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Podcast Episode #7: How Lasers Can Help Fund Your Retirement with Jamie Thayer

laser light show

On today’s episode we interview Jamie Thayer of Glow Sculpting Spa, a medical asthetics spa that focuses on using the Zerona and Emeral lasers for body contouring along with several other services as well.  To learn more about Jamie and what she is doing you can check out her private Zerona Facebook group, Zerona Glow Your Business:


To contact her directly you can email her at:


Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s going on everybody? Dr. Chad Woolner here with Dr. Andrew Wells and today we have a special guest with us for Episode seven, Jamie Thayer and e’re going to be talking about how lasers can fund your retirement. So let’s get to it. 


Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show.

All right, welcome to the show. Jamie. We are super excited to have you on this episode with us.

Jamie Thayer: Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. So Jamie, you run an aesthetic spa clinic. Am I phrasing that correctly? Glow sculpting spa out in Michigan? Two locations? Correct?

Jamie Thayer: Yep. So we’re considered a mat in an aesthetic medical spa.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay. Awesome. And we were talking just briefly before the show started, you’ve got kind of an interesting background. A pretty diverse background in terms of your experience. So maybe let’s start there. Tell us a little bit about what got you into this world in the first place.

Jamie Thayer: Okay. Well, my best friend and I actually started and about three years ago is Dr. Stephanie watched here. She’s an amazing chiropractor. We decided to combine our forces, so to speak. So with her background with chiropractic and nutrition and wellness. And then I’ve been working as basically an exercise physiologist and nutrition coach for the past 25 years. And exercise science is what I went to college for and actually own a Anytime Fitness franchise location as well. But about three years ago, she came to me and she had been to inner Erchonia events, and they discussed Erchonia. And she thought, it would be a really great way we could both kind of go off of our experience, our expertise, and really develop a great program with the Erchonia. And we actually found that we loved it so much that we actually built a practice around it with additional lasers. So we now scale and do everything from Botox and filler to laser body contouring with both those Arona and the Emerald. We also have the FX 635 that we utilize in our practice. And then other things like hair removal, tattoo removal things, laser facelift, all the things that you would expect in a full service Med Spa.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: I want to brag on you guys for a minute, Jamie and you guys Andrew told me you were top three.

Jamie Thayer: Yeah, we scaled pretty fast to be able to achieve in the top three of Erchonia providers. And now that we have the Emerald as well, where we’re doing a lot with that. To where now we do consulting for Verona and Emerald because of the program that we’ve built around it. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. Really impressive.

Dr. Andrew Wells: But I also want to point out the fact that this is not to sound disparaging about the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, but this is where you guys are operating. And so it’s not like this is an aesthetic spot. Not in Beverly Hills, not in Manhattan, right as in the part of Michigan that people think are attached to Wisconsin, right or Canada or is that part of the US?  

Jamie Thayer: Yeah, I think that’s really remarkable because when I think of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, I don’t think of spa aesthetics, I think of right lumberjacks, fishing and snowmobiles. And really, you know, the challenge that we first started in in Marquette, you know, the population of roughly I believe it’s around 30,000 people, so we’re really not in a huge area and there are there med spas in our direct region. But none of them are doing body contouring with the same type of technology that we have with the Erchonia and the Emerald. And really, when you look at, you know, the sciences there, these devices are incredible. It’s just a matter of how we built it, you have to get the word out on what you have going on, and then offer results. You know, that kind of speaks for itself.

Dr. Andrew Wells: In this episode, we’re gonna get into some of the financial and business aspects of it. But I’m just curious, did you guys? Did you investigate some of the other body contouring technologies like the LED lights? CoolSculpting? Do you guys? Did you investigate that? And if so, what did you find there?

Jamie Thayer: Yes. So we both researched at length, all the other options, because we went into this very calculated, we didn’t just decide on a whim just to bias Erchonia and set up shots. We really, really investigated this. And really, how, how are we going to be set apart? And how does it compare, because it is important to know what your competition is. I am a really big fan of just knowing the competition, being aware of what they have, but not fixating on it, more focusing on what you’re doing. But when we compared obviously, you know, the actual science behind it hands down is healthier, safer. The long term outcome was far above the other device. So it was really a slam dunk.

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, cuz I know, I know, in body sculpting, I think sometimes that patients can’t tell the difference between these different technologies. And oftentimes I find it I’ve talked to a lot of people who walked away from using other devices and other products feeling that they didn’t get their money’s worth, or they didn’t get the result that they’re wanting. And I think I’m saying that and I think that’s really important, especially in an area where you guys are where it’s a town of 30,000 people, if you’re not getting good results with patients, it takes about like two or three years before those types of clinics shut down. Because you because it’s just bad PR, it’s bad marketing. Right? And, the opposite is true. If you’re getting good results. And you’re doing good by your patients and your clients. The word also gets out about that as well. So have you found it in your business model? Has there been? Have you had some traction just with word of mouth and referrals?

