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Podcast Ep. 74: Elevating Veterinary Health with Dr. Rachel Starr

laser light show

Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, what’s going on everybody? Dr. Chad Woolner here with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and on today’s episode of the laser light show we have with us, Dr. Rachel Starr, a veterinarian, we are so excited to be able to chat with her. So let’s get to it. 





Dr. Andrew Wells

Dr. Chad Woolner

Dr. Rachel Starr


Dr. Chad Woolner: Growing up in Portland, Oregon, I used to love going to laser light shows at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. They would put on these amazing light shows with incredible designs synced up to some of my favorite music. From the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Jimmy Hendrix and Metallica; they were awesome. Little did I know then that lasers would have such a profound effect on my life decades later. As a chiropractic physician, I have seen first-hand just how powerful laser therapy is in helping patients struggling with a wide range of health problems. As the leader in laser therapy, Erchonia has pioneered the field in obtaining 20 of the 23 total FDA clearances for therapeutic application of lasers. On this podcast, we’ll explore the science and technology and physiology behind what makes these tools so powerful. Join me as we explore low level laser therapy. I’m Dr. Chad Woolner along with my good friend Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to The Laser Light Show. 


Explore the transformative power of Erchonia Vet Laser Systems, providing non-invasive, pain-free solutions for equine, canine, feline, and avian medical conditions, ensuring harmless treatment, quick recovery, and optimal animal well-being—click now to learn more!


Dr. Chad Woolner: All right, welcome to the show, everyone. And a special welcome to Dr. Rachel Starr. Rachel, good to have you here with us.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Thanks for having me.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. So, at this point in the podcast’s history, I have to say we’re probably on the fourth or fifth veterinarian that we’ve interviewed. Is that right, Andrew? Sounds about right. Yeah. Which is exciting because I want to see the shift, you know, to where we start hearing a lot more from the veterinarian world? Because it sure seems or feels like the world of low-level laser therapy is really starting to grow within the veterinarian world just as much, or at least at an even greater speed of implementation as it has in the human counterpart world. Is that what you’re seeing, Dr. Starr?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Yeah, well, we’ve had lasers; I’ve had a laser for 12 years. I’ve been using them for quite some time. And it does work on anything with mitochondria. So that pretty much encompasses everything that I work on. Oh, for sure.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, absolutely. Um, where do you practice?


Dr. Rachel Starr: I live in Traverse City, Michigan, and I work out of two clinics. And I am the holistic veterinarian for each of those clinics. So I specialize in non-pharmaceutical treatments or non-invasive treatments.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Do you see a similar dynamic in your realm of what we’ll just again, and it may not be this distinct and separate in the kind of human counterpart world? There is still, I think, very much to this distinction and separation between what people would designate as kind of traditional medical, and then this massive bucket of like, alternative, complementary integrative all these different synonyms, holistic things like that. Do you see a similar dynamic in the veterinarian world as well?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Absolutely. Although lasers are the one thing that has become well accepted in the general community, unlike in human medicine. Most, a lot of, I won’t say most, a lot of conventional veterinary clinics at this point have laser therapy. But there’s a lot of misinformation in the veterinary community because we don’t have FDA regulation. And so there’s a lot of class three B and class four laser therapy done. Because we don’t have to have FDA clearances to make claims.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Okay. Wow, that’s interesting. For those who are listening versus those who are watching this. Dr. Starr does have a guest. I don’t know if you can hear a little bit of wiggle there. But you have a guest with us. Who’s the guest?


Dr. Rachel Starr: I do. This is my five-year-old Datsun puck. And he, um, if my lap is available, that’s where he’s going to.


Dr. Chad Woolner: I think Dachshunds are absolutely adorable. Our friend here in town has this Dachshund that is just the sweetest, cutest dog. They are just so darn adorable. So yes. They’re vocal though. Are they? They do a lot of singing for you?


Dr. Rachel Starr: He barks. Yeah, yeah. So I’m sorry if you hear him? No, no, that’s great. Sleeping on my lap. He won’t contribute.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, that’s awesome. Fantastic.


