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Podcast Episode #5: The Top 10 Applications of Lasers in Clinical Practice with Dr. Kirk Gair

laser light show

On today’s episode we sit down with Dr. Kirk Gair to discuss some of the most common (and often unknown) applications for low level laser therapy. As you’ll see, Dr. Kirk Gair is using lasers for a wide range of conditions, many of which may surprise you! To learn more about Dr. Kirk Gair you can join his private Facebook group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/drgairlasertherapy

Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, everybody. Welcome to episode five of the laser light show. Today’s episode we have with us our good friend and special guests, Dr. Kirk Gair and we are going to be discussing the top 10 applications for low level laser therapy. So let’s get to it. 


Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low-level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show.

All right, everybody. Welcome to the show. And a huge special welcome to Dr. Kirk Gair all the way from sunny Southern California. How are you? 

Dr. Gair: I’m doing great, thank you. How are you guys doing?

Dr. Chad Woolner: Awesome. Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to be here with us. We really, really appreciate having you. So to start off with, you’re down in the LA area correct?

Dr. Gair: Yeah, I’m just east of LA and Pasadena.

Dr. Andrew Wells: To kick this off, Dr. Willner. Dr. Garrett, the reason we wanted to do this episode of the top 10 applications for laser therapy is I think a lot of Doc’s like me. At one point, I thought that laser therapy was only used for musculoskeletal issues. And I got that right. I got that impression. Just going through school, we had some laser devices and different things in our clinic. And it was only used for neck pain, back pain. And it wasn’t till I got outside of school and started going to CTE events and studying other modalities and therapies. I realized, like holy cow, laser therapy can actually be used for lots of different conditions. And in fact, maybe let’s start off if you don’t mind. Maybe you have an eye. Maybe you have more of an agenda than I do. But we were talking offline before the podcasts about helping with machine motos and AI, right. Yeah, like maybe you can speak to that, because I don’t think a lot of Doc’s even would make the correlation that there are therapies for things like Hashimotos and autoimmune conditions that laser therapy can help with. So maybe that’s a good jumping off point.

Dr. Gair: Yeah, that really is and it’s something you’re correct. Most people think that it’s just musculoskeletal, but it is so much more. It’s really the applications are kind of endless, if you look at the research, and that’s what I did when my wife was really, really sick. It’s, you know, necessity was the mother of invention, and she got a really bad autoimmune Hashimotos reaction that was affecting her brain and a lot of autonomic nervous systems and we’re going to have all these different specialists and nobody could figure out what was working. And I’m fortunate that I went to school with Dr. Datis kharrazian. And we’re good friends so I was able to call him up and get some help he was able to figure things out relatively quickly what was going on here that it was this iodine contrast that triggered this massive autoimmune reaction for her but as I’m talking with him and he’s doing the evaluation that’s when the light bulb went off for me about hey, you know what if I use my lasers here on her brainstem and on the nervous system, discussing with him he’s like well let me let me check let me do some research and get back to you and that night he he found some studies on laser for Neurodegeneration and sent it to me and said dude laser the crap out of a brain I was not aware of of this happening and you’ll Hashimotos can affect the cerebellum have seen antibodies that that attack the thyroid can also attack the cerebellum. So, in the research he showed me you can see that you can come down this autoimmune attack and then I got curious and dove further into it and I found these studies called the Hofland studies out of Brazil. And in this Dr. halfling, took low level non thermal lasers and use them on Hashimoto as patients and he tracked their thyroids on ultrasound, he they track their lab tests, their medication use, and he found that when he was lasering, these patients that they that almost 100%, the study had some improvements. And it was something like I believe it’s 47% Didn’t need their meds after eight months. I’m not saying this fixes it. This is definitely off label types of uses here. But this is research that doctors could check in on PubMed, thyroid ultrasound at the site of improved blood flow, the at TPO antibodies went down just all these different kinds of things that occurred when you would use the laser on Hashimoto’s patients. And then when you look at auto immunity in general, because I know you guys do functional medicine, we know that you know, by supporting nitric oxide, especially neuronal endothelial and also supporting glutathione you can kind of tell Have down some of the autoimmune flare ups and reactions that happen. Well laser stimulates nitric oxide production estimates glutathione production and the laser also modulates cytokines like you hear with COVID. So cytokine storms you put a laser on someone, especially a low level non thermal, you can actually up regulate interleukin 10 and down really regulate interleukin six and that helps to calm down inflammation and you can calm down other inflammatory molecules like nuclear factor kappa beta as well too. So you have this big big impact on audit immunity like Hashimotos and because of that, I was asked to appear and Dr. Isabella Wentz she’s known as the thyroid pharmacist and her documentary called The thyroid secret. And when I talked about my wife’s story and what we were doing with some of the patients, the phone lines blew up at her Erchonia from around the world with people who were looking for doctors who had these are Erchonia, low level lasers to use to dampen the inflammatory process that occurs in Hashimotos. And as a matter of fact, Dr. Wentz even wrote about me and your Erchonia lasers in her book Hashimoto’s protocol. That’s how big it got with that. So we have patients who have some who fly in from Europe even to see me to do some support will do with Hashimotos. A lot of the patients have brain fog. And our lasers have FDA clearance for inflammation for use anywhere in the body. So we’ll use the lasers transcranial dampens the brain fog, we’ll put it over the gut, there’s studies show that you can lean laser over the gut, you can actually stimulate improvements in the microbiome, a lot of these Hashimoto’s patients have issues with the vagus nerve that difficulty swallowing will laser while they do vagus exercises like gargling, and now you improve that gut brain connection. And so it’s really fun and exciting to be able to do that. And they get some help that you know, when traditional medicine is just saying Here, take this pill, oh, your levels look fine. So you’re fine, yet they feel like crap, we can actually provide some help, like, especially combining functional medicine with the low level lasers.