Jamie Thayer: Oh, absolutely. And that’s a little bit of what we’re going to talk about. Today, too, because we developed an intentional business model to be sure that we are getting referrals, word of mouth. Because in addition to marketing, which, you know, I have my own philosophy and marketing that you’re never too busy with a practice to do marketing. But on the whole, like, a huge piece of the pie with that is to earn those referrals. You know, there’s a big part of planning the way you’re going to do business, and how consistent you’re going to stay with it to ensure you’re earning the right to ask for and receive those referrals.

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, that’s so that’s so important. So maybe, let’s just kind of dive into the, into your business model, because I think that’s what doctors want to get out of this episode is how do you actually make money with, with lasers and i i probably like a lot of doctors have purchased a lot of junk for our clinics over the years. And it’d be expected some great things, that these pieces of technology are these pieces of junk that I bought, to somehow bring patients in and do amazing things for our clinic. And that never happened. But I like I like that we’re talking about having an intentional business model because that at the end of the day, if you if you if you match your planning up with your with, like a strategic plan of action with the technology that you buy, and the human resources that you have, in the mix, you’re gonna get good results. So yeah, so maybe walk us through what this business model looks like and start wherever you want to start.

Jamie Thayer: Okay. Okay, so, first of all, you know, when we go into business, essentially, you know, we do this because we have a poll and a calling and a drive and especially when you choose, I feel like something in the health care wellness from that comes from a place of like feeling like you have a calling, right. I mean, yeah, we go into this because we want to help people. And it’s our interest to do this where we’re not just through Going pharmaceutical awesome and calling it good, you know, you want to help to set them up for lifelong health. But essentially, though, the only way you can do that is you have to worry about the money side of it, you have a kind of a duty to then have a viable business. That is the vehicle that you do these things for lasting health and wellness, and just overall improving everyone that you touch. So when you think about it like that, you know, starting with a very clearly defined vision and values that are your why, you know, starting there really helps to lay a foundation of future decisions you’re going to make. And that’s the purpose.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Jamie, if you don’t mind briefly sharing with us, I’d be interested to know what kind of what your why has been when you guys got started? What was kind of your reason, I mean, obviously, I know what’s to help people. But can you put maybe a finer point on that in terms of what was really at the core of what, what motivates and drives you guys with your business?

Jamie Thayer: Right. So Dr. Seth and I both are very passionate about, you know, helping out in our community. And we saw this as a vehicle to do good work in our community, because really, essentially, you know, if you think about like, what your elevator pitch is, right now an elevator pitches us you are in an elevator for 90 seconds was someone they turned to you and said, What do you do and why? And you had 90 seconds to tell them. That’s kind of how to get to the nuts and bolts of what exactly you want to do. So for us, you know, we’re full service laser men. But we specialize in helping people feel amazing and look amazing. from the inside out. We’re passionate about building the competence of our community by helping every person we reach to feel their best. So that is what we always come back to when we’re getting pitched a new supplement line, a new device, a new opportunity, someone applies and they seem amazing and charismatic. We go back to are they going to help us do our work of building the confidence of our community, while still continuing to make money.

Dr. Chad Woolner: I want to point something out real quick that I want to kind of connect some dots for Docs that I don’t know if this often gets connected, that you’re saying here real quick if I can. I think sometimes people can gloss over this mission and visions part of things for fear of maybe them thinking it’s a bit cliche. You know, like everybody says that it’s it’s, you know, it’s it sounds too fluffy for them. But there’s a really, really powerful strategy behind this, that they need to see that you just said there. And it’s, this becomes the filter, or the lens through which all business decisions get made through. And that really helps, I would imagine to prevent chaos, prevent your focus from becoming diluted, prevent poor decisions that could be made for things, you know, this becomes king of the litmus test or the ruler or whatever you want to call it, that really ultimately helps guide and direct strategic decision making for the business, which is at that core and that foundation, is that a correct way of putting that 100% because life happens to all of us.  