Dr. Andrew Wells: What is it in your practices? What types of patients are you seeing?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, I do the majority; 80% of the training that I do is with nutrition. So I see a lot of patients where we are working on whole food diets. And we’re trying to do fresh food diets instead of kibble, which is really processed food. If you think about it, and I have a lot of owners on the human side of things who wouldn’t eat processed foods for themselves, but they’ll feed their dog kibble, which is kind of the ultimate in processed food and isn’t macronutrient really balanced to what we know we should do for dogs and cats. For carnivores, I should say that many carbohydrates, carnivores, and then I treat specifically with nutritional supplements, and I adjust, and I do laser therapy. So when I look at what is this problem, and what am I trying to address in this animal, I oftentimes use the analogy for people of building a house. So if we’re trying to rebuild this structure in your animal, we would need both the raw materials to do that, right? That would be nutrition. And sometimes we need the workers as well. And that would be laser therapy. And so every time we laser, we’re going to go from maybe two workers to four workers to six workers. And so we’re going to get that done faster; we need to put in the right components. And then we need to give the animal the ability to use those components with the laser.


Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s a great analysis.


Dr. Andrew Wells: I always thought for pet owners, we think of pets as our family, yet we feed them stuff, like you mentioned that we would never feed ourselves. And if you look at like, I remember I went to school, I remember to school close to a Purina factory. And it was like, the odor that came out of this place was horrible. And it was, you know, mainly corn, you know, GMO corn and all this stuff. And, and I’m like, Man, that’s, you know, that’s pretty awful stuff. When you look at the food that’s sitting on like your grocery store shelf, and these huge bags, like most people, I think, would know that that’s not the right thing to be putting in their families.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Right. Except for we’ve been telling people for about 40 years that that’s the right thing to put into their pet. Yeah. And so a lot of people, it’s just a lack of knowledge, right as we gain more knowledge. Just like in processed foods, we killed a lot of people in the 80s with margarine because that was the recommendation that was made. And I think that would be a very similar view to what we see right now, as far as I have many people who come in and say, Oh, my dog never gets any people food. And I say, since when do people corner the market on fresh foods, right? That’s an end. And they kind of because they’re doing healthy things for themselves. They have this like epiphany, where they’re like, Oh, my God, you’re right, you know. And then we can have a conversation about what we can do to make their pet healthier.


Dr. Andrew Wells: Years ago, maybe 15 years ago, I bought, I saw an article on Dr. Mercola. His website, it was promoted by a veterinarian. Her name was Dr. Becker, if I remember right, but I bought her book, and the whole book was like how to make how to make your own pet food. Rob, and I bought it and actually started the process and I, you know, full honesty, like I started I’m like, This is really hard. And we’re, we’re at a stage in our life where I’m like, I just need to worry about, like my wife and I eating healthy. And that was like our primary focus. And so we kind of retreated back to well, we won’t do kibble, but we will like we just, we found like, we actually were very close to a great pet food store that had done for you like raw foods and done for you healthy foods that were not, you know, not your traditional appearing like food and our Yeah, are our cats. They never, they didn’t really have any, like chronic diseases or tumors growing their body that I’ve seen with my friends, pets, like all kinds of weird growth that’s there on these four animals. Like I’m sure you’ve seen tons of it, like do you see like tumors and like all kinds of joint issues in arthritis and lack of energy and like, that’s directly related to the crap food that we give our pets.


Dr. Rachel Starr: All the things that stem from inflammation in the gut? Yeah, absolutely. imbalanced microbiome.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, everything you’re talking about. I can’t help but see the very direct and clear correlation in the human realm. You know, in the human world, everything we’re talking about shouldn’t surprise us, and yet for some reason, I’m like, oh, yeah, you know, like connecting these dots back to biology is biology, whether it’s a human or a dog or a cat. And I understand that specifically, there are certain different mechanisms and anatomical differences, da, obviously.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Right? But you already have chronic disease in dogs is the same as chronic disease in people right down to back pain. Yeah, yeah. And probably the number one thing I use a laser for is back pain in the clinic.