Dr. CHad Woolner: Yeah, and I would say the cool thing is not just pharmaceuticals, but also nutritional supplements. A lot of times, that’s kind of a conventional model, I think more and more people are becoming aware of natural supplements being used. But this is just yet again, one additional tool outside of that realm of either pharmaceuticals or supplements that can be used. So really, really powerful

Dr. Gair: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, definitely. 

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, that’s amazing. You know, we think of sometimes in terms of therapies for patients to go therapies in terms of exactly that there’s this, there’s this, these two ends of the spectrum, you have either pharmaceutical side where you have the natural side, which inevitably is, you know, diet, nutrition, exercise, these other modalities. And we’re not even I think we’re just scratching the surface, in terms of things that we can do in terms of bioenergetics. And using things like light therapy, to influence energy production, and that’s this. So even even in your, your, your, your story there, we hit three body systems, right, we hit the nerve, right? We had the endocrine system, we had the digestive system and the microbiome. And those are, those are things that most practitioners, especially chiropractors are seeing day in and day out. You know, people are coming into musculoskeletal pain, but they also have these other secondary and tertiary issues. That really we’re very well suited to handle. We have the right, the right philosophy. And sometimes it’s just matching up the right systems and tools to be able to help people correct those. And I, you know, this is an interesting day for Dr. Holdren, because we’re doing lots of podcast interviews. And, and we’re seeing just as this, this massive scope of different health issues that we can solve. With laser therapy, it’s really, it’s really encouraging. What are some other things so as a doc in the trenches scene, what are some of the things that you’re the other things that you’re using this for?

