Dr. Andrew Wells: Hello, this is Dr. Andrew Wells, my good friend, Dr. Jason green. And today we have a special episode of a laser light show. We have two amazing guests, we have Randy and Bethany Flores and we’re really looking forward to to getting a chance to interview them.
Dr. Andrew Wells
Dr. Chad Woolner
Dr. Dave Huff
Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show.
Dr. Dave Huff: Yes.
Dr. Andrew Wells: It is, yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s fantastic. What’s really exciting and cool is that we’ve been chatting with a lot more veterinarians these days. So, it’s kind of cool, getting more exposure in the veterinarian world. It’s good to have you on again. How are things in your world?
Dr. Dave Huff: Oh, everything’s good, a little hot in North Carolina right now this time of year, but no complaints.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Awesome. What’s new? What have you been up to?
Dr. Dave Huff: Well, obviously, always working on different patients with the laser and trying to find different applications. Looking to try to get it some applications, even with some of the new cancer vaccines. We’re exploring if we can incorporate that in some way, shape, or form to stimulate the body’s response positively. Excited about some opportunities to work with technology outside the laser. One of the benefits of the lasers is no known contraindications; I can mix and use it with all kinds of different opportunities. So, looking to do that and also exploring partnerships with some allergy medications and diabetic medications to combine this technology with traditional medicine. Veterinary Medicine is unique because we are our own chiropractors, our own veterinarians, MDS surgeons, so we can incorporate this technology in many ways that are difficult on the human side.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Wow, what a cool way of incorporating these into the conventional veterinarian world. Maybe talk a little bit about, let’s kind of break those down, if you don’t mind. I’m interested in learning a bit more about cancer vaccines for veterinary. I’m not familiar with that. Maybe let’s explore that a bit.
Dr. Dave Huff: There are a couple of companies out there now where you can send a biopsy of a tumor mass, and they can make an autogenous vaccine with that tumor mass. After the mass is removed, or part of it is removed, we can give that back to the animal on the equine side, on the dog and cat side, to stimulate the body’s T lymphocytes and macrophages to fight that tumor. I feel very strongly that the laser has an opportunity to work in conjunction with that, to stimulate that and see if we can’t get an even more positive response in the T lymphocytes and in the body’s white blood cells as it fights whatever remaining cancer is there. So, I’ve used it as an adjunct to cancer therapy without these, but I think this is a great opportunity to combine that new technology and different modalities.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s interesting that you say that because I would imagine that other potential therapies that could be paired need to be very thoughtfully considered. I’m assuming you don’t simply want something to just entirely blunt any sort of an inflammatory response after that because the whole idea is to trigger a response from the body, right? So, it’s very similar to PRP therapy, right? If you’re injecting PRP, which I don’t know if they do that with animals.
Dr. Dave Huff: We do PRP; it’s another place where we can use this in conjunction. Many of the companies that are producing PRP are producing these vaccines, this autogenous response for the cancer cells.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Right. When you’re describing that, to me, what it sounded like is more like a stem cell derivation or a PRP derivation, more than a conventional traditional vaccine derivation. But that’s interesting because, at the end of the day, what you’re doing with the laser is not necessarily trying to simply push something down or shove something down. We’re trying to enhance the body’s innate ability to do what it needs to do to correct it. You know what I mean?
Dr. Dave Huff: Oh, absolutely. I mean, that’s one of the beauties of the laser; we communicate with the body, and then the body does the rest.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Right.
Dr. Dave Huff: It’s not us necessarily trying to make sure the drug reaction is perfect. What we’re trying to do is just get the body to respond and respond in a positive way. And it does, I mean, routinely, it does. So when we know that and it’s documented, obviously, that we can get the body to respond to the laser, and then the body does what it’s supposed to do.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I’m curious, from a research and objective measurement side of things. What are you looking at? Or what would you be looking at from a design standpoint to measure the effectiveness or response?