Jamie Thayer: You know, I call it the static it’s when you get a little stressed a little busy life personal issues come up a team member leaves, you might have drama, you might have issues with you know, a patient’s health is declining, I mean, all these all these things, you have kids, you’ve got everything going on. So yeah, exactly. You have that that guide is basically it’s kind of like having a GPS, how far off course are we getting here? Always go back to your initial intention and your values because really, that is the why and you can change that as you go. But be intentional about it, though, what is more fluid? Right, you know, so it’s the modalities, the offerings, you know, that type of thing, right? Um, that is a lot more fluid, but you can be a lot more sure about choosing those fluid options. Yes, when you have a very strong path that you’re on Yeah, very defined.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, I’m reminded of a That book by Simon Sinek start with why, you know, that’s one of the things that he he the common denominator amongst the best businesses out there, as he says that exactly what you said the what isn’t nearly as important as the why. And that’s not to say that in terms of what we’re talking about today, lasers are not important. But technology does evolve, things do improve and get better new enhancements and new new approaches and things like that. And so, so long is that as that reason remains kind of steady and true, it allows for you to adapt and grow and evolve according to all of the various things that inevitably change in business and in life. And so that’s really, really important, I just wanted to connect those dots for Docs, because I think that’s such an essential part of why we start with that whole idea of why what you’re talking about there in terms of that. So I think that’s just a really, really. Yeah, I think that’s something you’ll find with the most successful businesses is they all start with why, you know right.

Jamie Thayer: And another thing I want to add with that as well. So when you are the doctor, or you’re the owner of the practice, in you or your partner, and my sense has to be what you truly want. This isn’t a I mean, this isn’t a democracy among your team members that you have there already. Right is about truly what you want. Because you’re the one who, who has everything on the line, really. And people can come and go and when it’s your business, and it’s your I mean, being a business owner, and being an independent practitioner that is not for wimps. Yeah. Right. So we have to have a fortitude that employees who come and go, they don’t really have a responsibility to. So when you establish this, and you could be in practice for 20 years, and finally be like, You know what, I need to get these really solid, it’s never too late to basically paint the lines on the parking lot, so to speak. But I really feel it should be yours, not someone else’s, it should be 100% Yours. And the people who are responsible for the practice that the end of the day was named are on the liability and everything. I think that’s really important, you know, to really, and it’s okay to take a while to decide what I really want out of this? And what really do I stand for? You know, there’s no right or wrong answers. As long as it’s your answer. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s a great point.

Dr. Andrew Wells: So obviously, Erchonia made the cut in terms of your, your mission and vision statement, and that has passed muster. So where did you go from there? So you decided, okay, we want to focus on body sculpting. We’re going to do it with our Erchonia, you’ve got your values in place. And you mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, you scaled pretty quickly. So what did that look like in the first let’s say, like three to six months of getting your laser in the clinic now? Like, what? How did that happen? How did that go?

Jamie Thayer: Um, well, the program that we put together to go along with the treatment, it has nutrition coaching components and supplements, lymphatic support and a few other things. Because we got out of the gate so strong, just being completely frank with you. You know, as the money came in, we were able to scale quickly. But the money was coming in because the program worked. And our clients were, you know, losing inches, keeping it off. Everything was working great. And as far as the referral component, that’s really huge. That just kind of took off as well. We average the rope, I went back to really do the math on this, we average consistently six treatments a day, we have zero on at one location, the Emerald at the other. And you know, so if you look at just doing that, we charged $250 roughly per Erchonia treatment and 350 for an emerald treatment. And then adding the effects as well. We utilize that in our clinic as well. And we average about a week of those meters 75 A session. But when you look at and if you do the math with just that modality you can scale pretty fast. You know, you can if you want to to add on and again going back to does that fit in your business to other aesthetic things or whatever you want to do with your business obviously Jamie, that’s really in a nutshell how we scale so fast. What do you really get out of the gate?

Dr. Chad Woolner: If I can ask real quick, what sorts of things? Are you using the FX laser in conjunction with this? Or are you using it for pain based stuff? Or is there a different rationale behind it?

Jamie Thayer: So, we Dr. Stephanie does utilize the effects in her practice, we’re in the same building. So we do share this treatment room. So we utilize this for rapid tactual healing.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, okay.

Jamie Thayer: So we, since we do a lot of laser tattoo removal, and we work with a lot of tattoo shops, because just a side note about tattoo removal, oftentimes, to get a cover up tattoo, that tattoo has to be faded quite a bit for the artists to really be able to do a really nice cover up, right. So we work with a lot of test shots in that capacity. And, you know, really got thinking like, Well, I wonder, and I spoke with a few other practitioners that had tried this. And they shared, you know, some different settings, and basically, the inflammation setting is very effective on tattoos. Really, yeah. So if someone was interested in learning more about that, obviously, you know, I’d be happy to share. But really, what it does is, it feels attached to a fresh cat shoe within 48 hours about 90%.