Dr. Gair: Well, I’d say one of the hot ones right now is going to be long COVID syndrome. That’s what I’ve just exploded with, like we’ll get into it a bit. What is the bread and butter of what I normally do, but this is something that doctors may not be aware of that they’re seeing right now is the impact that COVID has on so many systems within the body. I talked with this doc who’s a specialist even in reproductive health, and she was telling me that COVID is even impacting the pituitary in the brain to alter hormone production, where she’s seeing males in their 20s who look like they’re going through andropause, females are going through menopause in the 20s. And we look at patients. There’s studies that suggest that between 30 to 50% of patients who have recovered from COVID have long term brain issues, even sometimes some psychosis, psychosis and mental health issues as well too. And there’s even research suggesting that the mRNA vaccines can do it as well too, because that spike protein can trigger cross reactivity against about 26 different human tissues in there. So doctors are gonna see these patients coming in and they can be complaining of things like oh my gosh, all of a sudden, I’ve got brain fog. I can’t focus. I can’t concentrate. I’ve got trigeminal neuralgia, I’ve got Bell’s Palsy. I’ve got some numbness and tingling on you know, in this area that I’ve never had before. I’ve got this extreme fatigue So we’re seeing a lot of these people coming in like that. And one of the big things we do is we get the Rivonia laser, especially the effects on their brain. Because when you get that laser on the brain, one of the things you do, and a big thing to do is you calm down inflammation. And we know that exposure to that spike protein or to the mRNA, vaccines can potentially trigger this inflammatory reaction in a certain subset of patients. And so we can dampen that inflammatory reaction that’s going on with them, you can also stimulate brain derived neurotrophic factor in these patients by putting the laser on them. And that’s basically what I said, it’s like Miracle Gro for the brain that stimulates some new neuronal connections in there, you’re gonna stimulate angiogenesis, as well, which we know that COVID can impact the circulatory system and damaged blood vessels. Well, lasers have been shown to stimulate new blood vessel growth, and also just to make something called vascular endothelial growth factor, which helps to prepare blood vessels. So you get all of that good stuff together, you also facilitate glymphatic and lymphatic drainage throughout the body, especially in the brain. And so we see a lot of benefit with these COVID patients who are basically hopeless, saying, Oh, my God, I’m going to my doctor, and they think, you know, it’s no big deal. But I’ve been like this for six months, I’ve been like this for a year, particularly when I see them having the vaccine and the infection, those are the ones that we see really, quite affected by this stuff in the practice a lot. And we see some improvements with them. And along those lines, too, if the dots have the red violet combination, like the FX 405, or the ecrl, there’s a lot of really cool research, actually, they can go onto my YouTube channel and searches to see a video I did that’s an hour long, that talks about just the immune benefits of using the violet laser that you can actually help to support the immune system versus, you know, invaders, basically. And the lasers do have an FDA clearance versus the bacteria in an acne and also a nail fungus as well. But we use them in general in the body, a lot of really cool studies that they can find on PubMed, showing these violent lasers providing support against like Mrsa, also against, you know, specifically talking about it even with acute respiratory distress syndrome and COVID patients because of the impact it has on the cytokines and also on providing immune support to so that’s a big one that we’re seeing right now.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s incredible, man. Such such a Yeah, you know, I always get a little leery when you start to hear claims that are made that almost sound like a panacea. But like snake oil. Right, right. But the cool part is that there’s really, really high level research to support and backup this. This is not just purely anecdotal, you know? No, yeah. So it’s really powerful. 

Dr. Gair: Yeah, Yeah. Especially if you go back. Here’s the crazy thing. You know, you have all your patients say this all the time that Oh, I talked to my ortho about and they said, Oh, lasers, don’t modern science lasers. There’s no research behind them. Well, you know what, that’s an extremely ignorant statement that I securely made all the time, because if you look at the research on lasers, there’s over 10,000 studies now indexed on PubMed, that go back to the 1960s. And if you really want to look at who was the cutting edge, and it was the Russians in the Soviet Union, by 1974, they were already using low level lasers as part of their state sponsored standard medical care. So that’s like Medicare saying, Yeah, we’re gonna use this. And what did they use it for? They used it for everything. You look at the list, there’s this, there’s a study that doctors can check out called low level laser therapy in the USSR. And it talks about they’re using it even for off limits, things like cancer, like reproductive health, they’re using it on kids, they use it for dentistry, they used it to regenerate liver cells, they showed that you can stimulate hepatocyte growth factor and regenerate a damaged liver on here. If you’re using ortho and neuro, but all these other off limits things. And that’s what the Soviets were doing in the 1970s. So we’re 50 years later, and still out here in the West, you know, this is still like the frontier to where people don’t even know about this stuff. It’s almost like lasers were in the 21st, or even the Star Trek centuries. And a lot of modern medicine is still deeply rooted in the 20th century.

Dr. Andrew Wells: Yeah, it’s interesting. This will be a little bit political. But we’re, as we’re, as we’re recording this podcast episode. It’s like there’s a lot of tension right now between the US and Russia with the invasion of Ukraine. Absolutely. And the interesting thing was, if you look at health, the health propaganda, health history in Russia, they didn’t adopt Western health care very much at all. In fact, they look at the outside in approach as for what it is mainly symptom relief, and disease management, and so they never really adopted the American Medical Association’s definition of what a healthcare system looked like. And when you look at Russia, they actually have been really innovative in terms of technology and also very fundamental in what they’re using in health care. Like if Yeah, right. So they had and if you look at their population, in general, they have far less Chronic disease than we do here in the US and they write, they take a fraction, a small fraction of the of the pharmaceuticals we’re taking here in the Status ship. And it’s yeah, it’s interesting. They’ve been absolutely lightyears ahead of us in terms of being free thinking and also the ability to apply the things that we know work and are studied by research to write the population in terms of public health. And that’s right. I didn’t know about laser therapy. I didn’t know that that was kind of standard procedure in Russia and it makes sense. 