Dr. Dave Huff: Yeah, that’s an excellent question. And honestly, obviously, I’m a lowly veterinarian. So I have a practice. It’s hard for me to do double blind studies. And it’s hard for me to say, Oh, I’ll do this and set this up. So obviously, most of what I’m going to be involved in is just the response to treat. How do we get a response? And it’s why I hesitate ever to talk too much about cancer and the laser because I don’t want people going out thinking, oh, I can cure cancer with it. No, no, that’s not what I’m trying to say, right?
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’ll be the title of the episode, “Dr. Dave Huff cures cancer with Erchonia laser.”
Dr. Dave Huff: Yeah, that’ll be great. I’ll be infamous and famous.
Dr. Chad Woolner: This will go viral for sure, maybe not the way you want it to, and I totally understand that. I guess my question would be, let’s just assume, hypothetically, that you didn’t have the constraints that you have, that you could design it. Or can you think of your head things that we would look at or measure, though?
Dr. Dave Huff: Absolutely. In fact, with one of the groups, I’d love to, as they evaluate T lymphocyte response to the, to the to what they’re doing. So we could absolutely, that’s where I think if we can monitor the lymphocyte response and see we get a better response in that part of the white blood cell parameter to get them the proper response against the cancer.
Dr. Chad Woolner: I would assume three groups, right, where you’ve got no intervention, the control group, you’ve got just that this, you know, the tumor response group, whatever you, the therapy, the vaccine, and then you’ve got vaccine therapy plus Erchonia laser on top of, I mean.
Dr. Dave Huff: That would be a great study, but honestly, they’ve done some of their own research to see that T lymphocyte response. So I hope I could just even do the laser with it and then compare it to what they’ve done.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, they’ve already, yeah, you’re right.
Dr. Dave Huff: That’s one of the ways that it’s judged and beyond just the response to treatment. So I think there are going to be some parameters. I’ll be honest, I’m going to work with them. And I’d love them to help me direct that because that’s their expertise.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s great. What a brilliant. Yeah, that’s amazing. So you’d said cancer. Was that what you said?
Dr. Dave Huff: Two other areas, I guess that I’d like to see it. There’s a couple of new diabetic. Well, we all see the commercials on TV on the human side for non-insulin-dependent diabetes. And that has just entered the veterinary market. And how it works is one of the ways it works is as we remove glucose from the body, and then the body can heal. And if you get rid of the glucose in the body, heal well, obviously, I feel like this device is great for healing. And I’ve used it in some diabetic cats, specifically, where I just couldn’t get good responses, and I’ve been able to get some response. Now obviously, if you need insulin, you need insulin. But that would be another place where this would be a great adjunct because one of the worries in that field in that treatment is diabetic ketoacidosis could reduce the risk of DKA. With the laser, that would be a place if we can get the body to heal faster. If we can get the body to respond faster and better, would we reduce some of those risks? And again, I’m speaking just off the top of my head, but things I’m thinking about, you’re talking about what am I thinking about? These aren’t things I’ve done, but this is stuff I want to do. And this is all emerging technology. But why not utilize the laser and hopefully stimulate other people who have better ideas than me and say, hey, where can I use this? But if you just think a little bit outside the box and realize you have a device with no known contraindications, you can mix it with anything. Then think a little bit about we know the laser speeds healing. And we know with this diabetic drug, one of the keys to it is getting the body to heal. For God’s sakes, why would we not pair this with that technology? Yeah, for sure. From an allergy standpoint, again, a lot of the new allergy drugs that are out there, we’re trying to modulate the immune response without suppressing it. So instead of steroids, the traditional method of allergy controls where you pound it with steroids and you get the response, but you get a lot of negative side effects. So can we pair this technology with some of these immune modulators and say, Hey, can we get a better immune modulation when we pair this with traditional medicine?
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, it certainly sounds like a far more elegant and natural approach than some of the more, I don’t want to say clumsy, but just kind of more of the blunt, kind of hammer 35 years.