Dr. Chad Woolner: The thing that I really love when you’re talking about this is I can tell that you guys are extremely creative in your thought process. You know what I mean? Like, and this is something we encourage so Dr. Wells and I, we have a program where we train a lot of dogs. And these are the same types of or this is the same type of mindset that we encourage with our doctors, the term we use is we tell them to become solutions curator’s to where you’re looking at the problem. And you’re constantly looking at how we can better create solutions for that particular problem. And so the fact that you because that was kind of an interesting thing, when I heard you say, Okay, we’re using this aroma and the Emerald laser that makes sense for an aesthetic spa. But then all of a sudden you say an FX laser, and I think for most Doc’s listening, they’re like, wait a minute, and FX laser that’s for musculoskeletal pain that’s for, you know, more functional type stuff, health related brain based or you know, those types of problems. And so when you said that, I’m like, all of a sudden, the light went off like, oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense that you would want to do that to help speed up or accelerate healing after a tattoo removal or tattoo healing? It’s perfect. Yeah, that’s really creative.

Jamie Thayer: Do you have tattoos?

Dr. Chad Woolner: No, I don’t.

Jamie Thayer: Not a single one?

Dr. Chad Woolner: No.

Jamie Thayer: Well, the process when you get a tattoo is quite daunting for about two weeks, you’re babysitting this, you know, open wound on your body. Yeah. So to have something like that heal within about 48 hours is about 90%. And really, you’ll just have a little bit of itchiness and sensitivity. That’s huge. And not only is this totally like, a niche that someone could, I mean, I believe could even build kind of a business around it. If you have enough tattoo shops in your area, when you go for one, you’re less likely to have a poor outcome with a tattoo if it doesn’t feel right. Because you just don’t know what people are going to do when they walk out your door no matter what you’re doing to them, right. I mean, you could just be someone and they can go and you know, be lifting bags of soil over their head. And there you go, you’re not adjusted and you’re out of alignment again, right, you know, if you just don’t know what they do.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Sorry to keep interrupting, but I just want to ask what’s the normal time frame you say about two weeks for an IV, like if a person gets a tattoo, and they didn’t do the FX treatments. I’m looking at about a two week span of time that I’ve got to hopefully hope that this thing healed and and I’m assuming also not get infected, because I’m assuming that infection is a potential risk and a very, I would assume a sufficiently common concern for people. 

Jamie Thayer: If it doesn’t heal correctly, the artwork doesn’t look the way it should. And then there’s the other factor, okay, so, you know, what if they’re working on a larger tattoo key, and instead of going, you know, three to six months between your sessions to complete this large piece of art If you’re going, you know, every couple of weeks, you know, that’s where you show a benefit to these tattoo shops, as well, it’s faster turnover on these larger pieces that are multisession.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Well, and my guess too, is that you probably have a lot of tattoo shops and again, this is speaking from somebody who’s never had a tattoo in his life, I have friends who have tattoos. But I would imagine that there’s a certain form from the psychology or the buying psychology standpoint, the faster that a tattoo shop can get the process done, the less likely that you’ve got people who have uncompleted tattoos that that priority for them becomes less of a priority with time, right? I’ll finish that later. And over time, whereas if they could speed that process up, the more likely they’re going to be to complete the project. I guess that’s just my assumption. So yeah, that’s interesting, really, you know, to be honest, you’re blowing my mind here, because I’m thinking we’re getting an FX laser in our clinic, and I’m like, holy cow, we could totally reach out to these tattoo shops, and make a relationship with them. Because no doubt, they wouldn’t want to send people your way to help. That’s only going to help their business. That’s incredible.

Jamie Thayer: Definitely. So what I do is we reach out to these tattoo shops, and the owners, especially the most tattoo shops, are owned by an artist that is there, at least in my experience. And we offer that for them and their team, when they get new, fresh tattoos, I treat them for free, Oh, wow. I treat them for free. Because when you think of the sheer volume of clients that they see, and I made up, I went on Canva. And I made up these little postcards that show because we do tattoo removal as well for fading, that show what we do for tattoos and the rapid healing. And then the person gets, you know, a little discount off of being referred by them, you know, and because we treat them for free, and tattoo artists are always getting work done. So, I love that we’ll have a couple of filters in throughout the week. And I know we’re getting referrals from them left and right, either on tattoo removal to say, and then when they do their tattoo, they’re telling the person Okay, here’s what I recommend. So we feel it really fast, right? So kind of is, is like one hand, you know, washes the other type type thing. And then that’s another thing too, about going back to our values, with, you know, just losing self esteem of our community. And that includes knowing when to when to get a little. Yeah, for sure. And the big picture, so, so yeah, when we’re dealing with these shots, we’re more than happy to come on some services for those people. That will be a direct stream of referral.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Do you have a sorry to interrupt Dr. Wells, I’m just gonna ask one more question here. Do you have a standard protocol in terms of number one timeframe per treatment session? And then number of sessions that you recommend for somebody who’s getting a tattoo? And does that vary based on the size of the tattoo.