Dr. Chad Woolner: And that’s got to be so cool to see. Right? Because my guess is similar, again, similar to humans, you probably see pets kind of dragging in or being carried in, you know, then being able to maybe describe that for those who are watching or listening. What does a typical scenario look like in terms of that back pain? Yeah, just uh, yeah, so pet owner, what does that what does a classic case look like, you know, the pet owner, you know, drags the animal and carries the animal in, the animal can hardly walk or whatever. And then how many sessions all that fun stuff?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, it depends on the degree of back pain, just like in people. There are people who just barely move or, you know, that can’t get out of bed. Well, who just live with their back pain on a daily basis, right. So it can look like anything from the pet all of a sudden stops eating. And because they’re painful, they won’t eat, they can’t, or they can’t put their head down, or they can’t, you know, to get into a bowl. They usually come in hunched, like they’re guarded, their back is hunched up, you know, when you go down their back, they flinch. Or sometimes they’ll even cry, or if you move their neck, that sometimes it’s not, just like people could be cervical, could be thoracic, could be lumbar, actually lumbo sacral pain is really, really common. And, or to the extent where you have a herniated disc, and that’s impinging on the spinal cord, it could be nonambulatory. In the hind end, they could be dragging behind and not be able to move it. And that’s actually, if they don’t have deep pain, that’s a surgical procedure in order to get that because you’ve lost the entire spinal cord. And you have to do it quickly. So there’s all varying degrees of and most of them are dogs standing conch doesn’t want to move much, not eating. And then, you know, I see I see really varying degrees of response, or how many lasers does it take? That varies from animal to animal? I think, again, it comes down to what are their reserves, and what is their ability to respond? And I people always ask me how frequently we should do it too. And my other analogy is, so if we’re going to climb a ladder, I don’t know exactly how many rungs on the ladder. But if we’re gonna climb a ladder, the more frequently you laser, you’re gonna go up a rung every time that we laser the animal. And so the question is, how fast do you want to climb the laser? Or the ladder? Right?


Dr. Chad Woolner: the laser ladder.


Dr. Rachel Starr: The laser ladder. Exactly. So, when we, I generally start those dogs, we have packages of lasers in the clinic and I usually started with a package of six. And part of that is going to depend on how often an owner can get a dog into the clinic right? Unfortunately, we don’t have a rental program, I would love to have a rental laser. But we don’t yet in our clinic I’m working on that. So they, they work and they, you know, people work, some people can get, some people are retired and that’s, you know, their baby, they can bring it in and we can do two days even. So, that depends on the owner and what the owner is able to do, but I generally start with six and then I reassess. Are we continuing to get benefit? Is the dog doing really well? You know, do I think it needs more?


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s fantastic.


Dr. Andrew Wells: What types of, so what specific lasers are you guys using in your clinics?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Um, so I have, um, I have a base station with two red and a violet, Violet red. And I personally at home have the first laser we bought. I bought from the clinic when we bought a base station for the clinic. So I have a PL 5000, which is an old red light, 635 nanometer and at home I also have a GVL so I do sometimes bring my GVL to work and use it on animals.


Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s fantastic,


Dr. Rachel Starr: though I do have but in the clinic At each clinic, I have red and violet.