Dr. Dave Huff: So, I’ve been down the clumsy, blunt path, you know, yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. You know, that’s one of the things that I really appreciate about Erchonia as a company, especially as it pertains to their relationship with Andrew and me. They give us a tremendous amount of autonomy on this podcast to have these theoretical, hypothetical, and even downright experimental conversations with practitioners. While we do our best to make it clear, joking aside, when we say something like “Dave Huff cures cancer,” it’s crucial that they recognize, as you just mentioned, the high degree of safety inherent in these discussions. This allows us to delve into these realms without the constraints that other therapies might face. You don’t want to turn a therapy into an episode of Jackass with a disclaimer of “Do not try this at home.” If people hear about lasers being used for something and ask their practitioner to do it, the worst-case scenario is nothing really happens, you know? The best-case scenario is something really cool happens, which is just exciting. I love that. Absolutely love that about this.
Dr. Dave Huff: I always try to think about the process of what I’m trying to gain here, right? Yeah. And as veterinarians, our patients don’t talk to us in the traditional sense. So, we’re always problem-solving, thinking outside the box because our patients aren’t providing verbal feedback. The benefit we have as a group of doctors is that we all have a bit of outside-the-box thinking because we have to. Our patients aren’t helping us in a conventional way. The good news is, we don’t get lies. If an animal is in pain, it shows, and that honesty helps guide our treatment. So, the laser has great healing properties. It’s an excellent anti-inflammatory without suppressing the immune system. It stimulates the immune system when needed. Where can I integrate that into traditional medicine and enhance the overall treatment?
Dr. Chad Woolner: When you talk about using it for diabetes and blood sugar-related issues, do you laser over the pancreas of the animal?
Dr. Dave Huff: It’s a good question, and the answer is yes and no. In that specific instance, we’re trying to get the body itself to heal, not just a localized effect. The glucose is in all the tissues, causing problems. When drugs remove glucose from the system, it allows the body to heal. I’m not a human doctor, but the A1C numbers monitored and dropped work on a similar principle. It’s about getting the body to heal faster and better with the laser after using a drug to remove glucose from the system.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That makes total sense.
Dr. Andrew Wells: We talk a lot about stacking therapies on this podcast. We’ve heard from other practitioners who do the same. However, we’ve never heard this concept of stacking in conjunction with medications. This is a first, and I think the genius here is the out-of-the-box thinking. The podcast’s whole point is to share good ideas and the benefits of laser therapy. What I want listeners to take away is to be creative in how they stack therapies, especially if you’re a veterinarian, combining laser therapy with medications or immune-boosting therapies. I think that’s brilliant.
Dr. Dave Huff: Yeah, it is, and it continues. I’ve used it, for example, with parvovirus, an intestinal disease that attacks puppies. There are immune stimulants and treatments available, and I’ve combined the laser with them. Not only does it help quiet inflammation in the gut, but it also aids the immune system in battling back. Veterinarians have the luxury of being pharmacists, doctors, chiropractors, and we can combine laser therapy with other treatments under one roof.
Dr. Chad Woolner: What’s really cool is that this podcast, and Enter Konya as a company, are a little different than most. Often, there’s a binary thought process between conventional Western medicine and complementary and alternative medicine. Laser therapy, applied the way you’re describing, helps bridge that gap and facilitates intelligent conversations for the benefit of the patient.
Dr. Dave Huff: I embrace non-traditional approaches along with traditional medicine. Laser therapy, for me, is a perfect fit—outside-the-box yet combined with traditional medicine daily.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolutely. What a powerful way to practice. It’s fascinating to see how veterinarians, in a sense, provide a glimpse into the past when doctors had to be versatile in various fields, like orthopedics, surgery, and pharmacy. It’s cool to see that through the lens of veterinary medicine.
Dr. Dave Huff: I agree, but I’m not gonna turn down any cardiologist reference. If I got a bad heart case, I’m referring it to a cardiologist so.