Jamie Thayer: So obviously, if someone has a full back done versus a forearm, that would require, you know, multiple sessions, but what we do is to do 20 minute cycles on the tattoo at different angles. Okay, one time, okay, within 48 hours of them getting a tattoo.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay. And that seems to get pretty, pretty great results.

Jamie Thayer: Yeah, instantly, it’s almost within about five minutes. Most people say oh my gosh, it doesn’t even hurt anymore. Oh, wow. Within it’s about five minutes, usually. And here’s another thing again, to take it even a step further. Anything you would do like this, that because again marketing is huge. And I did a whole webinar on marketing and you know everything from social media to radio and everything in between but use these opportunities as marketing opportunities. You know, people especially in social media, they love to see other people when these touch orders come in oftentimes will snap a picture of them under the effects given a thumbs up or if you sign or something right put it up on social media. People see them and they know them in the community. They’re in their shop. They saw it and they asked about, you know, it’s kind of like feeding the machine.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh absolutely. Literally, what a great strategy. Yeah, that’s fantastic. 

Jamie Thayer: You know, having your antennas up for opportunities to get the word out and promote yourself. You know, that’s huge. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, that’s crazy. I want to point out , I had no idea we’re gonna be talking about today. But I’m so Jamie, I’m so glad you brought up these points. And so two things I want to point out number one, this points to the like, how versatile or Erchonia lasers are, you can their use for or just in general the the healing power of light, focus blades laser light, you can use it for brain health, you can use it for musculoskeletal problems, you can use it for weight loss, use it for tattoos, I had no idea. I’m always gonna like blown away every time we talk to you. We use it for this. And I’m like, Well, I didn’t know that was possible. But we’re talking about the power of light, the therapeutic power of light. And I think you’re so smart to have these multiple feeder lines into your business. And no doubt I can almost guarantee this has probably happened to you people are coming in for like, for tattoo healing or wound healing. And they probably ask questions like, Hey, can you use this for back pain? Or could you use this for weight loss versus other things that you’re doing? And so I want dogs to not miss this point of, well, I don’t do tattoo removal. That could sound ridiculous. But they’re coming. It’s an opportunity to educate somebody on other things that you do or how their laser therapy benefits them. And that’s like, that’s the key. And so, and you’re kind of deep dive or like, share it on social media, because the thing that’s cool about laser therapy iPhone, is that it looks really cool. Oh, yeah. It’s a curiosity hook. Yeah. Right. So if you’re like, what is that that you’re doing? And it starts conversations. And that’s the best way to grow a market. I’m not not surprised now hearing what you’re saying that you guys are like the top three in the country. Because as you’re thinking outside the box, and you’re helping people in ways that I think most chiropractors wouldn’t even think of. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: So, Jamie we’re seven episodes into this podcast. And my biggest frustration with the podcast thus far, is I get all these good ideas. And I want to stop the show abruptly and just can we put this on pause because I’m gonna start implementing because I’m here, here I am. I’m at my clinic as we’re recording this. And I’m like, I’m literally like, Okay, I’m gonna make up some cards here. I’m gonna start running over to various local tattoo shops and start making relationships with them, like I’m ready to go. So I’m going to have Andrew finish out the podcast here. And oh, it’s really cool, though. Because exactly, I would just echo exactly what Andrew said. The same thoughts to me, it’s it’s been, I feel like this has been like he and I are so lucky to get these kind of front row seats into talking with, you know, some of the brightest minds that are using these tools in such incredible and I would just say with you, especially creative ways, not just in terms of the application, but obviously, in the marketing as well. These are all just brilliant ideas. And so I’d love to kind of steer the conversation back to kind of the general business side of things. And keep kind of going where we were going with that before we got me and Andrew got sidetracked into the realm. It’s good. It’s good. I love it. So keep going. Yeah.