Dr. Chad Woolner: So you’ve been using the laser for 12 years, maybe tell us a little bit more about how you discovered how you came across lasers, what maybe your initial thoughts were in reaction was and some of the experiences that you had that really ultimately brought you into this world in the first place.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Um, so when I first started to learn about lasers, was when I was learning how to adjust dogs. And I took, I took Bill and men’s course in veterinary orthopedic manipulation. And then he talked about laser therapy. And I was open to that. I was open-minded to that; that’s part of being able to move on to different modalities is to be open-minded to them. So, so I started to do research on lasers, and I had some sales reps come in for class a class four, laser a class three, B, and I talked to the people that Erchonia. And I went, I did some research on how lasers worked, and how I could implement them in the different, you know, types of things that lasers could be used for. And it seemed like I wanted a red light laser. And with really low wattage was what my research led me to believe. And now, it was significantly less expensive for somebody who doesn’t own a clinic, I didn’t own the clinic, I had to go to my boss and ask him if I could, you know, to buy me a laser, here’s, you know, 1000s of dollars to spend on something that I’m going to use. And he said, you know, do your research on it. And as long as you’re using it and billing for it, I’ll buy it for you. So I said I promised to use it and bill for it. And I did, and I was getting really good responses. And so about two years into it, the we have we have a group of people that come to that clinic, we have some affluent people, we have some less affluent people. And when you’re talking about things like a cruise ship tear, like an ACL and people dogs have a cranial cruciate ligament, which tears just like people, and some people can’t afford that, at that time is about $1,500 to $2,000 to do that surgery, but I could laser them and get a nonleague dog in about three months, which is about the same period of time, not every dog, but many of them. So this was so expensive option for people who didn’t have the money to be able to pursue like, you know, the gold standard care. And, and I was having some good success with that type of thing. So two years later, I was at a laser conference. And I had told my boss that I really wanted the violet laser eye, because I just had read. And I was transporting this laser back and forth between the two clinics; he owned both of them. And so I was only billing on the days that I was there. But I was like, I can write a protocol. I can bill when I’m not even in the clinic. And he was like, okay, so um, I called him from the conference because of course, there was a conference special. And I said, if we buy a base station, you know, this is the special and he said, Well, what if we buy two? And I said, What do you mean by two? He said, Don’t you want the violet light in both clinics? And I said, Of course I do. And he said, Well, we’ll trade in the old one and and then I’ll buy you a base station for each clip. So clearly I was billing enough for it right that he saw the value here. And then I and then I, we came home, we got the base stations. But we had a technician at that time that was doing rehab in house post surgeries for animals that had orthopedic surgeries. And she was carrying the PL five with her which was transplant transportable, and she didn’t want to give it up. And so we ended up sending sending Erchonia a check for that one too. That’s awesome. And turn it in that we had three lasers. And then that original pl 5000 is now mine. At for my personal use at home for my animals and my children and my self and my husband.


Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s amazing.


Dr. Andrew Wells: That’s, that’s, that’s amazing. Yeah, it’s nice. It’s a nice perk of the job to get those via the old half lasers that you can produce. Yeah. Yeah, you get to take them home. It’s nice. All right.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, and I bought I bought it from the clinic but because again, it’s not my clinic. But that laser has been used. I mean, that’s a 12 year old laser. I’m still using it on a regular basis. And you know, my kids play sports We have some injuries. And I’ve it works really well in people too. I’ve, I’ve had some kids are amazing if you if you laser them while they’re doing range of motion, you can see increased range of motion while you’re lasering them. Yeah,


Dr. Chad Woolner: absolutely. I’m curious to, to know what difference you saw when you added violet into the equation as well as just read write, because you had how many years of just utilizing read without the vital two years? So tell us maybe a little bit about what started to change what, what, what things you saw into the equation or to the mix once Viola was added in the equation? And green too for that matter now too