Dr. Andrew Wells: And I was gonna say, I was gonna say the exact opposite. This reminds me of an old Seinfeld episode where Kramer goes to the veterinarian because he’s like, they’re way smarter than doctors, they’re gonna know how to take care of this animal, that animal. As you’re talking, the thing I like about you, Dr. Huff, is you’re talking about how you take care of patients. I would see you if I had trouble because you are a creative thinker. And I think in healthcare, to Chad’s point, that’s really what’s missing today, maybe there’s a better word than outside of the box or creative thinking; it’s collaborative thinking. It is not a bad thing. I think that’s that dogmatic? No, truly, it’s the opposite. That’s the problem is that both camps, when you get really entrenched on the extremes, get really rigid and dogmatic and very, very deeply entrenched inside the box thinking, right? And that’s the, you know, it just it hinders you from creatively problem-solving, I think.
Dr. Dave Huff: I think everybody obviously, no one likes to get outside their comfort zone. And when they practice in an area, and they get comfortable with it, and they see results, then, you know, it’s easy to get trapped, if you will. But, you know, I’m an old-school guy, in many regards, I’m sure my some of the doctors that I work with, who are younger, look at me sometimes go, how’d you do to do that and why? I’ve done it for 35 years. So I guess I come across some things and but I do enjoy incorporating new technologies and incorporating new ideas. And but I’ve always been a critical thinker, and I love trying to figure out what I’m doing and why. And then applying the technology. Yeah.
Dr. Chad Woolner: For sure. Yeah, I wish I’d be curious to see like, we could do a meeting like let’s put some maybe nephrologists or maybe like, Gastro doc, and like, hey, how I would take care of the patient this way, Dr. Huff, how would you do this? If it was a dog and see if the information can be gleaned from the luxury that you have of being able to kind of experiment in creative ways. I think that’d be a really fascinating experiment that we could do to maybe translate some of this over to the human, the human side of healthcare. Yeah.
Dr. Dave Huff: And it is hard. I mean, I mean, I started, and I was mixed practice, you know, I did, I’ve done cattle, I’ve done ostrich, I’ve done horse, dogs, cats. And even I saw, you know, early on in my career, that boy, even now the demands of the owners, the demands of the staff. I’m sorry, not the staff, the demands of the knowledge base, what you have to do in veterinary medicine, it’s very hard to do all the species anymore, right? I mean, I just concentrate on dogs and cats because I can’t keep up with the equine and the advances. I mean, veterinary medicine is great. We’ve had tons of advances, and the vet schools are amazing at the tools and bells and whistles that they have to do things for dogs that we couldn’t dream of 15-20 years ago. But it is, the technology is there. And hopefully, as veterinarians, we’re trained to have to think with it without information, if you will, sometimes that the human side is luxury with.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Are you seeing these lasers making any sort of inroads or advancements into more mainstream veterinary hospitals, veterinary education, anything like that that you’re seeing?
Dr. Dave Huff: Well, I think for sure, it’s becoming more and more common for laser therapy. Obviously, I caution, you know, laser therapy, lasers just aren’t lasers, right? I mean, we’re talking about a class two laser that’s photochemical, not photothermal, and there are dramatic differences. As soon as I talk about this, there’s gonna be so many people with a photothermal laser, and we can’t use that around cancer. Well, I can’t use a photothermal laser around cancer, but I can sure use a photochemical laser like Erchonia. So that’s, that’s some of the battle I see if you will, is because, there, there are other technologies that are called a laser that have contraindications that I don’t have, if you will by using Erchonia. So that’s important. And that’s probably the biggest difference if you will. It’s getting more and more common. But identifying the safety margin that this technology has is so different than some of the others.
Dr. Chad Woolner: If I can just be so bold as to say, it does become a little bit more challenging. On top of that, when you have so many of these companies who are piggybacking or leveraging Erchonia studies to support their company, their products, you know, when they really shouldn’t be not only from a we didn’t do this study standpoint, that’s one thing. But it’s like, it’s like not even in the same realm in terms of the same mechanism of action. And so how in the world can you even make that kind of a claim? It’s, it’s kind of crazy to see that, but yet it happens.