Dr. Gair: I was shocked at me, you look at what they were doing with laser eye surgery. They were far ahead to where they were selling their old units to doctors in the US. And he had doctors who were doing laser eye surgery here. They were using the older generation of the Russian models, they were so far ahead. Are you looking at how Doc’s back in the 80s and 90s? Were trying to buy Russian Eastern units, you know, they were just kind of cutting edge on some of those things. We were going to be lagging behind interestingly.

Dr. Chad Woolner: I can’t help but think of that scene from Rocky for where? Yes. So he’s training. He’s out in the woods, and he’s in a bar and you know, he’s like, punching bags of weed or whatever. And then and then Drago is like getting all injected with all these like steroids, high tech equipment and everything.

Dr. Gair: Yeah, so exactly. That’s a perfect example there.

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. So I would say to tell us a little bit about your practice, you know how long you’ve been in practice. I know you’re down in the LA area. Right and maybe even talk about kind of the story of how you got connected with Erchonia and your share with him now.

Dr. Gair: Sure. Well, so story, my practice started in 1999. And like a lot of Doc’s you know, it came out that school doesn’t really prepare us for much except passing the boards, you know, you’re really your education actually begins in the trenches and what you do in your CTE seminars. So, you know, I struggled for my first few years and I started doing workers comp for a while. And then in 2002, the Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger got elected as governor here and he promised to help us. Chiropractors, you know, to move us forward because part of getting him elected was our California Chiropractic Association help with that. One of the first things he did was turn his back on us and sign legislation to carve us out of workers comp make it much, much harder. So a lot of Doc’s actually went out of business. And so this is what I had to reinvent myself, because you know, we’ve got a lot of managed care out here and the HMO payouts are just absolute garbage with a lot of paperwork. And we have looked around my office for 50 other chiropractors in less than five mile square radius, so a lot of competition. So I thought, You know what, I gotta do something different. I gotta do something to make it so I’m not dependent on insurance or on like a governor carving us out of something. So that’s what I had been seeing Dr. Dan Murphy, I know you guys just had one you know, it’s just a no, he’s an amazing, amazing fountain of knowledge. I went to seminary, his up in Northern California. And as we walked in, they had a computerized muscle testing device and range of motion device where they measured all of us doctors range of motion of the neck and the shoulders and muscle strength to upper extremity. And we got to baseline and the laser just on the neck for just a few minutes, and then read a substance and my range of motion. And all of us our range of motion and our muscle strength improved. And that was clear objective evidence to me that this laser had, you know, didn’t look that impressive, just a couple of lines of light, and I couldn’t feel anything. But that had a clear impact on me physiologically, I thought, This is it. This is the wave of the future. And then I went to a Dr. Jeff Spencer seminar. And Dr. Jeff Spencer was Lance Armstrong chiropractor on the Tour de France. And we know Lance did whatever he could to win both legal and illegal. Spencer was part of the legal side. And it’s interesting thing to going into this is that there are studies that show that there’s one of the Journal of athletic training and another of the Journal of photo by omics that said that if you if athletes get laser therapy, on a regular basis that their performance is enhanced to a level as if they had taken performance enhancing drugs. And that includes that their muscle strength, their endurance, their muscle size, their time to recover, are all are all faster. And they actually said we’re not sure that should be allowed in the Olympics because it gives people an unfair advantage. And I work with a lot of athletes. And when I learned about this unfair advantage that you can give, I’m like, shoot, I can really do a lot with this with athletes because I played high school and college football and I was always looking for an edge like how can I get an edge on someone else? And when I went to see Dr. Spencer, he asked Is there anybody in here who you know, has an old shoulder injury? I went from playing high school and college football to where I couldn’t really throw a ball like I used to when I played in tournaments, I could put a lot of emphasis on it. And I was throwing more touchdowns to the other team than I was my team. So 34 is ready to quit. And when I worked out I couldn’t do the same weight on my right side as my left. Well Dr. Spencer went through and did this. This laser when he called up regulation he had gone through his muscle. If it was weak it hit the nerve root and boom, you could feel it change its strength within a few seconds. I was blown away because then I went to the gym the next day and I had almost an even stranger on both sides and I hadn’t had that in over a decade. Then I played in the football tournament that month. And I was back to throwing the ball so hard again that it was whistling. And I was 34, I was throwing harder than I did in my 20s blew my mind. So I thought if I bring this to youth athletes, I can do some amazing things. So I started working on it with athletes, they’d come in with shoulder injuries where they’re told, okay, you’re done, you need a surgery. And we could actually not only repair that muscle, because