Dr. Rachel Starr: Well, yeah, I have under the green one for very long. So we’ve been on the market since I bought it in February. Okay. Okay. I was excited for that. I see, you know, I see very good outcomes. And sometimes all you need is red, but I rarely just use red, I use a violet laser on just about everything. I personally feel like the violet laser is so underutilized in veterinary medicine, this is where we need to get education out to people because, you know, in a day and age where we have infectious issues. So one of the things that I noticed with the violet is I within treating, you know, I can treat skin infections, I can treat and even I’ve had some very good responses with animals that are not responding to antibiotics and clearing up skin infections and autoimmune disease. It seems like adding that violet laser in there really makes a difference with skin autoimmune disease. So I’m Violet, we need to be using violet, you know, we are getting antibiotic resistance we have Mersa we have in we have in the veterinary world. Pseudomonas is our kind of Nemesis when it comes to infections. And this is a tool that we have, that there’s no risk for, and that we can maybe reduce our use of antibiotics. So from that sample, and you know, fungus, we can treat fungus, especially since kita. connoisseur, which is our major drug against fungal infections, can cause liver issues in pets. So I really think the violet laser is a huge benefit that we need to be educating people more on.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Do you see a similar pattern or kind of trajectory? If that’s the right word of antibiotic overuse in pets, similar to animals? Because that’s been for the past probably five to 10 years, for those who are listening, have a voice of major concern is this idea that like, the more that we over, prescribe and overuse those drugs unnecessarily, it’s creating a problem or kicking the can down the road further and further and further, when we should really be starting to address it now, because this is what’s driving a lot of the resistant strains of things. Are you seeing a similar pattern in the veterinary world?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Yeah, definitely. So I have been to and going to conferences in the, I’m seeing more and more continuing education programs and conference speakers and conferences and things like that, talking about what we can do instead of antibiotics to try to decrease antibiotic resistance. And, we aren’t coming up with new antibiotics; they’re not new antibiotics coming on the market. We need to find other ways to deal with infections. I mean, being healthier and eating better is also a part of that, a little earlier. But this is a tool that I don’t understand why we’re not used. It’s very well researched, and we know it has efficacy from everything from COVID. To, you know, ringworm and to Mersa. So why we’re not using that? It’s just, I think it’s just an education issue, which I’m trying now. I’m trying to educate more people on using the violet laser as another tool in the fight against antibiotic resistance.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Boy, it’s interesting. We interviewed Dr. Rob Silverman, who obviously isn’t a veterinarian, but he was talking about how in humans, and I can’t imagine it being any different than pets, of how the violet can really help increase anti-inflammatory cytokines to help with resolving chronic inflammation. And so it’s kind of cool because you have this kind of one-two combo punch between the red and the violet. The red will help knock down some of the pro-inflammatory mediators. And then on top of that, if you’ve got the violet, which obviously helps with inflammation from the anti-inflammatory side, but also from the pro-resolving side of things. I think it was interleukin 10 that he talked about that violet helps increase. I’m assuming similarly in pets, that’s the same sort of idea of what we’re seeing there, too.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Yes, yeah. You would, and we’re looking at trying to decrease inflammation, increase immune response, and then directly with the violet kill off, you know, some of those invasive organisms. Yeah. I don’t understand why we, you know, during the COVID epidemic, why didn’t we have a violet-red laser in every ER or ICU? It’s really a tool that is being underutilized and was even researched on that.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, yeah. There’s a lot of research. Right.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Right. And that, you know, that’s what people are dying from. Right, right. Yeah, ionization.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Cytokine storm, that was the big conversation. Yeah, everybody’s heard that term over and over and over again. You know, the thing that’s so cool about the violet is that, unlike ultraviolet, which there’s always the potential risk there of too much. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. The 405 nanometer wavelength is the sweet spot, so to speak, you know, that you’re getting all the benefits without any of the potential drawbacks or risks that can come about from ultraviolet. Right. And so, yeah, that’s huge. So very, very cool that you’re seeing that? Yes.


Dr. Rachel Starr: I do similar things in people, you know, again, we all have mitochondria.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Right? Yeah. No doubt.


Dr. Andrew Wells: Dr. Star, do you have any favorite kind of testimony stories or outcome stories with patients that come to mind over the last 12 years using lasers with patients?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Um, so, I mean, I integrate so many different modalities together lasers is one of is one of the many tools in my toolbox. Um, so I would say the most recently I had a dog who we were working with trying to, she, I think she had autoimmune disease. The owner didn’t have the finances for us to be able to do a biopsy to confirm that. But she had been on antibiotics for six weeks, and initially, she got a little bit better. And she had these big open sores on her all over her body. She was miserable. She was hunched up in her legs, her front legs were really painful, which again, is why I think she had autoimmune disease, like lupus or something like that. And she plateaued off and her improvement she did initially improve with antibiotic therapy over the first two weeks. When I saw her a couple of weeks later, she well at two weeks, she looked good. At four weeks, she looked like she was not much better than when I’d seen her at two weeks. And so I started lasering her with the red back well with red, multiple red and red violet. And, um, the next time she came in, she looks significantly better. So we lasered her again, and we were only lasering her every two weeks because she had two-week follow-ups, we had financial constraints. And all of her skin healed up after three or four laserings. So after, so she had, and I even took her off of antibiotics because I didn’t see any reason to continue killing off her microbiome if it wasn’t helping her any further. So the laser, they’re really turned around her skin condition and her, she just, she walked in, she wasn’t hunched, you know, or timeout painful dogs, whether hunched and they, you know, she didn’t want me to touch her joints and her front legs and that she started to stand up more upright. She was more interactive. She let me touch her more. She clearly felt a lot better. And the only thing there, and that particular one, the only thing that I had added was laser therapy for her. And I’ve had many, I’ve had many dogs they were it works very well. I had another, I had a dog where, in the very beginning, he was a show dog. And he was three years old. And he was at a show in Ohio. And he, he partially tore his cruciate ligament. And the owner called, and you probably don’t know this about show dogs, but once they have surgery, they can’t be shown anymore.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Oh, really? Yeah.