Dr. Dave Huff: It happens. And on the veterinary side, it’s even less controlled because, you know, there’s not really FDA studies required, which is good and bad. I mean, veterinarians all the time work outside if you will, outside what is considered proven medicine, right? I mean, we use drugs all the time that are off-label. We do a lot of stuff off-label because we have to; the studies just aren’t done. The work just isn’t done. And that’s a double-edged sword in and of itself because, you know, I don’t have to prove it works. I can just use it. Well, that’s a very double-edged sword, for sure. And that’s what I see. And that’s one of the things I battle because I shouldn’t say I battle, but I see a problem in the industry is that, you know, there’s no proof that it works. And, and I, and I hesitate because I don’t want to bash just laser because it works, but still with different technology. And so when I speak to veterinarians, if I’m at a continuing education meeting, or as speaking, I try to be very specific that this is apples and oranges technology. Yeah, use the term laser. And try to emphasize that that’s important in understanding how and why this technology works.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, it’s funny, you say that. I was chatting with a friend of mine, who’s a healthcare professional. I’m not going to name his name, nor am I going to even tell what profession he was in. But he’s a doctor. And he uses a laser in his practice. And I had started just, and I wasn’t trying to grill him, I really wasn’t because I don’t claim to be the end-all-be-all expert of lasers or anything. But I was just asking him some specifics of just like, well, what wavelength? And he looked at me with this blank stare, and he had no idea what I was referring to in terms of wavelength. And he’s like, Well, it, we use it for this, that, or the other. And I’m like, but that’s not what I’m asking. And clearly, he just has not been educated by the company. That company just basically put it into his hands, point, shoot, go. And even crazier is that this type of laser was, on some level or another, an ablative laser. And so all the more reason to be like man, if you don’t understand the mechanism behind it, and what I’m asking in terms of simple what wavelength and or what frequencies, you know, these whole ideas. And even to that degree, you know, the level of power that’s there, you know, you’re utilizing, because obviously, if it’s an ablative laser, it’s going to be a high-powered laser. But that’s the thing I just think for a lot of these companies, education is not as important as is secondary to, you know, the marketing, the sales, you know, sure it’s safe enough. Sure, it’ll do this, that or the other, but clearly, with our Erchonia, our Erchonia has research efficacy and safety, first and foremost, everything else, you know, really making sure so as.
Dr. Dave Huff: I’ve talked to many of the guys that are coding, and they said, truthfully, guys, if we wanted a more powerful laser, we could make it tomorrow. There’s no point in doing it. This works. And that doesn’t. So why would we do it? So it’s not like, well, we have to make this because this is all we can make. Yeah, we make this because it works. Yeah. And we have the data to prove how and why it works.
Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s such a great point. I think that’s the thing is, I think a lot of the kind of higher-powered laser companies almost treat it as such. Well, you can’t do that. No, they totally can, they choose not to very deliberately, right. So that’s hilarious. That’s awesome. Well, what else? What other exciting things do you have that you foresee in the upcoming future here in your world, Dr. Huff?
Dr. Dave Huff: Boy, I hope some golf in some really good courses. I got off the course today, so I’m ready to go back already. But yeah, you know, the laser. I’m amazed how often I don’t use it. I mean, I could use it on every single patient that walks in the door. So I just try to keep a very open mind and say, how and why can I use this and why not use it? And I really enjoy educating people about it. I mean, I really enjoyed doing, I do see meetings, I do webinars for Erchonia. And I really enjoy educating people about it because I’m passionate that this technology can help your patients. And this technology can help your practice. I mean, if you want to get down to the nuts and bolts of it, too, from an economic standpoint, it’s a great tool, just to have it from an economic standpoint in your practice. And we’re all looking for edges there, right? I’m not trying to be greedy. But let’s be honest, right? If I can’t keep the doors open, I can’t help anybody. So, you know, any place that I can get a benefit there. So I would say education, I really enjoy speaking to veterinarians and getting the feedback and, and doing that. But I’m sure next week, I hope I have three new ideas, right? Because that’s kind of the way I look at it too.