the laser stimulates stem cells, you can get this repair. When these kids didn’t have to have surgery. Sometimes, we actually enhance the performance too. And so I started working with these athletes and kids whose seasons look like they were over. We had one this was one kid during Turner, who went from having a season over to where he doesn’t have the surgery like this ortho recommended, we get him back, he only misses like four weeks. And he becomes the MVP for the conference, his team wins at a conference championship undefeated, and he goes on to play college football with another kid who had a hamstring injury recently, who ‘s a four by 400 meters runner, and also a 400 meter 100 meter sprinter. And he thought his season was done. We get lasers on him, we do some things on his brain to improve his balance. So he stops blowing out that hamstring, he actually ends up running faster than he ever did before. And he ends up being the fastest kid in the whole US that year. And also goes down to the pan-am Jr games and sets a world record in the four by four meters and gets a gold and a bronze medal himself. And he’s been at USC running and he’ll come in kind of on his breaks from school and get to nuts on there. So we use these laces for their injuries and also to enhance their performance. And that’s kind of how I got going, worked with these youth athletes and doctors listening to it. If you don’t work with youth athletes, you are missing out on a lot because these kids and their parents see that as their ticket to getting into college. So they will happily have some athletes come in every single week for their whole high school career just to enhance their performance and prevent injuries. Because again, they see that as a ticket to college and get an education. And once you work with one athlete like when I worked with one kid who was in a batting slump because he had a concussion. The lasers on his brain did some eye movement stimulation. Because the laser works best when you also do movements and neurological stimulation. We did that. So he attracted pitches better. He went from being concussed and in a slump to leaving his conference batting. Guess what happened? What his coach saw was that the coach started sending every athlete from that team to my office. All of his teammates would come in, they come in on a regular basis. And so thanks. So we do with your Erchonia lasers, we don’t have to do any marketing. And what I would do over the years, I would share these stories with the guys that are Erchonia and what I would do with these youth athletes and I got invited to work the Dodgers angels fantasy camp, because of what I did with youth athletes. So that was really cool, because then I got to hang out with people like Rick Monday, and Bill Russell and Kenny Landro. And also from the angels, Tim salmon, I get to hang out with these guys and work on them and like to hear their stories. And it was all because of the Erchonia lasers. And so as that word spread around the nerd, Tony asked me to come in and teach for them because I used to teach junior high. And if you can teach things to junior high schoolers, you can teach them to anybody. So they asked me to come and teach a group of doctors and to simplify what you can do with lasers. And that’s what I did is that I came in and I started I created a simplified system of how to quickly get up and running with the lasers to where if you want to do just simple point, shoot things or if you want to do these more, a little more advanced recalibration systems, I took what Dr. Spencer taught me, and I just really streamlined it and simplified it. And that’s how I got started with our Erchonia. We had such a great response from webinars. We started doing our webinars in 2017. And I had a series of initial 15 webinars we did once a month. And every single one we had maximum attendance over 100 doctors on there to where they actually had to expand their podcast or their webinar capabilities to 200 just to accommodate what we’re doing. So that’s how I got my start with your Erchonia.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing, man, what a cool story. I can’t help but think of my own son . He’s on track right now. And he’s, in fact, their track four by one relay team just qualified for state. So this weekend, he’ll be at the state championships. And I’m super excited because we’re going to be getting the effects four or five here in our clinic real soon. So I’m excited to start using that with him these upcoming years.

Dr. Gair: So, we’ll definitely watch what you want to do with these athletes. But we have them all do as before they have their big like right now it was when they’re going into the you said the state championships or regional championships. We have these athletes come in like right now Zach Shinnick. That’s the kid who was the runner that I mentioned. He’s at USC, his sister Maya is racing in our local state championships right now. So she comes in a couple of days before her meeting. I go through tester muscles, if it’s weak, boom, I hit the muscle with the laser, we activate it, then we just haven’t heard, just lay down and the FX is going on the trunk and on the legs. That’s going to increase ATP. So that way she’s got more energy reserves to be able to race better, she’s going to increase glutathione so she can neutralize those free radicals. So you can increase nitric oxide so that way she’s gonna have better blood flow. So you can do that with your son, stick them under that effects for about five minutes on some of the basic frequencies and You’ll get all that enhancement with him too.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. Absolutely amazing. Super cool. Yeah. What a cool patient population to work with two young athletes motivated, driven and fighting.