Dr. Rachel Starr: So the owner lived in our area, was one of our clients. And he called and said that, you know, the dog tore a cruciate ligament. Was there any option other than surgery because he wanted him to be able to remain a show dog? And, and, and FYI, he was an Australian cattle dog. And he was a working dog. He worked cattle on the owner’s farm. So he was a working dog as well as the show dog. And he was being shown because he was put up for stud. So the owner was making money off of him as a stud. And I said, Well, you know, I just got this laser, and we can try that and see. And he was not lame within five lasering. And we did more because I wanted to make sure he healed well, we held him back. He didn’t work or do anything for about three months or so. And he never had surgery; he returned to being a show dog. And he continued to work cattle on that owner’s farm. And because this was a really long time ago, I happen to know the end of this story. He worked cattle till he was about 10 years old. And he was euthanized at about 13 and a half.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah, that’s great. What a neat story. Yeah, that’s incredible.


Dr. Rachel Starr: I had another one who was a dock jumper. And so he’s an athlete as well. And there’s a difference between lasering athletes right and or in working on athletes, we have a different expectation for the outcome than we do with a family pet who mostly lays on the couch. You know, he was a dock jumper, and he wasn’t performing as well, and the owner noticed some swelling in the carpus. And she had taken him to a chiropractor and had adjusted, she took him to a rehab that he’d been lasered with a class three B laser, she took him to another rehab that he was lasered with a class four laser. So she was seeing me for nutrition. And when she came into me, she told me that he’d been through all of this already. But she was still the current swelling in the carpus was still there. And I said, Well, let me try my laser on. And she said he’s been lasered already. I said, but that was my laser. Yeah. And we lasered him. And she called the next day and bought a package of lasers because the swelling went down, overnight.


Dr. Chad Woolner: That’s such an important story there; all the stories are fantastic. Thank you for sharing those. But I wanted to take a minute to drill down on that. We know that this podcast is sponsored by and brought to everybody by Erchonia. That’s like a no-brainer, right? But it really is true when we say that not all lasers are created equal. Patients need to hear that, practitioners do too, right? Thank goodness that you have no doubt the pet owner is probably so incredibly grateful that you still press that issue. Because it could have been very easy for you to be like, well, they’ve already tried laser. I don’t want to bother, you know what I mean? I don’t want to pressure them or bother them. And yet you have the, I don’t even want to say tenacity, right? The willingness to press that issue a little bit and say, you know, no, you haven’t tried these lasers, you know, and that would have been a very easy thing to just drop the subject. I don’t want to bother her. She’s probably already tried all the secrets. You know what I mean?


Dr. Rachel Starr: Yes. Well, I remember back when I did all the research on laser therapy. Yeah, it didn’t search. I didn’t do the research not to incorporate that into the way that I practice. Right. And so I think, I think it’s important to understand, like I said, in the veterinary community, we don’t have that regulation over class three B and class four to that they can make whatever claims that they want to, and the class four lasers have done a very good job of marketing so that people think class four means better, not more dangerous. Yes. And really, class four just means more dangerous. It doesn’t. It doesn’t mean anything else, right? And so, um, I think that that’s something that we need to correct. As far as information goes in the veterinary community is understanding what the laser classification system is. It’s a hazard system, that’s it wrong. And that it doesn’t have anything to do with efficacy and that more power is not always better. So I’ll tell you another analogy that I use. Yeah. And dosage in that is if you were going to take an antibiotic, right, no infection, and I said, take one twice a day for 10 days. It wouldn’t make any sense for you to take 10 twice a day for two days. Right.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Right.


Dr. Rachel Starr: So when we look at dosage, we need to apply dosage correctly.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Dosing matters.