Jamie Thayer: Okay. Okay, so to go back to structuring like an intentional kind of roadmap for your business, you know, where are you going? What do you want to do? We basically came down to our realization that generally you can kind of boil down to three basic things that most of us want. Okay. And in addition to building confidence, this is now kind of like, how are we going to do it? So the three things that myself and Dr. Stuff have boiled down to is, for one, we all want to feel included and important. Okay. So everyone truly wants to belong, right? Absolutely. So that’s one. The next is we want to feel good. You know what it’s our you know, most people don’t realize just how rotten they’re feeling because they’ve never truly felt good. You know, you help someone to improve that and even move this move that scale over just a little bit to feeling just a little better. It’s just amazing. You know, you see these flowers bloom, essentially, when you help someone just feel good. And that leads to also we want to look good. And even the person who says I don’t care what I look like, well, if you improve just a little bit you probably you You’d probably be happy about that. All right. So when when we think about those three things being included, to feel good to look good, you know, that leads us to if we help others get what they want, then we get what we want, which is for one satisfaction and feeling like we’re actually making a difference in doing something. But we also want a profitable business. Yeah, you know, so. So always going through there. So the way we deliver this is, you know, to address that feeling included feeling important. You know, we’re very, we’re fanatical about delivering excellent customer service, every single time. This is the way we train our entire team, this is the way we conduct ourselves, from the time they walk in and are greeted the treatment process, the conclusion, the follow up, it is the same type of service every time because we were really big on a replicatable process to have this consistent experience.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s an important aspect of any, any business, especially if you’re looking to grow and scale.

Jamie Thayer: It’s consistency, you know, when you I mean, think about even a restaurant, if the food is inconsistent. How often are you going back, you know, you found something you love, and you’re like, Yeah, I want that again. And then it’s like, oh, that was totally different. I mean, that’s, that’s where you know, consistency in your business and your treatment style. And the treatment process is so important. Also, over delivering, even to where the space, the aesthetics of the space, basically make someone feel, you know, like, pretty just locking in, you know, they make them feel relaxed. And you don’t have to spend a whole bunch of money and do a whole buildup, but there are things you can do to really just make it a more pleasing aesthetic space. So yeah, when we decorate, we’re like, does this make me feel pretty? That’s the goal, really. And that’s great. I mean, still being, you can give people what they need, by delivering what they truly want, you know, it’s like, they want to feel special, they want to be special.

Dr. Chad Woolner: The thing that I would say to Doc’s listening to this, because we may have some Doc’s who are like, I’m not an aesthetic spa. And so what does this have to do with me, my patients don’t want to look or feel pretty when they walk through the door, or whatever, or that might be their assumption, the thing that I would say is, look at the principle of what’s being said here, not necessarily the specifics, although the specifics are important, what you’re saying is, I couldn’t agree more. But I would say the whole idea is that you’re approaching this through the lens of the customer or the patient. And that’s critical, rather than what you’re thinking, you’re far more concerned with what they’re thinking and what they feel. And so that’s, that’s critical, whether that’s they and again, they don’t look at the surface value of feeling pretty, or feeling lovely, or whatever that is, it’s the underlying, it’s the deeper than that that matters, right? It’s, they want to feel good, everybody that’s universal. Everybody wants to feel good. Everybody wants an environment, that is an inviting environment, that it’s a comfortable environment that brings them a sense of peace and assurance and or comfort. And so Exactly, this applies to any business, regardless of whether you’re in the medical esthetics, chiropractic, medical office, whatever that your office is, these are all universal principles to any business.

Jamie Thayer: Most definitely. And just I know, doctors best practice and our Med Spa share a lobby. And so when people walk in, it doesn’t matter if they are an insurance patient who is on Medicaid, or someone who was walking in to get, you know, a high end service from the Med Spa. We want people to walk in and be like, Okay, this is really nice. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: And I deserve to be here, right?

Jamie Thayer: Yeah, that’s important regardless. And so that’s one of the things too, you know, and it’s in the aesthetic. I mean, we could go down the rabbit hole with this stuff. But really, the point is, having pride in what you’re delivering and respecting your patience. Not that anyone’s not respecting their patients, but it just conveys that in the overall first impression.

Dr. Andrew Wells: You know, what I’m hearing from you, Jamie was really refreshing is that we’re talking about the financial benefits of using laser therapy, but we’re not talking about or like specific, like, Hey, give me the magic Protocol, or give me the magic care plan that you guys have given this magic thing. You’re talking about? Taking care of people, right, that’s the message I’m getting and when you do that, like Are there are tactical things you can talk about, there’s certain procedural things you can talk about. But all of those things when I found fall in line when you have your ethics, and your mission dialed in, and all those other things are side effects of that, because if you’re really caring about your staff, if you really caring about the people walking in the door, that won’t help, all these other things sort of fall in line, including your how you communicate with patients, what you’re delivering in terms of care plans for patients recommendations, how you market yourself, how you’re connecting in the community. And so I hope Doc’s are connecting the dots with these things, that’s so often the overlooked thing, or like, I’ll get to the, I’ll get to my mission statement next year. But first, I need to make some money. And I need, I need to pay off this laser already to pay rent, or these things like those are all those are all secondary to exactly what you’re talking about.