Dr. Gair: Yeah, yeah, they are motivated. And what’s great isn’t you see him go off and I’ve got one of the kids now in the starting rotation for one of the major league baseball teams. And I remember working with him when he was just in high school, just the high school kid just coming in. Initially, for an injury, a common one we treat is Little League in elbow or Tommy John had injuries. He came in, in nursery for that, and then he’d stick wrenches for a team’s velocity up, he’s like, Hey, man, my Velo dropped from like, 93, it’s down to 90. And that may not sound like a big deal to a person who’s not familiar with baseball, but you drop your velocity two or three miles. That’s a huge difference for an elite pitcher. And so we would just use a laser to get his velocity backup. And you know, now he’s pitching in the majors and had another kid I work with who won a Super Bowl Championship with the Seattle Seahawks. You know, it’s just, it’s a lot of fun working with that population. And then I have another one who won a national title with Vanderbilt. And you know, these kids will fly back in and see you too, you know, when they take their breaks, because what you do with the lasers, they can’t get anywhere else, like this kid at Vandy. Number one baseball program in the US, for colleges, they’re just doing dry needling, and cupping and nothing against those things. But you compare that to putting a laser on somebody or adjusting somebody, it’s it’s it doesn’t even compare.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. What would you say to Doc’s who are hearing this, they’re excited, they’re like, Okay, this is cool. Where would you direct them in terms of next steps, either learning from you or from Erchonia? Or both? What would be some of the resources you would turn them to?

Dr. Gair: Yeah, well, definitely, you know, or Erchonia, I think this is so many things that are coming apart. You know, research is obviously a big one with all the FDA clearances that they have. That’s a unique thing that is different from any other laser. But also the other thing that no other laser company out there does for sure is the volume of seminars and webinars that we have. So a great thing to do is go onto the air Erchonia website, or konya.com, click under Events, and go out to a live seminar near you. So you can see something that’s close to you. We have a ton of great speakers, and try to sample all of us because we all have a little different, different way of doing things like Dr. Murphy is great for learning all the research behind everything to understand how lasers work. And he does really simple methods that just point and shoot, hey, get this thing laser on there and have it move it around. And that’s you know, very, very great things for a newbie, just to kind of get their feet wet and acquainted with it. And then you’ve got like, if you want to learn the neuro stuff, you go to Dr. Berry, Dr. Berry and Brock they’re actually amazing with teaching you the deep ins and outs of Functional Neurology there to really take patients to a whole other level. Dr. Silverman and I are like East Coast, West Coast versions of each other. We’re really sports oriented. And also do you know a lot of similar kinds of things. And then Dr. Dr. Ruka is amazing. As far as sports performance, he takes it to a whole other level like someone has like three day retreats are fantastic things. So I’d say get out to live one, look at what’s done on the seminar schedule, go to live one. But don’t wait for that either. We’ve got a ton of webinars that you can do. So talk to your local rep. And ask them for our old webinars like I have one that I’ve done, that I’m really proud of, it’s a four hour what I say like remote hands on laser seminars. So I created this four hour seminar, where I’ve got an hour of technique videos in there. And I will show you both point and shoot techniques that if you’re brand new, like you’re just getting your FX, you look at these videos in there, and you’re like, how do I do this on a net? Well, I’m gonna show you exactly what what I do with a neck with just the laser, and just a precursor and an engine adjuster tool to where it’s fresh out of the box, you’re brand new and lasers, you can do that for a neck, for a low back for knee for an ankle for carpal tunnel for an elbow for shoulder, whatever. I’ve got videos in there and that I’ve also got the more advanced ones of those Dr. Spencer kind of protocols or what I call laser neuro recalibration to where you can test the muscle and how do you actually reset it and blow a patient’s mind. That is one that you definitely want to learn about. And again, just ask your rep for my four hour hands on webinar, because in that one, the goal when the patient comes in is you want to blow their mind so they never go anywhere else because no one else can compare to what you do. So I have a patient come in, let’s say with a shoulder injury, and I haven’t gone through their range of motion or whatever it is painful. And then I’ll tell him, hey, look, what I’m gonna do on you next, it’s gonna look weird, it’s going to look like some kind of voodoo or magic trick because I’m gonna test your muscles can be weak, I’m gonna laser it for me to five or 10 seconds. And in most cases, it should strengthen up and you’re going to wonder if I’m pushing differently. But then I’m going to have you go through a throwing motion or a movement that just hurts you. And you should see at least like a 20 or 30% improvement. I go through and I do this and time after time people’s eyes pop out of their heads. They’re like, What the hell is this? This is like Star Trek or something. And then usually the family members who are with them want to come in. So definitely if you want to learn that that will generate a lot of referrals. That’s how we do zero marketing. Yet we stay booked out at least a week or two in advance and we get a flood of new patients without doing any marketing. See, that’s a great place to start.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s awesome. Dr. Wells, any questions you have?

