and biking and playing and he kept on having a certain reoccurrence of pain. So what ended up really changing or tipping the scale in his favor and allowed for his body to hold the changes that he was able to feel in other methods or treatment was actually checking in and visualizing just something as simple as laying down imaginarily laying down on a surfboard and paddling which would light up his back. So he knew he couldn’t do it. And so he couldn’t imagine doing that without pain. If you can’t imagine doing something without pain, it’s gonna be really hard to actually do it with. So I had him just sitting on the table and said, I want you to stand up and walk to my front door, just in your mind and walk back and I was lasering him. And he said, All right. Well, I felt my back. As I started to stand up, I hesitated for a second I felt the jolt right. When I always feel the jolt one day load on my right leg, I took a step. And I felt it again had to kind of breathe and reset. And then I could walk with a decreased level of pain, which is the exact pattern that he has every single time he stood up for years and years, and walk back sat down, and he felt it as his hips hit the table. But this is all just through visualization. He hadn’t gotten off the table, he was sitting there the entire time, it took him about seven times of visualizing it, trying to imagine it not hurting before he was able to walk through that exercise without imagining that pain, or feeling that pain. And as he was able to break through with that visualization, his pain started to change quickly. And so stacking visualization is a powerful tool that I use in my practice with all of the other tools laser included, but also with the needles, guided imagery walking you into the area of your body that is inflamed or diseased and imagining that being you know, capable of healing, proper blood flow, proper oxygenation of your tissues, all of those things.


Dr. Chad Woolner: I want to dig into that for just a minute for those listening, because there might be some who are inherently skeptical and fair enough. Totally understand that. Where that could sound almost like quasi hocus pocus for some people like visualizations and butterflies. I was there this Yeah, totally. However, the thing that was interesting is I want to connect some really important dots. We just did an episode prior with Dr. David George. And he was an Dr. schmoe and Dr. George was talking about this very thing and the term he used is priming with patients who are dealing with chronic pain. And a lot of it was exactly what you’re saying, stacking or combining lasers with various types of it almost would have and maybe I’m totally doing this wrong by him or whatnot, but it almost has like some sort of a parallel and overlap with like cognitive behavioral therapy, and or similar types of emotional or counseling based therapies where you’re having patients go through these mental and or emotional exercises, which are and the thing that I would say to those people who might potentially be dismissive of this or skeptical of these sorts of things. Understand that these visualizations, these emotional based exercises, mental and or emotional and or cognitive things together, you’re firing pathways. That’s not. That’s not like, that’s not imaginary. There’s literal neurological pathways that are firing there when you’re doing that. And so this whole idea of, of utilizing those types of mental and or emotional exercises, cognitive exercise, whatever you want to call that visualizations, stacked with lasers is something I think personally, and I don’t think I’m alone here that is like really on the cutting edge of some pretty advanced types of strategies for people who are dealing with chronic pain and or probably even phobias and or anxieties, PTSD and or a variety of those things, no doubt I’m making a massive impact, I’m sure you can speak to that, from your experience working with patients. And obviously, having done this this very thing,


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: Well think about the power of our thoughts. Just thinking about something elicits a very real change. If you think about something that’s scary, are heart rate changes, you can be watching a movie in the comfort of your own home, you know, no one’s in your closet jumping out with an axe, you see that on the screen, and you jump your heart rate, you know, completely shifts, or an example that I like to give this much more calm and enjoyable, is, if you were to really visualize yourself, picking a lemon off of a tree, cutting a wedge out of that lemon, put it in your mouth and chopping down and tasting that lemon. Knowing that you aren’t really doing it. Most people will actually feel like they’re salivary glands start to pucker up and start to produce, you know, enzymes and saliva to break down this lemon that you’re not even chewing on. So if you think about something, your body doesn’t necessarily differentiate that from reality, it starts to respond to it as if it were as real as anything. So our thoughts of pain certainly elicit a certain number of chemical changes, physical changes. And it does it on a conscious and unconscious level. I think, kind of rolling that into another aspect of balance that you started to touch on with the posture is if someone is standing and they have decent balance, you haven’t closed their eyes and they’re about to fall over. Subconsciously, their body is going to be holding on to an immense amount of tension. Whether that’s at their feet and gripping for hammer toes, or you know, their hips are a lot tighter, the hamstrings are tighter, there’s more shear and wear and tear in their movement patterns. Because the increased tension, then would be optimal. If we’re able to recalibrate their bodies, proprioception through some of the cerebellum lasering. In conjunction with all the other awesome stuff, if you’re doing body work and stretching for their hamstrings, or you’re doing acupuncture needling for their urinary bladder and gallbladder meridians, you’re going to get an awesome change there. But you’re also going to allow for it to change to have a longer term shift, because you’re reconnecting that neurological function and putting them back into a greater state of balance. And it is very consistent that you can, upon Balanced Testing, take someone through something and they’ll have a pretty good shift in one treatment if you’re lucky. But after three or four treatments, they’re coming in with great balance versus when you compare it to the first visit. So it doesn’t always happen all in that first day or week. But by the third or fourth, they’re showing up at your office and you’re definitely dealing with a very different situation than you started with. Which I think just is kind of that key that unlocks the healing potential for so many different syndromes, symptoms, diseases.