Dr. Chad Woolner: And Dr. Huff, for those veterinarians who are listening who want to kind of learn more from you and what you’re doing. What or is there a place that they can go to get kind of a list of events that you’ll be speaking at?
Dr. Dave Huff: I’m Yeah, Erchonia obviously is a great place to go there to Erchonia’s website or to contact someone there. They know. They arrange everything for me. So they know better than I do probably where I’m going next. But that’s a good location, obviously. I’m sure. I don’t know if we have my email or whatever, that we can add to this. But people can always contact me through Erchonia Malia. And Erchonia has all my contact information as well. So she’s the veterinary representative for all of Erchonia. So yeah, there’s there’s places that they can get that information. Well, I don’t have a cue card I can put up here.
Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s okay. We’ll put it. We’ll put it in the show notes for everybody, for sure. We’ll make sure we have paying for those. So Andrew, any final thoughts before we wrap up?
Dr. Andrew Wells: And Dr. Huff, I’ll throw this out again. We it was great having you on the first episode. This is a fantastic episode. We’d love to have you on again at some point down the road. And we really appreciate your wisdom and your guidance and your creative thinking with using lasers for animal patients. So thanks so much for your time and being on the podcast again. Absolutely.
Dr. Dave Huff: I’m glad to do it. I’ll do it any day ending in Y.
Dr. Chad Woolner: There you go. Nice and flexible. We love it. Huge thank you, Doctor Help, we really do appreciate you. And for those listening, we hope that this has been engaging, enlightening, entertaining, inspiring, and share this with others. We know that Dr. Huff is doing some amazing work for Erchonia as well as for veterinarians in general. And we really, really appreciate him. So thanks for listening, everybody. Have a great day, and we’ll talk to you on the next episode.
Thanks for listening to the Laser Light Show. Be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about our Erchonia lasers, just head on over to erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources, including research news and leads to upcoming live events, as well as our Erchonia’s community where you can access for free additional resources, including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening, and we will catch you on the next episode.
Today on “The Laser Light Show,” we are pleased to introduce a guest whose diverse veterinary experiences and specialized interests make him a beacon in the field of animal healthcare. Dr. Dave Huff’s journey, skills, and innovations promise a rich discussion, particularly as it relates to low level laser therapy for animals.
Hailing from the prestigious NC State College of Veterinary Medicine, Dr. Dave Huff began his journey into the world of veterinary practice in 1989. After dedicating two years to a small animal facility in Pennsylvania, his roots called him back to North Carolina, where he served both small and large animals at the Neuse River Veterinary Hospital in Wendell. His journey then took him south to Beaufort, South Carolina, for four enriching years, but like a compass pointing north, he found himself back at Neuse River Veterinary Hospital in 1999, a testament to his enduring connection to the community.
Throughout his illustrious career, Dr. Huff has nurtured an array of interests and specialties, with a particular flair for small animal surgery. One of his groundbreaking affiliations began in 1991 with ICG/Synbiotics/Zoetis, establishing him as a pioneer in canine semen freezing. Notably, he was the first in North Carolina to launch such a center, and among the first three on the entire east coast—a true trailblazer!
Always on the lookout for ways to enhance his practice, in 1996, Dr. Huff undertook PennHip radiograph training, adding another feather to his cap. But his passion didn’t stop there. Venturing into the realm of chiropractic care for animals, Dr. Huff has been an advocate and practitioner since 1999.
One of the highlights for our podcast discussion will undoubtedly be his adoption of the Erchonia 3 LT in 2009. With over a decade of experience utilizing this specific tool for his patients, his insights will surely offer a unique perspective on the application and benefits of low-level laser therapy in veterinary practice.
So, listeners, as we delve deep into the nuances of low-level laser therapy with a veterinary twist, we are in the capable hands of Dr. Dave Huff—a true connoisseur in his field. Let’s embark on this illuminating conversation!