Dr. Andrew Wells: Oh, good. Sorry, Go, ahead, doctor. 

Dr. Gair: I do want to jump in on one thing that I left out here is when I talked about the brain I want to backtrack a bit to if it’s not just for patients with Hashimotos. It’s also like these athletes who’ve had concussions, they’re not being assessed very well by their pediatricians, they the pediatricians usually aren’t aware of the long term impacts of concussions for not only sports performance, but school performance. We regularly get the lasers on these kids’ brains to help them recover and also prevent the secondary impact. Now, we also do this too, for elderly patients or Kony is doing studies on Alzheimer’s, they’ve done a study before on Parkinson’s that shows improvements. And especially when you get the laser on the brain of a patient who’s neuro degenerating. If you pulse it at 40 hertz, their studies show that you can actually break up the amyloid beta and the tau proteins holdings in there. So we have patients and my wife says, Oh, you basically laser people through lifespan. And that’s what my new seminars call this lasering through the lifespan as we get people coming in as kids working on them with their concussions, as adults dealing with you know, whatever kind of autoimmunity may be exploding on them. And then in the elderly, with whatever kind of neurodegeneration is going on, we’ll get the lasers on their brains to try to slow down that progress and to keep them better functioning, and to be a better, more productive member of their family.

Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s an amazing doctor here, I’m trying to think of questions for you. But I don’t have questions because my brain is swimming in potential. Everything you can do, yeah, yeah. That was the whole purpose of this podcast episode, were all the different things that you can do with laser therapy. And I really meant as you’re talking, you do such a good job of bringing these concepts to life, and really, really appreciate the examples that you’ve given. And we have and next, our next guest is Dr. Dan Murphy, who’s on the next episode, we already recorded that episode, but a very similar episode, like my hair is my hair is blown back because I’m just like, Man, there are so many different ways that you can use this amazing therapy. And it’s such a good sync with the chiropractic philosophy and mindset, right, because it’s always inside out approaches and above down inside out approaches. And that’s an amazing tool to bolster what we’re doing with chiropractic care in a totally different way. 