Dr. Chad Woolner: I’m hoping that for practitioners who are listening, I really truly and I think this will be the case that as they’re listening various ideas and or thoughts are popping up in their head in terms of strategies and or ways that they can enhance. And I think what’s cool about what you’re sharing here is these are very universal principles and ideas and or ideas for application right, whether you’re a chiropractor, medical doctor, osteopath, acupuncturist, nurse practitioner, you know, what you’re sharing here are fairly universal concepts and ideas that I hope are like, as wherever the practitioner is that they’re listening to this, whether they’re driving or whatnot, that I’m hoping light bulbs are going off, where they’re like, oh, yeah, that’s a really powerful insight and a way that we can apply lasers in helping our patients. We’re going to say, Andrew,


Dr. Andrew Wells: I wasn’t gonna say anything. Maybe I had that look on my face. I do. I do have a thought though. If Doc’s are listening to this, and let’s say they have a laser already, and this makes sense to them, what would be a doctor Dilbert? What would be your recommendation to them for maybe experimenting with what you’re talking about or adopting some of the things you’re talking about? Where do you, where do you even start?


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: Great question. Keep it simple. Whatever you’re doing even if you don’t have a lot of experience with lasers or any other modality period, you can still find a certain level of success for for most people if you keep it simple, and you use frequencies such as the upregulation or general pain setting, and you laser different areas and just try to think about what makes sense for you. In terms of other learning opportunities, I think this podcast and all the episodes you’ve done, do exactly with what you’re saying, Dr. Chad is that it sparks ideas and makes you think even if it wasn’t said on the podcast, it’s going to spur you on to finding some really cool techniques or ideas or, or methods to utilize the laser. I love the the process or opportunity to share I’m going to be teaching with Dr. Trevor Berry and a wahoo in Honolulu, September 9, and 10th, we have a really fun seminar that we’re going to put together and I in person, I love sharing protocols that come from acupuncture and Chinese medicine for things that are really common. We talked about scoliosis, or neck pain, low back pain, they’re in a sequence of acupuncture points that we know have powerful neurological responses that we can teach you where and how to stimulate acupuncture points with the laser. And so great for acupuncturists is great for chiropractors, it’s great for anyone. And so I’m also going to be speaking at the Pacific Symposium on this topic as a large gathering of acupuncture and Chinese medicine practitioners in San Diego, the first few days of November. And so at the Pacific symposium, I’ll be there as well. And there, Tony is going to have a booth there, a great opportunity to think about lasers in kind of a different setting. But think of just overlapping any modality with lasers, and I’ve seen it work too well to deny, like, why not have the one plus one equals four type of synergistic effect of everything you’re doing including chemistry, I don’t know, if you guys have played around with supplementation, and lasers or biology and lasers, we’re finding that certain nutrients seem to be light activated. There’s some interesting research showing that turmeric and curcuminoids actually can have different responses when light is shown. So if you have a biological available store of active Turmeric compounds to Merlin’s and curcuminoids and you then laser over an inflamed joint, we may be able to activate that area. I’ve heard similar research referring to CBD. And I would imagine that so many other plant compounds and herbs and nutrients may have a similar response. We know that red blood cells and anything with mitochondria have those types of responses, I am interested or eager to see what happens when we find these other anti inflammatory or healing compounds. What they have to do when we stack those, we have a tissue that’s saturated with glutathione or, you know, herbs, and then we shine a light on where it needs to go to work.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, wow. Yeah, that opens up a whole new kind of realm of possibilities, right in terms of if I’m understanding what you’re saying is utilizing these lasers as almost, we’ll call it a bat signal. That’s what we’ll call it a bat signal to deploy the Batman supplements to the respective area that they are required to help with.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: I have certainly noticed if you are testing Omega index, those patients that have a higher omega three index respond to laser therapy faster and more profoundly than those that are in the dumps. Interesting.


Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s another good little nugget for practitioners and what an easy test to write. Low cost, super easy finger prick test any practitioner can do that just about and in terms of fixing any of those imbalances again, relatively easy, you know, in terms of that, so brilliant, brilliant. Dr. Tilbury this has been absolutely phenomenal. And we really do appreciate you sharing some really profound insights with us today on this episode. Andrew, did you have any final thoughts in wrapping up?


Dr. Andrew Wells: I’m just hoping that Erchonia will send us to Hawaii so we can sit down with Dr. Dilbert and just like hammer out like 10 episodes in a row. Yeah.


Dr. Chad Woolner: I like that too. Yeah, y’all read idea okay, we’re telling Erchonia we need we need to do a series of these on location we can no longer do these so I like that idea. Fantastic.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: How waterproof is your equipment?


Dr. Chad Woolner: We can make it waterproof if board meeting ah there we go. Yeah, we’ll we’ll figure it out. Yeah, there you go. Fantastic meetings


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: All surfboards always go better.


Dr. Chad Woolner: There you go. Awesome, Docs. We hope those listening docks and non docks alike. We hope those listening have really enjoyed this episode. This This has been a really fun one. And we appreciate Dr. Dillberg being here with us and sharing his experience and his wisdom. And we know that this is going to help a lot of practitioners and in turn a lot of patients so thank you so much Dr. Dillberg, for your time and for your expertise.


Dr. Dustin Dillberg: It’s my pleasure. Thank you guys.


Dr. Chad Woolner: You bet. All right, everybody have an amazing day. We’ll talk to you guys on the next episode. Thanks for listening to the laser light show, be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers just head on over to Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well at Erchonia E community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.


About The Guest(s):

A graduate of Pacific College of Oriental Medicine, the Egoscue Institute, and Pettibon Spinal Technologies, Dr. Dillberg has cultivated a deep understanding of how the body functions and heals. With extensive clinical experience, he has had the privilege of working closely with elite professional athletes, enriching their lives through his holistic approach.


Dr. Dillberg’s journey has been marked by notable accomplishments. In 2014, he co-authored the book “Body and Soul” alongside the inspirational Bethany Hamilton, offering insights into the harmony of physical and spiritual well-being. Anchored on the island of Kauai, he oversees the Pain Free Kauai clinic, where he seamlessly integrates traditional Chinese medicine with postural corrective exercise, laser therapy, and functional medicine.



On today’s episode of the Laser Light Show we get to interview our distinguished guest, Dr. Dustin Dillberg. A speaker, writer, and educator, Dr. Dillberg is a beacon of knowledge in the realms of sports medicine, myofascial systems, lymphatics, pain management, and functional medicine.


Tune in to the “Laser Light Show Podcast” as Dr. Dustin Dillberg uncovers the science and applications of low-level laser therapy, shedding light on its potential to revolutionize the landscape of health and wellness. His insights and expertise will undoubtedly captivate and inspire, making this episode an invaluable resource for all those intrigued by the magic of healing light.


To find our more about Dr. Dillberg visit: https://www.painfree-kauai.com/


Key Takeaways:

As a captivating speaker and consultant, Dr. Dillberg shares his wealth of knowledge with healthcare professionals, illuminating the path to integrating posture-based exercise and functional medicine into their practices. His dedication to enhancing lives through comprehensive healing approaches is truly remarkable



“Great study was showing that a 405 nanometer wavelength over pericardium six has a wonderful effect on heart rate variability, calming the nervous system down. And so we can use lasers in lieu of acupuncture needles, but I found Why would you do that when you can laser over the acupuncture needles…you’re able to use more focused wavelengths with a far more scientific approach. Utilizing the frequencies and the wavelengths together to elicit a more powerful change.” -Dr. Dillberg


“Whatever you’re doing even if you don’t have a lot of experience with lasers or any other modality period, you can still find a certain level of success for for most people if you keep it simple, and you use frequencies such as the upregulation or general pain setting, and you laser different areas and just try to think about what makes sense for you.” -Dr. Dillberg


“But since activating that new laser Erchonia, GVL on the spinal column, and having them do something simple like setting, pelvic tilts, or getting getting them on the pedal on wobble chair, and lasering them and standing them up and just doing before and after your valuation, groundbreaking changes occur in like two minutes. It’s radical.” -Dr. Dillberg