Dr. Rachel Starr: Oh, so true. And lasers as it isn’t medications? Yeah.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Absolute great, great point. We were talking to a practitioner who had spoken with a patient who had been to a clinic where the practitioner had set up a class four laser on a stand, so it didn’t move, and expected the patient to move. Which is just like, Insanity, which is just crazy to hear that. But man, that’s, that’s crazy. But though so true, what you share there in terms of dosing matters, efficacy matters, Research Matters, you know, and good on you for taking the time to do that to really research for the betterment of your patients, right? Because it does, it makes a huge difference. So


Dr. Rachel Starr: I think we so often we just want somebody to teach us how to use something and then integrate it instead of understanding how it works. And it’s so important to understand how things work in order to get the maximum benefit out of


Dr. Chad Woolner: it. Absolutely. Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. Dr. Starr, we certainly appreciate you taking time to be with us on this episode. This has been super awesome. We’ve kind of talked a little bit about a lot of different areas, a lot on violet laser in the vet community, which is super exciting, as it is in the human realm as well. Andrew, any final thoughts?


Dr. Andrew Wells: I just want to point out the fact that whether you’re working with humans or animals, a lot of the practitioners I’ve found that have adopted lasers into their practice, they don’t get rid of them, they tend to add more to them. And so Dr. Sar has been in practice for some time but using lasers for 12 years and I imagined Doctor sir, that’s laser therapy is probably not something you’re planning on getting rid of anytime soon, I imagined.


Dr. Rachel Starr: No. I, like I said, I would like to have some to rent out because for the people who can’t clinic regularly, we can get them out of pain faster, if we can send them home and they can do it at home.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Yeah. And to that into Andrea, I wanted to point out as well, you mentioned this doctor star, but I want to highlight it again, you’re still using to this day, the same laser you initially invested in 12 years ago, I don’t know I really truly don’t know if I can make that same kind of claim with other pieces of equipment, I’ve had pieces of equipment come and go. And so that’s a true testament to the caliber and quality of the products that Erchonia makes that you know that again, what can happen is either a the product wears down, breaks down, etc., etc., and or B, some technologies just over time become irrelevant. And yet here we are. The quote unquote old technology is still utilizing the same wavelength of light is still getting great results for you and your practice. That should tell practitioners who are who are considering whether they’re a vet or a human practitioner. When you invest in an Erchonia laser, you can rest assured 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 years from it’ll still be just as relevant in terms of that should be very comforting and reassuring and give them significant peace of mind.


Dr. Rachel Starr: So yes, my other two my two base stations that are in the two clinics are 10 years old. So and you know, I would love the new touchscreen technology is a software that’s changed, right? Yeah. Great to have the touchscreen technology. They’re smaller. They’re they’re, you know, they are different than but but why would you spend, you know, $30,000 to replace a piece of equipment that works just fine.


Dr. Chad Woolner: Right? You’re getting great results. That’s incredible. So, so good. So well again, thank you for being here with us Dr. Starr, we really do appreciate it. Thank you for sharing your experience and your wisdom and the incredible stories and We hope that those listening, whether they be veterinarians, whether they be other practitioners, whether they be patients. Hopefully, they’re learning about some of these powerful alternatives to help solve some of these problems that, quite frankly, far too few know about. And so this is just one kind of one other drop in the bucket in terms of helping to spread that message, which is still vital to get out to, to the world. And so we appreciate what you’re doing in your realm and in your sphere. And we hope again, those listening got value out of this, we would encourage you to share this with others. And we will talk to you all on the next episode. Have a good one. Thanks for listening to the laser light show, be sure to subscribe and give us a review. If you’re interested in learning more about Erchonia lasers, just head on over to erchonia.com. There you’ll find a ton of useful resources including research news and links to upcoming live events, as well as are Coleus e community where you can access for free additional resources including advanced training and business tools. Again, thanks for listening and we will catch you on the next episode.



On today’s episode of the Laser Light Show we sit down with Dr. Rachel Starr.  Dr. Starr graduated from Michigan State University in 2000 and has been a part of the Suttons Bay and Elk Rapids Animal Hospitals since September 2005. She enjoys relieving pain and discomfort of an animal and helping restore the family relationship with the pet. Dr. Starr is particularly interested in Veterinary Orthopedic Manipulation (VOM), laser therapy and nutrition. At home, she has an English Creme Retriever named Esca, and a horse named Mickey. Gardening, horseback riding, and volunteering at the school are activities Dr. Starr enjoys outside of work. She also likes to spend time with her husband Jay and three children, Abraham, Jonah and Ari.