Dr. Gair: Yeah. Oh, it really is. And you know, one thing I didn’t mention too, is you can use these pre and post off on patients to the or Kony lasers have FDA clearances for that. And so, you know, I had one patient who was a high school athlete, and she got injured her junior year in high school wrestling. A really pretty sweet girl but a beast on the wrestling mat, but she got a terrible Tria to her knee where it was her ACL MCL. And the meniscus got torn and when her mom showed me the video, you could hear it rip from the stance. And you know, she goes down crying and she goes to see the ortho in the summer between junior and senior year and the ortho says out it’s a massive surgery we have to do you’re gonna be out nine to 12 months. So she’s of course in tears because there goes her senior season or hopes of the rest of the college. Well, they came in because they’d heard about me helping this kid who won a national championship in France clean with Northview High School, when his knee had a similar injury. We actually saw that his parents used to call me Mr. Miyagi. They say Doctor care, we need your Mr. Miyagi wax on wax off with lasers because Brian got hurt, or, you know, before his championship, and we would actually laser him it would keep them going just enough to where he won a national title with his knee torn up. But then, when he had the surgery, supposed to be out for six months, we got him back in six weeks by, you know, doing lasers on him. So she’d heard about this. They said, Look, my daughter sports at nine to 12 months, can you accelerate this and this is where I really love working with these youth athletes if they’re motivated to do whatever you tell them. So I said, Yes, we can. As long as you come in with a frequency I tell you to eat what I tell you to and you take the supplements I teach you. They said okay, we’ll do it all. So they talk to the doctor into allowing her to take this agility test, which is four months, which is right before resting season. He’s telling her No way. No one has ever passed it faster than nine months after this, this surgery, this will never happen. What we did with her is we did the pre op laser sessions for about three weeks before she went in for surgery. The goal with that is to get the tissue as healthy as possible. You still get a lot of glutathione ATP, nitric oxide, stem cells, etc. And then she went in for the surgery. We did post op as soon as she could get out. She came in and we got the laser right on her to accelerate the repair and recovery. Then we did our Phase Three of rehab, which is where we strengthen up the muscles with a laser. And what happened was she was allowed to take that test after only four months. The ortho said you’re never going to pass this you’ve got to run, jump crawl, squat, climb, it’s such as to just understand you’re not gonna be able to pass this well. She passed it with flying colors, and he was blown away and all the physical therapists were blown away as well to their like, we’ve never had anybody pass it sooner than nine months you just did it for and the daughter and the mambo Symbaloo saw Doctor care for laser therapy. And of course the ortho and the PT poo pooed it and that’s the cool thing is that they never become you. They never become your competition because they’re just doubting Thomases no matter how much proof they just won’t become your competition. But these athletes knew it and she went on and she was able to compete her senior year and won her league championship and competed in the State championship and went off to wrestling college. So you know, the laser it changes lives it changes the practice of The Doctor makes their life easier, makes practice fun and more exciting. And you think about it with desperate patients like this girl Briana, she wouldn’t have never been able to wrestle her junior or senior year, that kid door and he doesn’t play football his senior year doesn’t get a scholarship to college. And then it becomes an Al Bundy of you know, man, I could have done this poll chi, you know, and here you’re doing things, you’re changing lives. We’re gonna do what to do with my wife, you know, went from being bedridden to playing tennis and you’re later we do these things over and over again with patients or kids who are concussed who are unable to go to school and you know, to get their lives back. And it’s just, I can’t say enough about how exciting it is to use lasers in practice. 

Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, your passion shines through for sure. And it’s exciting, man. It’s super cool to hear the rest of the stories and I no doubt for our Doc’s. It’s got to be exciting for them to to think about the possibilities and implications and or application of these lasers for them and their practices. 

Dr. Gari: Yeah, well, such an amazing man, then their patient, their patients will think that as well, too, because I get tagged online on social media all the time. Whatever they see, someone’s got to know you got to see Dr. Gari, he can fix it. He can’t fix it. No one can with Hey, Ryan and his magical lasers.

Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing. Well, Dr. Gari, we sincerely appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be here and kind of sharing your experiences. And yeah. So for Doc’s wanting to learn more from you go to Erchonia at checkout. Are you doing up for a seminar here pretty soon?

Dr. Gari: Yes, I’m going to be in Detroit in June. And then I’m going to Puerto Rico in July. I’m doing the first ever Erchonia seminar in Spanish, I know and will in Spanish. So I’m doing a four hour presentation there. The other thing dogs can do, I have a Facebook group. For those who aren’t anti social media. There are some dogs we have in the group who are only there because of my group. It’s called Dr. Gari, laser therapy, treatment and marketing secrets. And we’ve got about 540 doctors there. And what’s really cool is it’s an interactive group. So it’s not like I’m the guru teaching everybody. All these Doc’s are sharing their information and what they’ve experienced throughout the years. So you know, Doc’s can feel free to post questions in there. And it’ll get answered only by me, but by other doctors who’ve got, you know, 15 or 20 years of experience as well. And then ducks will refer patients back and forth. Hey, I got a, I had a patient that a friend member in Chicago who’s in Chicago that I can send him to awesome, who’s got this laser does this kind of thing. So it’s a really fun interactive thing. We got some videos there. And that’s where we also announced upcoming seminars and webinars.

Dr. Chad Woolner: We’ll make it, we’ll make sure we put a link to that in the show notes so that if Doc’s want to check it out, they totally should. That’s awesome. So that’s it. All right, Doc’s well, that wraps up this episode. And we hope that this has been incredibly valuable for you. It’s been awesome. It’s been fantastic for us. So we will chat with you guys on the next episode. Have an amazing day. We’ll talk to you later. 



Thanks for listening to the laser light show, be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about our Erchonia lasers, just head on over to Erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as the Erchonia community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.