Jamie Thayer: Right. And, you know, and with you seen that as well, at least my you know, another point that even with these somewhat hands off services, like those Arona, the Emerald, the FX, that you’re not doing the entire service on the person the whole time, you know, more than anything choose this, this really is where you never want to put, you know, patients in this like, kind of self serve mode with that as well. You know, delivering that, that service, the hand holding through it, you know that, so to speak, like white glove service, you never want to just throw them in a room, tell them oh, what turns it off, reach around and hit this and then get yourself off it and you know, that type of thing. Because really, if you’re just doing that you’re not, you’re not going to succeed, you’re not going to get your your ROI that you’re looking for, you know, charging a premium is not going to happen if you’re not offering a premium customer service and a closed premium experience with the ads. And then I’m going off of also what I hear in the zero and I have a Erchonia Facebook page about building your Erchonia business around a program that we specifically designed. And so many would say, Well, I just have our secretary, put them on it when we’re so busy. And all this well. If you use it as an afterthought, it’s going to give you the return of an afterthought. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s kind of like a double edged sword with things that can be automated, right? Because of the Erchonia laser, you can kind of set it and forget it right away. And you can do that with all the lasers that are sort of the stand up, the lasers stand up and handheld ones. And so that doesn’t mean that we can be lazy with our clients either. I like the fact that this can be delegated. But personally, if I’m paying $250 for $350 for a session, even if that’s a 10 minute session, or 20 minute session, yeah, like I would expect somebody to be there. At the very least, to pre frame things. And to be there when I’m on the table. So I should know what to expect. And then yeah, if I had to, like, clean up after myself, it’s not like attending a tanning salon. Right. Like, I would expect that from a $20 tanning salon session. But yeah, and and again, like those, it’s not only good customer service, but it’s good marketing, right? Because we’re getting white glove service, or people are much more likely to talk about their experience and what they did share it on Facebook, and it makes them feel like they’re being taken care of, but they’re also much more likely to come back.

Jamie Thayer: Absolutely. And you’re controlling outcomes, as well. Right? Right. Yeah, oh, if someone’s doing their own thing, and, you know, with with our team, because this comes back to also like properly training your team, don’t just say, Oh, we’re so busy, but I’m just gonna have Sally just learn how to flip people on these and hit the button. And, you know, that’s, oh, you’re doing a disservice. You’re, you’re shortchanging your business yourself and your patients, along with your team, you know, empower your team, then, but really take the time to learn it inside and out. Have this plan, whether it’s our plan or something that you think of and train the team effectively, and it will pay dividends. You only have to really do it one time as far as deciding how you’re going to do this. But you have to be consistent on training everyone in having, you know, protocols that everyone follows every time like no deviation, because really, you know, and I call it

Dr. Andrew Wells: Well, sorry, Jamie, I’m kind of curious about something we were talking about. Do you have any? Is it you and Dr. Stuff who are putting the patients in the sessions or do you have staff that will do this for you once you’re on board?

Jamie Thayer: Yeah, we have staff. Now, you know, sometimes it is me. Is that there, but primarily I have support? Yes, I have laser technicians that we’ve actually put them through some training. And they actually have like a credential and you don’t have to do that with them. But it’s also again, investing in your team giving them some consult confidence, just trusting them, but also, they have a very set protocol that they follow in with them to, you know, I, this is a Jamie ism to my, my staff will laugh about it, but I call it the Nordstrom effect. Okay. So, when I want to buy something like a shirt or a pair of jeans, I prefer to go to Nordstrom. That’s where they’re so nice. You get a personal shopper that follows you around like a puppy dog. Yes, I’m buying a shirt or a pair of jeans that are probably made in the same country as some stuff that’s in Walmart, right? I would not want a Walmart not because I’m a snob. But because it’s not personalized. You know, you walk in and they’re, they’re cordial enough, you get greeted, right? That person says Hi, they say bye. And then you’re on your phone. And it’s like, what, what do you want to be if you want to be the Nordstrom of providers or the Walmart? You know? Yeah, it’s all in the details and how you make someone feel? 

Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s right.  Yeah. So important. So yeah, I just went shopping at Kohl’s yesterday for some shirts, and T-shirts, and I got none of that customer service at all. But I would have been in a rush too. So I’m like, I need to go to church really quickly. So I ran in. And I asked this lady like, Hey, do you have linen shirts going somewhere really hot? She’s like, well, I don’t know, if you have linen shirts. And like, she’s like, maybe check back in a month. And like, Wow, no, I don’t live here. So I started looking on my own. And what I found was something really similar. That was kinda like a linen shirt or something really cool. But she could have easily done that for me. And I would have, I wouldn’t have bought the shirt. But I did. I ran out of time. And so I left the store without buying anything. And that would have been such an easy sell for them. And she was, so instead of actually showing me and helping me she just continued to fold clothes on the folding rack. so these are other little, you know, glances into a successful clinic. So Sox are listening to this, like, I want you guys, the doctors to think about how you can integrate these types of customer service touchpoints when new patients or new clients come in? Do you give a tour of your office? When clients come in? Are you explaining all the different things that you do? Are you going over awards, accolades, certifications, diplomas, extra training? Are you doing that thing? Are you doing those things? Are you making sure that somebody is watching and listening to your patients and clients? Do you offer them water? Do you offer to show them where the bathroom is? Or do you tell them where the bathroom is? All these little things? I’ve known I’ve been to a lot of successful clinics, I’ve also been in a lot of struggling clinics. And it’s almost you can I mean, this is like it’s not a rule of thumb. It’s almost certain that successful clinics are doing all these things that Jamie is talking about. And no surprise, a lot of clinics that struggle aren’t doing these things. And they wonder why they never get referrals. They wonder why people don’t want to come back. And it’s like, well, they must hate chiropractic, or they must hate body contouring or whatever, but it’s not bad. It’s how you’re, it’s how you’re treating people. Again, going back to your values.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, I was just gonna say that same thing, Andrew is my whole point with that is these are all symptoms of something else that’s driving these symptoms for good or for bad, right? When you talk about a lot of little things, it’s almost like death by 1000 cuts for the people who are struggling or, or growth by a lot of little small and simple things that result in massive growth. And those small and simple things are all if you really truly peel away why you know what’s actually happening there. It’s because there is a very strong sense of purpose and vision and culture exactly what you started off with, we kind of have come full circle here. So you know, we could talk for hours and hours about all these different avenues and I’ve there’s plenty of food for thought here. Any final thoughts? Jamie, from any advice you would give clinics moving forward any kind of final parting words of wisdom from you?

Jamie Thayer: You know, and again, we could go down a rabbit hole. This could be like a four hour podcast, because I feel like we’re just scratching the surface with really what it takes, you know, to be, you know, really successful. Because really, you have the amazing tools that Erchonia has provided. So, you know, when you have these great tools, that’s usually half the battle, we will have that done for us. Right? So my point then would be to take the time to properly establish these processes. It’s not going to be as daunting as you think when you truly ask yourself, what is my ideal practice look like? And what do people that work in the ideal practice? Do you think so? What did it mean? How do they conduct themselves and work from there even in dreams a little, it’s okay to be like, dreaming outside the box. And you know, and that’s a whole other rabbit hole, we could go down as well. But you know, this is your business. This is your business, never be too busy to like, totally pay attention and intentionally direct it. Don’t let someone else jump in the driver’s seat just because you’re feeling overwhelmed, or that you’re kind of, you know, trying to fit everything in and be everything to everyone.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. All great advice. The last question I would ask you, Jamie, is for dogs who are listening who would like you to have mentioned that you do some consulting and they’d like to maybe reach out to you, what would you recommend for them in terms of getting in touch with you? Or maybe some other resources to direct them? Where would you take them?

Jamie Thayer: Yeah, so absolutely, I’m, I’m definitely available to chat. I do have a private Facebook page for doctors called Erchonia. Blow your business. Slow, as well as cutting back. A lot of the things that we do on they’re interchangeable with emeralds as well. Okay. Yeah. And then they can contact me as well, by email. And it’s glow copies@yahoo.com

Dr. Chad Woolner: We’ll make sure that we put all of these links in the show notes so that Doc’s who hear this and want to reach out to you do but Jamie, thank you so much for your time, we really, really appreciate you being here it is, if there’s one thing that I can tell from you, it’s that your passion and your sense of purpose with what you do really, really bleeds through. In talking with you, you can just tell that you’re super passionate and excited about these things, which is contagious. It’s awesome. It’s really exciting. Wonderful to hear and it’s no doubt that you guys. It’s no wonder I should say that you guys are having the success that you’re having. No doubt you guys are changing a lot of people’s lives for the better, which is just fantastic. And so we appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be here with us and Doc’s. Hopefully you have found this exciting, enlightening, inspiring and highly valuable. We appreciate you listening in and we will talk to you guys on the next episode. Have a good one. 


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